Wilsons Sandbox

Posted: **Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:26 pm**

Hi all, I could really use some advice and experience. My KLR is apparently mixing its oil and coolant. I may have caused the problem by overfilling it with oil then starting it (no oil ever showed in the sight glass window -- I wonder if I have another problem?). Anyway, after looking at the service manual, I'm thinking it's the head gasket, based on where the oil is and where the coolant is. 1) Any diagnostic recommendations for determining exactly where the problem is, or is a tear-down the only way? 2) Has anybody else ever had this kind of problem? What was the final fix? 3) Any recommendations for a good mechanic in the Washington, DC, area? many thanks, Chris Chris Norloff wrote:

> It looks like I've got a serious problem. There's coolant in the oil. > > After replacing the oil and coolant, and adjusting the valves, I started > the bike and ran it for about 60 seconds. It sounded terrible. It was > hard to start, then sounded very "lumpy" when it started. It didn't want > to rev -- at 2000 rpm it just wasn't right so I shut it down. > > It sounded so bad I thought some timing was off. Could the cam sprockets > have slipped a tooth on the chain when I adjusted the exhaust valves? > When I removed the plug on the left end of the crankcase, to turn the > crankshaft, out poured horrible milky-white oil. I opened the radiator > and noted the coolant had drained out. > > > Anyway - now checking the manual for ideas. Water pump seals maybe? Head > gasket? > > Glad this happened here instead of on my Mexican trip ... Not impressed > at a failure like this with only 14,000 mi. on the bike. > > > thanks, > Chris > > > > Jeff Saline wrote: >> On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 11:30:15 -0500 Chris Norloff >> writes: >>> The shippers pick up the KLR this week for my Mexico trip so I'm >>> >>> changing the oil, adjusting the valves. I drained the oil, replaced >>> the >>> oil filter. >>> >>> I put in almost 3 qts of oil -- and there's NO oil showing in the >>> sight >>> glass. Even when I lean the bike to the right, no oil shows in the >>> sight >>> glass view window. >>> >>> Then I remove the plastic plug from the left end of the crankcase, >>> to >>> see the left end of the crankshaft, and it's full of oil. Oil just >>> floods right out. >>> >>> Anybody know why the oil isn't showing in the sight glass, and why >>> it >>> seems all on the left side? >>> >>> Do I have a serious problem here? >>> >>> thanks, >>> Chris >> <><><><><><><><><> >> <><><><><><><><><> >> >> Chris, >> >> Have you cranked the engine yet? I would drain 1/2 quart from the 3 >> quart fill and then crank the engine and run it for 30-60 seconds. Then >> I'd let it sit for 2-3 minutes and check the level. >> >> You know the oil is in there so it shouldn't be an issue. >> >> Best, >> >> Jeff Saline >> ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal >> Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org >> The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota >> 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT >> >> >> . >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Meet your storage needs. The home and garden directory. >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTGhs982uqSRCNSAJg5LhZREOnnPie7SiOYK4qfBAAileWTtp0vlzc/ >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com >> List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >> Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> > > > > ------------------------------------ > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Posted: **Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:59 pm**

Hi Chris, I can't think of anyway you could overfill the crankcase and not have it show up in the sight glass, my guess without actually seeing your bike is that the oil in the light you were working in was simple so clean and clear that you couldn't see it in the glass, I seem to remember that about 2 litre's will fill the engine to the top of the sight glass until the motor is started to fill the oil filter. In my opinion the first thing you have to do is to check the cam timing to ensure all is ok there after you shimmed the valves, I realize this is a pain but I assume that all was well before you started. The second thing I would do would be to perform a leak down test. If you don't have a leak down tester I don't think this is a real problem in your case to find what you are looking for, basically you just want to pressurize the cylinder to check for leakage, if you have a head gasket problem chances are that by putting air pressure into the cylinder it will escape through either the oil filler cap, or rad cap, both of which you need to remove before you start. There is a problem with this proceedure, it won't tell you if there is a head gasket problem it the problem is just between the oil and coolant passages. If you google cylinder leakdown test I'm sure you will find tons of hits on how to proceed if you're not already familiar with the test. When I say the above is the second thing I would check take this with a grain of salt, without knowing what you have checked already there maybe a lot of other things that may make sense to check first, I have access to the needed tools for a leakdown test so for me I there is no issue to easily perform the test....hope this helps.....Greg

--- On Sun, 2/22/09, Chris Norloff wrote: From: Chris Norloff Subject: [DSN_KLR650] mixing oil and coolant To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Received: Sunday, February 22, 2009, 8:25 PM Hi all, I could really use some advice and experience. My KLR is apparently mixing its oil and coolant. I may have caused the problem by overfilling it with oil then starting it (no oil ever showed in the sight glass window -- I wonder if I have another problem?). Anyway, after looking at the service manual, I'm thinking it's the head gasket, based on where the oil is and where the coolant is. 1) Any diagnostic recommendations for determining exactly where the problem is, or is a tear-down the only way? 2) Has anybody else ever had this kind of problem? What was the final fix? 3) Any recommendations for a good mechanic in the Washington, DC, area? many thanks, Chris Chris Norloff wrote: > It looks like I've got a serious problem. There's coolant in the oil. > > After replacing the oil and coolant, and adjusting the valves, I started > the bike and ran it for about 60 seconds. It sounded terrible. It was > hard to start, then sounded very "lumpy" when it started. It didn't want > to rev -- at 2000 rpm it just wasn't right so I shut it down. > > It sounded so bad I thought some timing was off. Could the cam sprockets > have slipped a tooth on the chain when I adjusted the exhaust valves? > When I removed the plug on the left end of the crankcase, to turn the > crankshaft, out poured horrible milky-white oil. I opened the radiator > and noted the coolant had drained out. > > > Anyway - now checking the manual for ideas. Water pump seals maybe? Head > gasket? > > Glad this happened here instead of on my Mexican trip ... Not impressed > at a failure like this with only 14,000 mi. on the bike. > > > thanks, > Chris > > > > Jeff Saline wrote: >> On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 11:30:15 -0500 Chris Norloff >> writes: >>> The shippers pick up the KLR this week for my Mexico trip so I'm >>> >>> changing the oil, adjusting the valves. I drained the oil, replaced >>> the >>> oil filter. >>> >>> I put in almost 3 qts of oil -- and there's NO oil showing in the >>> sight >>> glass. Even when I lean the bike to the right, no oil shows in the >>> sight >>> glass view window. >>> >>> Then I remove the plastic plug from the left end of the crankcase, >>> to >>> see the left end of the crankshaft, and it's full of oil. Oil just >>> floods right out. >>> >>> Anybody know why the oil isn't showing in the sight glass, and why >>> it >>> seems all on the left side? >>> >>> Do I have a serious problem here? >>> >>> thanks, >>> Chris >> <><><><><><> <><><> >> <><><><><><> <><><> >> >> Chris, >> >> Have you cranked the engine yet? I would drain 1/2 quart from the 3 >> quart fill and then crank the engine and run it for 30-60 seconds. Then >> I'd let it sit for 2-3 minutes and check the level. >> >> You know the oil is in there so it shouldn't be an issue. >> >> Best, >> >> Jeff Saline >> ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal >> Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads. org >> The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota >> 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT >> >> >> . >> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ >> Meet your storage needs. The home and garden directory. >> http://thirdpartyof fers.juno. com/TGL2141/ fc/BLSrjpTGhs982 uqSRCNSAJg5LhZRE OnnPie7SiOYK4qfB AAileWTtp0vlzc/ >> >> >> ------------ --------- --------- ------ >> >> List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews. com >> List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/ klr650faq. html >> Member Map at: http://www.frappr. com/dsnklr650Yah oo! Groups Links >> >> >> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews. com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/ klr650faq. html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr. com/dsnklr650Yah oo! Groups Links > > > __________________________________________________________________ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Posted: **Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:33 pm**

Is it possible that you have a blown mechanical seal between your water pump and engine case? There is an oil seal and a mechanical seal in the water pump shaft that keeps engine oil out of the coolant or vice versa. If blown, coolant might get into the oil and raise the level. As the clymer manual says: "The mechanical seal prevents coolant in the pump chamber from passing into the right crankcase cover (p 228). ________________________________ From: Greg May To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com; Chris Norloff Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:59:54 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] mixing oil and coolant Hi Chris, I can't think of anyway you could overfill the crankcase and not have it show up in the sight glass, my guess without actually seeing your bike is that the oil in the light you were working in was simple so clean and clear that you couldn't see it in the glass, I seem to remember that about 2 litre's will fill the engine to the top of the sight glass until the motor is started to fill the oil filter. In my opinion the first thing you have to do is to check the cam timing to ensure all is ok there after you shimmed the valves, I realize this is a pain but I assume that all was well before you started. The second thing I would do would be to perform a leak down test. If you don't have a leak down tester I don't think this is a real problem in your case to find what you are looking for, basically you just want to pressurize the cylinder to check for leakage, if you have a head gasket problem chances are that by putting air pressure into the cylinder it will escape through either the oil filler cap, or rad cap, both of which you need to remove before you start. There is a problem with this proceedure, it won't tell you if there is a head gasket problem it the problem is just between the oil and coolant passages. If you google cylinder leakdown test I'm sure you will find tons of hits on how to proceed if you're not already familiar with the test. When I say the above is the second thing I would check take this with a grain of salt, without knowing what you have checked already there maybe a lot of other things that may make sense to check first, I have access to the needed tools for a leakdown test so for me I there is no issue to easily perform the test....hope this helps.....Greg

--- On Sun, 2/22/09, Chris Norloff wrote: From: Chris Norloff Subject: [DSN_KLR650] mixing oil and coolant To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com Received: Sunday, February 22, 2009, 8:25 PM Hi all, I could really use some advice and experience. My KLR is apparently mixing its oil and coolant. I may have caused the problem by overfilling it with oil then starting it (no oil ever showed in the sight glass window -- I wonder if I have another problem?). Anyway, after looking at the service manual, I'm thinking it's the head gasket, based on where the oil is and where the coolant is. 1) Any diagnostic recommendations for determining exactly where the problem is, or is a tear-down the only way? 2) Has anybody else ever had this kind of problem? What was the final fix? 3) Any recommendations for a good mechanic in the Washington, DC, area? many thanks, Chris Chris Norloff wrote: > It looks like I've got a serious problem. There's coolant in the oil. > > After replacing the oil and coolant, and adjusting the valves, I started > the bike and ran it for about 60 seconds. It sounded terrible. It was > hard to start, then sounded very "lumpy" when it started. It didn't want > to rev -- at 2000 rpm it just wasn't right so I shut it down. > > It sounded so bad I thought some timing was off. Could the cam sprockets > have slipped a tooth on the chain when I adjusted the exhaust valves? > When I removed the plug on the left end of the crankcase, to turn the > crankshaft, out poured horrible milky-white oil. I opened the radiator > and noted the coolant had drained out. > > > Anyway - now checking the manual for ideas. Water pump seals maybe? Head > gasket? > > Glad this happened here instead of on my Mexican trip ... Not impressed > at a failure like this with only 14,000 mi. on the bike. > > > thanks, > Chris > > > > Jeff Saline wrote: >> On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 11:30:15 -0500 Chris Norloff >> writes: >>> The shippers pick up the KLR this week for my Mexico trip so I'm >>> >>> changing the oil, adjusting the valves. I drained the oil, replaced >>> the >>> oil filter. >>> >>> I put in almost 3 qts of oil -- and there's NO oil showing in the >>> sight >>> glass. Even when I lean the bike to the right, no oil shows in the >>> sight >>> glass view window. >>> >>> Then I remove the plastic plug from the left end of the crankcase, >>> to >>> see the left end of the crankshaft, and it's full of oil. Oil just >>> floods right out. >>> >>> Anybody know why the oil isn't showing in the sight glass, and why >>> it >>> seems all on the left side? >>> >>> Do I have a serious problem here? >>> >>> thanks, >>> Chris >> <><><><><><> <><><> >> <><><><><><> <><><> >> >> Chris, >> >> Have you cranked the engine yet? I would drain 1/2 quart from the 3 >> quart fill and then crank the engine and run it for 30-60 seconds. Then >> I'd let it sit for 2-3 minutes and check the level. >> >> You know the oil is in there so it shouldn't be an issue. >> >> Best, >> >> Jeff Saline >> ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal >> Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads. org >> The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota >> 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT >> >> >> . >> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ >> Meet your storage needs. The home and garden directory. >> http://thirdpartyof fers.juno. com/TGL2141/ fc/BLSrjpTGhs982 uqSRCNSAJg5LhZRE OnnPie7SiOYK4qfB AAileWTtp0vlzc/ >> >> >> ------------ --------- --------- ------ >> >> List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews. com >> List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/ klr650faq. html >> Member Map at: http://www.frappr. com/dsnklr650Yah oo! Groups Links >> >> >> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews. com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/ klr650faq. html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr. com/dsnklr650Yah oo! Groups Links > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers. yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Posted: **Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:59 pm**

This is an amaizing turn of events. If the antifreeze / water was in there before you added the oil, only the light colored antifreeze / water would have been visible in the sight-glass with the oil floating on top. How did that antifreeze / water get into the crankcase? I would drain the crankcase out into a pan and save everything and measure it. It should be something more than the 3 liters of oil you put in. Leave the drain plug out and see if the antifreeze / water is still leaking in. I would also check the levels in the radiator and the overflow tank. Again, with the crankcase drain plug out, removing the radiator / overflow caps will releave any vacuum in those and if there is a leaky water pump seal, you could start to see a greater flow of antifreeze coming out of drain hole. Back a step - if the fluid levels are down in the radiator, and / or the overflow tank, does it seem to be the same amount that you have determined to be the extra amount mixed in the oil? As you and others said, it may be a coolant pump seal leak but the coolant probably wouldn't leak into an empty crankcase unless the radiator / overflow caps were off for a long time. If the radiator / overflow tank levels are still at their normal / full positions then where did the extra fluid / water come from? Could it have gotten in there by mistake by a wife / girlfriend that doesn't want you to take this damn trip? Keep us up to date on this. I can't see how a slight valve timing mismatch could be the cause. Don R100, A6F

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Chris Norloff wrote: > > Hi all, I could really use some advice and experience. > > My KLR is apparently mixing its oil and coolant. I may have caused the > problem by overfilling it with oil then starting it (no oil ever showed > in the sight glass window -- I wonder if I have another problem?). > > Anyway, after looking at the service manual, I'm thinking it's the head > gasket, based on where the oil is and where the coolant is. > > 1) Any diagnostic recommendations for determining exactly where the > problem is, or is a tear-down the only way? > > 2) Has anybody else ever had this kind of problem? What was the final fix? > > 3) Any recommendations for a good mechanic in the Washington, DC, area? > > many thanks, > Chris > > > Chris Norloff wrote: > > It looks like I've got a serious problem. There's coolant in the oil. > > > > After replacing the oil and coolant, and adjusting the valves, I started > > the bike and ran it for about 60 seconds. It sounded terrible. It was > > hard to start, then sounded very "lumpy" when it started. It didn't want > > to rev -- at 2000 rpm it just wasn't right so I shut it down. > > > > It sounded so bad I thought some timing was off. Could the cam sprockets > > have slipped a tooth on the chain when I adjusted the exhaust valves? > > When I removed the plug on the left end of the crankcase, to turn the > > crankshaft, out poured horrible milky-white oil. I opened the radiator > > and noted the coolant had drained out. > > > > > > Anyway - now checking the manual for ideas. Water pump seals maybe? Head > > gasket? > > > > Glad this happened here instead of on my Mexican trip ... Not impressed > > at a failure like this with only 14,000 mi. on the bike. > > > > > > thanks, > > Chris > > > > > > > > Jeff Saline wrote: > >> On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 11:30:15 -0500 Chris Norloff > >> writes: > >>> The shippers pick up the KLR this week for my Mexico trip so I'm > >>> > >>> changing the oil, adjusting the valves. I drained the oil, replaced > >>> the > >>> oil filter. > >>> > >>> I put in almost 3 qts of oil -- and there's NO oil showing in the > >>> sight > >>> glass. Even when I lean the bike to the right, no oil shows in the > >>> sight > >>> glass view window. > >>> > >>> Then I remove the plastic plug from the left end of the crankcase, > >>> to > >>> see the left end of the crankshaft, and it's full of oil. Oil just > >>> floods right out. > >>> > >>> Anybody know why the oil isn't showing in the sight glass, and why > >>> it > >>> seems all on the left side? > >>> > >>> Do I have a serious problem here? > >>> > >>> thanks, > >>> Chris > >> <><><><><><><><><> > >> <><><><><><><><><> > >> > >> Chris, > >> > >> Have you cranked the engine yet? I would drain 1/2 quart from the 3 > >> quart fill and then crank the engine and run it for 30-60 seconds. Then > >> I'd let it sit for 2-3 minutes and check the level. > >> > >> You know the oil is in there so it shouldn't be an issue. > >> > >> Best, > >> > >> Jeff Saline > >> ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal > >> Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org > >> The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota > >> 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT > >> > >> > >> . > >> ____________________________________________________________ > >> Meet your storage needs. The home and garden directory. > >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTGhs982uqSRCNSAJg5Lh ZREOnnPie7SiOYK4qfBAAileWTtp0vlzc/ > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------ > >> > >> List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > >> List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > >> Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Posted: **Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:42 pm**

Thanks everybody. I believe the most likely cause is failed water pump seals. I remembered some mystery spots on my right boot a couple weeks ago, but I never figured out if it was a leak or just road mess. That may have been the water pump seals starting to go. KLRCary said the KLR head gasket doesn't have oil passages in it, so that's unlikely the cause. http://www.klr650.net/forums/showthread.php?t=47548&highlight=oil+coolant And I did check the valve timing -- the camshaft sprockets line up fine. Calm ... calm ... take a few breaths. And maybe I can still salvage this trip

Chris Spike55 wrote:

> This is an amaizing turn of events. If the antifreeze / water was in > there before you added the oil, only the light colored antifreeze / > water would have been visible in the sight-glass with the oil > floating on top. How did that antifreeze / water get into the > crankcase? > > I would drain the crankcase out into a pan and save everything and > measure it. It should be something more than the 3 liters of oil you > put in. Leave the drain plug out and see if the antifreeze / water > is still leaking in. I would also check the levels in the radiator > and the overflow tank. Again, with the crankcase drain plug out, > removing the radiator / overflow caps will releave any vacuum in > those and if there is a leaky water pump seal, you could start to see > a greater flow of antifreeze coming out of drain hole. > > Back a step - if the fluid levels are down in the radiator, and / or > the overflow tank, does it seem to be the same amount that you have > determined to be the extra amount mixed in the oil? > > As you and others said, it may be a coolant pump seal leak but the > coolant probably wouldn't leak into an empty crankcase unless the > radiator / overflow caps were off for a long time. > > If the radiator / overflow tank levels are still at their normal / > full positions then where did the extra fluid / water come from? > Could it have gotten in there by mistake by a wife / girlfriend that > doesn't want you to take this damn trip? > > Keep us up to date on this. I can't see how a slight valve timing > mismatch could be the cause. > > Don R100, A6F > > > > > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Chris Norloff wrote: >> Hi all, I could really use some advice and experience. >> >> My KLR is apparently mixing its oil and coolant. I may have caused > the >> problem by overfilling it with oil then starting it (no oil ever > showed >> in the sight glass window -- I wonder if I have another problem?). >> >> Anyway, after looking at the service manual, I'm thinking it's the > head >> gasket, based on where the oil is and where the coolant is. >> >> 1) Any diagnostic recommendations for determining exactly where the >> problem is, or is a tear-down the only way? >> >> 2) Has anybody else ever had this kind of problem? What was the > final fix? >> 3) Any recommendations for a good mechanic in the Washington, DC, > area? >> many thanks, >> Chris >> >> >> Chris Norloff wrote: >>> It looks like I've got a serious problem. There's coolant in the > oil. >>> After replacing the oil and coolant, and adjusting the valves, I > started >>> the bike and ran it for about 60 seconds. It sounded terrible. It > was >>> hard to start, then sounded very "lumpy" when it started. It > didn't want >>> to rev -- at 2000 rpm it just wasn't right so I shut it down. >>> >>> It sounded so bad I thought some timing was off. Could the cam > sprockets >>> have slipped a tooth on the chain when I adjusted the exhaust > valves? >>> When I removed the plug on the left end of the crankcase, to turn > the >>> crankshaft, out poured horrible milky-white oil. I opened the > radiator >>> and noted the coolant had drained out. >>> >>> >>> Anyway - now checking the manual for ideas. Water pump seals > maybe? Head >>> gasket? >>> >>> Glad this happened here instead of on my Mexican trip ... Not > impressed >>> at a failure like this with only 14,000 mi. on the bike. >>> >>> >>> thanks, >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> >>> Jeff Saline wrote: >>>> On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 11:30:15 -0500 Chris Norloff >>>> writes: >>>>> The shippers pick up the KLR this week for my Mexico trip > so I'm >>>>> changing the oil, adjusting the valves. I drained the oil, > replaced >>>>> the >>>>> oil filter. >>>>> >>>>> I put in almost 3 qts of oil -- and there's NO oil showing in > the >>>>> sight >>>>> glass. Even when I lean the bike to the right, no oil shows in > the >>>>> sight >>>>> glass view window. >>>>> >>>>> Then I remove the plastic plug from the left end of the > crankcase, >>>>> to >>>>> see the left end of the crankshaft, and it's full of oil. Oil > just >>>>> floods right out. >>>>> >>>>> Anybody know why the oil isn't showing in the sight glass, and > why >>>>> it >>>>> seems all on the left side? >>>>> >>>>> Do I have a serious problem here? >>>>> >>>>> thanks, >>>>> Chris >>>> <><><><><><><><><> >>>> <><><><><><><><><> >>>> >>>> Chris, >>>> >>>> Have you cranked the engine yet? I would drain 1/2 quart from > the 3 >>>> quart fill and then crank the engine and run it for 30-60 > seconds. Then >>>> I'd let it sit for 2-3 minutes and check the level. >>>> >>>> You know the oil is in there so it shouldn't be an issue. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Jeff Saline >>>> ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal >>>> Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org >>>> The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota >>>> 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT >>>> >>>> >>>> . >>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>> Meet your storage needs. The home and garden directory. >>>> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTGhs982uqSRCNSAJg5Lh > ZREOnnPie7SiOYK4qfBAAileWTtp0vlzc/ >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com >>>> List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >>>> Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo! Groups Links >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com >>> List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >>> Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Posted: **Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:06 am**

One quick note.... Ethylene glycol in the sump is an unmitigated disaster as far as oil chemistry and lubricity is concerned. If you're pretty sure that there's a seal failure, I'd urge you get the contamined oil out of there ASAP and not run the engine until it's out and some fresh oil goes in. RM On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:41:41 -0500, "Chris Norloff" said:

> Thanks everybody. I believe the most likely cause is failed water pump > seals. I remembered some mystery spots on my right boot a couple weeks > ago, but I never figured out if it was a leak or just road mess. That > may have been the water pump seals starting to go. > > KLRCary said the KLR head gasket doesn't have oil passages in it, so > that's unlikely the cause. > http://www.klr650.net/forums/showthread.php?t=47548&highlight=oil+coolant > > And I did check the valve timing -- the camshaft sprockets line up fine. > > Calm ... calm ... take a few breaths. And maybe I can still salvage this > trip > > Chris > > > > > Spike55 wrote: > > This is an amaizing turn of events. If the antifreeze / water was in > > there before you added the oil, only the light colored antifreeze / > > water would have been visible in the sight-glass with the oil > > floating on top. How did that antifreeze / water get into the > > crankcase? > > > > I would drain the crankcase out into a pan and save everything and > > measure it. It should be something more than the 3 liters of oil you > > put in. Leave the drain plug out and see if the antifreeze / water > > is still leaking in. I would also check the levels in the radiator > > and the overflow tank. Again, with the crankcase drain plug out, > > removing the radiator / overflow caps will releave any vacuum in > > those and if there is a leaky water pump seal, you could start to see > > a greater flow of antifreeze coming out of drain hole. > > > > Back a step - if the fluid levels are down in the radiator, and / or > > the overflow tank, does it seem to be the same amount that you have > > determined to be the extra amount mixed in the oil? > > > > As you and others said, it may be a coolant pump seal leak but the > > coolant probably wouldn't leak into an empty crankcase unless the > > radiator / overflow caps were off for a long time. > > > > If the radiator / overflow tank levels are still at their normal / > > full positions then where did the extra fluid / water come from? > > Could it have gotten in there by mistake by a wife / girlfriend that > > doesn't want you to take this damn trip? > > > > Keep us up to date on this. I can't see how a slight valve timing > > mismatch could be the cause. > > > > Don R100, A6F > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Chris Norloff wrote: > >> Hi all, I could really use some advice and experience. > >> > >> My KLR is apparently mixing its oil and coolant. I may have caused > > the > >> problem by overfilling it with oil then starting it (no oil ever > > showed > >> in the sight glass window -- I wonder if I have another problem?). > >> > >> Anyway, after looking at the service manual, I'm thinking it's the > > head > >> gasket, based on where the oil is and where the coolant is. > >> > >> 1) Any diagnostic recommendations for determining exactly where the > >> problem is, or is a tear-down the only way? > >> > >> 2) Has anybody else ever had this kind of problem? What was the > > final fix? > >> 3) Any recommendations for a good mechanic in the Washington, DC, > > area? > >> many thanks, > >> Chris > >> > >> > >> Chris Norloff wrote: > >>> It looks like I've got a serious problem. There's coolant in the > > oil. > >>> After replacing the oil and coolant, and adjusting the valves, I > > started > >>> the bike and ran it for about 60 seconds. It sounded terrible. It > > was > >>> hard to start, then sounded very "lumpy" when it started. It > > didn't want > >>> to rev -- at 2000 rpm it just wasn't right so I shut it down. > >>> > >>> It sounded so bad I thought some timing was off. Could the cam > > sprockets > >>> have slipped a tooth on the chain when I adjusted the exhaust > > valves? > >>> When I removed the plug on the left end of the crankcase, to turn > > the > >>> crankshaft, out poured horrible milky-white oil. I opened the > > radiator > >>> and noted the coolant had drained out. > >>> > >>> > >>> Anyway - now checking the manual for ideas. Water pump seals > > maybe? Head > >>> gasket? > >>> > >>> Glad this happened here instead of on my Mexican trip ... Not > > impressed > >>> at a failure like this with only 14,000 mi. on the bike. > >>> > >>> > >>> thanks, > >>> Chris > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Jeff Saline wrote: > >>>> On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 11:30:15 -0500 Chris Norloff > >>>> writes: > >>>>> The shippers pick up the KLR this week for my Mexico trip > > so I'm > >>>>> changing the oil, adjusting the valves. I drained the oil, > > replaced > >>>>> the > >>>>> oil filter. > >>>>> > >>>>> I put in almost 3 qts of oil -- and there's NO oil showing in > > the > >>>>> sight > >>>>> glass. Even when I lean the bike to the right, no oil shows in > > the > >>>>> sight > >>>>> glass view window. > >>>>> > >>>>> Then I remove the plastic plug from the left end of the > > crankcase, > >>>>> to > >>>>> see the left end of the crankshaft, and it's full of oil. Oil > > just > >>>>> floods right out. > >>>>> > >>>>> Anybody know why the oil isn't showing in the sight glass, and > > why > >>>>> it > >>>>> seems all on the left side? > >>>>> > >>>>> Do I have a serious problem here? > >>>>> > >>>>> thanks, > >>>>> Chris > >>>> <><><><><><><><><> > >>>> <><><><><><><><><> > >>>> > >>>> Chris, > >>>> > >>>> Have you cranked the engine yet? I would drain 1/2 quart from > > the 3 > >>>> quart fill and then crank the engine and run it for 30-60 > > seconds. Then > >>>> I'd let it sit for 2-3 minutes and check the level. > >>>> > >>>> You know the oil is in there so it shouldn't be an issue. > >>>> > >>>> Best, > >>>> > >>>> Jeff Saline > >>>> ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal > >>>> Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org > >>>> The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota > >>>> 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> . > >>>> ____________________________________________________________ > >>>> Meet your storage needs. The home and garden directory. > >>>> > > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTGhs982uqSRCNSAJg5Lh > > ZREOnnPie7SiOYK4qfBAAileWTtp0vlzc/ > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------------ > >>>> > >>>> List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > >>>> List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > >>>> Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo! Groups Links > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------ > >>> > >>> List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > >>> List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > >>> Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo! Groups Links > >>> > >>> > >>> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Posted: **Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:15 am**

Thank you everybody for the ideas. It feels much less lonely, but I'm feeling dumb. I drained about 6 qts of oil out of the engine last night. Yes, six. I had put a couple quarts in, I thought, from the last of my 10W-40. When I got more oil I just added a bit at a time, while doing other tasks, to get it up to level. But apparently I was looking right through the clean oil. This is very embarassing. So! When I ran the engine, the 'milkyness' I saw was undoubtedly froth due in part to having too much oil in the engine. Interestingly, the 6 qts in the drain pan did not separate overnight into oil/water. When I poured it into jugs to measure it it all appeared to be good oil. Today I *carefully* added a bit more than 2 quarts oil to the engine (because I didn't remove the filter). Then I drained a quart of coolant from the drain hole at the bottom of the water pump. A quart is what I had put in when I changed the coolant, a couple days ago, so that's good. I filled the radiator slowly with distilled water and it took a quart. I then ran the engine for 5-7 minutes. It sounded a little lumpy then settled down to a good KLR thump. I held it at 2,000 rpm and slowly worked the choke off. The temperature gauge came up about a third of the way and then I got 5 or 6 drops of coolant coming out of the water pump weep hole. So I definitely need new seals. I see Fred has them, and I've read Marknet's replacement procedures. I drained the oil and it was definitely milky. When I drained the coolant I still got about a quart, so it's not a big leak between the oil and coolant -- just like a water pump seal I'm hoping. So I might still be able to salvage this trip. I'll call Fred to see how fast he can get the parts here. thank you everybody, Chris P.S. I've also been researching renting bikes in or for Mexico. US rentals wth Mexico access are limited, and you have the extra paperwork to deal with (with them and at the border). They also typically want a very large deposit. I found rental bikes in Puerto Escondido (125, 250, and a 400cc automatic), and rental Harleys in Cancun, Mazatlan, and Los Cabos in Baja. I learned of Oscar Calderon in Mexico City but don't have contact info yet. And possibly Alberto Clave in San Miguel de Allende - who runs a shop (Motos y Mas) and is connected with a local rider group who likes visitors. Apparently KLR's are quite expensive in Mexico, costing about US$8,000. Chris Norloff wrote:

> Hi all, I could really use some advice and experience. > > My KLR is apparently mixing its oil and coolant. I may have caused the > problem by overfilling it with oil then starting it (no oil ever showed > in the sight glass window -- I wonder if I have another problem?). > > Anyway, after looking at the service manual, I'm thinking it's the head > gasket, based on where the oil is and where the coolant is. > > 1) Any diagnostic recommendations for determining exactly where the > problem is, or is a tear-down the only way? > > 2) Has anybody else ever had this kind of problem? What was the final fix? > > 3) Any recommendations for a good mechanic in the Washington, DC, area? > > many thanks, > Chris > > > Chris Norloff wrote: >> It looks like I've got a serious problem. There's coolant in the oil. >> >> After replacing the oil and coolant, and adjusting the valves, I started >> the bike and ran it for about 60 seconds. It sounded terrible. It was >> hard to start, then sounded very "lumpy" when it started. It didn't want >> to rev -- at 2000 rpm it just wasn't right so I shut it down. >> >> It sounded so bad I thought some timing was off. Could the cam sprockets >> have slipped a tooth on the chain when I adjusted the exhaust valves? >> When I removed the plug on the left end of the crankcase, to turn the >> crankshaft, out poured horrible milky-white oil. I opened the radiator >> and noted the coolant had drained out. >> >> >> Anyway - now checking the manual for ideas. Water pump seals maybe? Head >> gasket? >> >> Glad this happened here instead of on my Mexican trip ... Not impressed >> at a failure like this with only 14,000 mi. on the bike. >> >> >> thanks, >> Chris >> >> >> >> Jeff Saline wrote: >>> On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 11:30:15 -0500 Chris Norloff >>> writes: >>>> The shippers pick up the KLR this week for my Mexico trip so I'm >>>> >>>> changing the oil, adjusting the valves. I drained the oil, replaced >>>> the >>>> oil filter. >>>> >>>> I put in almost 3 qts of oil -- and there's NO oil showing in the >>>> sight >>>> glass. Even when I lean the bike to the right, no oil shows in the >>>> sight >>>> glass view window. >>>> >>>> Then I remove the plastic plug from the left end of the crankcase, >>>> to >>>> see the left end of the crankshaft, and it's full of oil. Oil just >>>> floods right out. >>>> >>>> Anybody know why the oil isn't showing in the sight glass, and why >>>> it >>>> seems all on the left side? >>>> >>>> Do I have a serious problem here? >>>> >>>> thanks, >>>> Chris >>> <><><><><><><><><> >>> <><><><><><><><><> >>> >>> Chris, >>> >>> Have you cranked the engine yet? I would drain 1/2 quart from the 3 >>> quart fill and then crank the engine and run it for 30-60 seconds. Then >>> I'd let it sit for 2-3 minutes and check the level. >>> >>> You know the oil is in there so it shouldn't be an issue. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Jeff Saline >>> ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal >>> Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org >>> The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota >>> 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT >>> >>> >>> . >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> Meet your storage needs. The home and garden directory. >>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTGhs982uqSRCNSAJg5LhZREOnnPie7SiOYK4qfBAAileWTtp0vlzc/ >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com >>> List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >>> Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com >> List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >> Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> > > > > ------------------------------------ > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Posted: **Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:37 am**

The benefit of being embarrassed is that a lesson is always learned, and in this case the blush will go away without draining your wallet as well as the oil sump.. No-one else on this list has ever done anything dumb, today. Glad it worked out, DC Chris Norloff wrote:

> > Thank you everybody for the ideas. It feels much less lonely, but I'm > feeling dumb. > > I drained about 6 qts of oil out of the engine last night. Yes, six. I > had put a couple quarts in, I thought, from the last of my 10W-40. When > I got more oil I just added a bit at a time, while doing other tasks, to > get it up to level. But apparently I was looking right through the clean > oil. This is very embarassing. > > So! When I ran the engine, the 'milkyness' I saw was undoubtedly froth > due in part to having too much oil in the engine. Interestingly, the 6 > qts in the drain pan did not separate overnight into oil/water. When I > poured it into jugs to measure it it all appeared to be good oil. > > Today I *carefully* added a bit more than 2 quarts oil to the engine > (because I didn't remove the filter). > > Then I drained a quart of coolant from the drain hole at the bottom of > the water pump. A quart is what I had put in when I changed the coolant, > a couple days ago, so that's good. I filled the radiator slowly with > distilled water and it took a quart. > > I then ran the engine for 5-7 minutes. It sounded a little lumpy then > settled down to a good KLR thump. I held it at 2,000 rpm and slowly > worked the choke off. The temperature gauge came up about a third of the > way and then I got 5 or 6 drops of coolant coming out of the water pump > weep hole. So I definitely need new seals. I see Fred has them, and I've > read Marknet's replacement procedures. > > I drained the oil and it was definitely milky. When I drained the > coolant I still got about a quart, so it's not a big leak between the > oil and coolant -- just like a water pump seal I'm hoping. > > So I might still be able to salvage this trip. I'll call Fred to see how > fast he can get the parts here. > > thank you everybody, > Chris > > P.S. I've also been researching renting bikes in or for Mexico. US > rentals wth Mexico access are limited, and you have the extra paperwork > to deal with (with them and at the border). They also typically want a > very large deposit. > > I found rental bikes in Puerto Escondido (125, 250, and a 400cc > automatic), and rental Harleys in Cancun, Mazatlan, and Los Cabos in > Baja. I learned of Oscar Calderon in Mexico City but don't have contact > info yet. And possibly Alberto Clave in San Miguel de Allende - who runs > a shop (Motos y Mas) and is connected with a local rider group who likes > visitors. Apparently KLR's are quite expensive in Mexico, costing about > US$8,000. > > Chris Norloff wrote: > > Hi all, I could really use some advice and experience. > > > > My KLR is apparently mixing its oil and coolant. I may have caused the > > problem by overfilling it with oil then starting it (no oil ever showed > > in the sight glass window -- I wonder if I have another problem?). > > > > Anyway, after looking at the service manual, I'm thinking it's the head > > gasket, based on where the oil is and where the coolant is. > > > > 1) Any diagnostic recommendations for determining exactly where the > > problem is, or is a tear-down the only way? > > > > 2) Has anybody else ever had this kind of problem? What was the > final fix? > > > > 3) Any recommendations for a good mechanic in the Washington, DC, area? > > > > many thanks, > > Chris > > > > > > Chris Norloff wrote: > >> It looks like I've got a serious problem. There's coolant in the oil. > >> > >> After replacing the oil and coolant, and adjusting the valves, I > started > >> the bike and ran it for about 60 seconds. It sounded terrible. It was > >> hard to start, then sounded very "lumpy" when it started. It didn't > want > >> to rev -- at 2000 rpm it just wasn't right so I shut it down. > >> > >> It sounded so bad I thought some timing was off. Could the cam > sprockets > >> have slipped a tooth on the chain when I adjusted the exhaust valves? > >> When I removed the plug on the left end of the crankcase, to turn the > >> crankshaft, out poured horrible milky-white oil. I opened the radiator > >> and noted the coolant had drained out. > >> > >> > >> Anyway - now checking the manual for ideas. Water pump seals maybe? > Head > >> gasket? > >> > >> Glad this happened here instead of on my Mexican trip ... Not > impressed > >> at a failure like this with only 14,000 mi. on the bike. > >> > >> > >> thanks, > >> Chris > >> > >> > >> > >> Jeff Saline wrote: > >>> On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 11:30:15 -0500 Chris Norloff > > > >>> writes: > >>>> The shippers pick up the KLR this week for my Mexico trip so I'm > >>>> > >>>> changing the oil, adjusting the valves. I drained the oil, replaced > >>>> the > >>>> oil filter. > >>>> > >>>> I put in almost 3 qts of oil -- and there's NO oil showing in the > >>>> sight > >>>> glass. Even when I lean the bike to the right, no oil shows in the > >>>> sight > >>>> glass view window. > >>>> > >>>> Then I remove the plastic plug from the left end of the crankcase, > >>>> to > >>>> see the left end of the crankshaft, and it's full of oil. Oil just > >>>> floods right out. > >>>> > >>>> Anybody know why the oil isn't showing in the sight glass, and why > >>>> it > >>>> seems all on the left side? > >>>> > >>>> Do I have a serious problem here? > >>>> > >>>> thanks, > >>>> Chris > >>> <><><><><><><><><> > >>> <><><><><><><><><> > >>> > >>> Chris, > >>> > >>> Have you cranked the engine yet? I would drain 1/2 quart from the 3 > >>> quart fill and then crank the engine and run it for 30-60 seconds. > Then > >>> I'd let it sit for 2-3 minutes and check the level. > >>> > >>> You know the oil is in there so it shouldn't be an issue. > >>> > >>> Best, > >>> > >>> Jeff Saline > >>> ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal > >>> Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org > >>> The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota > >>> 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT > >>> > >>> > >>> . > >>> __________________________________________________________ > >>> Meet your storage needs. The home and garden directory. > >>> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTGhs982uqSRCNSAJg5LhZREOnnPie7SiOYK4qfBAAileWTtp0vlzc/ > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTGhs982uqSRCNSAJg5LhZREOnnPie7SiOYK4qfBAAileWTtp0vlzc/> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------ > >>> > >>> List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > >>> List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > >>> Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo > http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo>! Groups Links > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------ > >> > >> List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > >> List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > >> Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo > http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo>! Groups Links > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo > http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo>! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

Posted: **Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:22 am**

Update: I drained the oil used for the test run (where I noted the coolant dripping out of the water pump weep hole). The oil definitely looked cloudy/milky when I drained it. But even after sitting overnight, there was no visible oil/coolant separation. I poured it into a clear jug, and there's still no visible oil/coolant separation -- so now I'm wondering if what I saw was froth left over from running the engine with too much oil in it. I clearly need water pump seals, which Fred is expressing to me (thanks Fred!). But I'm wondering if I'm NOT getting coolant into the oil. Wednesday night's test run should tell. I'm also rigging up a way to pressurize the coolant system to test it. Half-inch PVC pipe fits well into the coolant hoses, so disconnect them from the water pump, connect them with a U-shaped PVC pipe, attach a valve stem, and see if it will hold a little pressure (no more than 10psi I'm thinking -- I'll check what it's rated for). That'll tell me if I have a leak somewhere else. Thanks for the help, Chris D Critchley wrote:

> The benefit of being embarrassed is that a lesson is always learned, and > in this case the blush will go away without draining your wallet as > well as the oil sump.. > No-one else on this list has ever done anything dumb, today. > Glad it worked out, > DC > > Chris Norloff wrote: > >> Thank you everybody for the ideas. It feels much less lonely, but I'm >> feeling dumb. >> >> I drained about 6 qts of oil out of the engine last night. Yes, six. I >> had put a couple quarts in, I thought, from the last of my 10W-40. When >> I got more oil I just added a bit at a time, while doing other tasks, to >> get it up to level. But apparently I was looking right through the clean >> oil. This is very embarassing. >> >> So! When I ran the engine, the 'milkyness' I saw was undoubtedly froth >> due in part to having too much oil in the engine. Interestingly, the 6 >> qts in the drain pan did not separate overnight into oil/water. When I >> poured it into jugs to measure it it all appeared to be good oil. >> >> Today I *carefully* added a bit more than 2 quarts oil to the engine >> (because I didn't remove the filter). >> >> Then I drained a quart of coolant from the drain hole at the bottom of >> the water pump. A quart is what I had put in when I changed the coolant, >> a couple days ago, so that's good. I filled the radiator slowly with >> distilled water and it took a quart. >> >> I then ran the engine for 5-7 minutes. It sounded a little lumpy then >> settled down to a good KLR thump. I held it at 2,000 rpm and slowly >> worked the choke off. The temperature gauge came up about a third of the >> way and then I got 5 or 6 drops of coolant coming out of the water pump >> weep hole. So I definitely need new seals. I see Fred has them, and I've >> read Marknet's replacement procedures. >> >> I drained the oil and it was definitely milky. When I drained the >> coolant I still got about a quart, so it's not a big leak between the >> oil and coolant -- just like a water pump seal I'm hoping. >> >> So I might still be able to salvage this trip. I'll call Fred to see how >> fast he can get the parts here. >> >> thank you everybody, >> Chris >> >> P.S. I've also been researching renting bikes in or for Mexico. US >> rentals wth Mexico access are limited, and you have the extra paperwork >> to deal with (with them and at the border). They also typically want a >> very large deposit. >> >> I found rental bikes in Puerto Escondido (125, 250, and a 400cc >> automatic), and rental Harleys in Cancun, Mazatlan, and Los Cabos in >> Baja. I learned of Oscar Calderon in Mexico City but don't have contact >> info yet. And possibly Alberto Clave in San Miguel de Allende - who runs >> a shop (Motos y Mas) and is connected with a local rider group who likes >> visitors. Apparently KLR's are quite expensive in Mexico, costing about >> US$8,000. >> >> Chris Norloff wrote: >> >>> Hi all, I could really use some advice and experience. >>> >>> My KLR is apparently mixing its oil and coolant. I may have caused the >>> problem by overfilling it with oil then starting it (no oil ever showed >>> in the sight glass window -- I wonder if I have another problem?). >>> >>> Anyway, after looking at the service manual, I'm thinking it's the head >>> gasket, based on where the oil is and where the coolant is. >>> >>> 1) Any diagnostic recommendations for determining exactly where the >>> problem is, or is a tear-down the only way? >>> >>> 2) Has anybody else ever had this kind of problem? What was the >>> >> final fix? >> >>> 3) Any recommendations for a good mechanic in the Washington, DC, area? >>> >>> many thanks, >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> Chris Norloff wrote: >>> >>>> It looks like I've got a serious problem. There's coolant in the oil. >>>> >>>> After replacing the oil and coolant, and adjusting the valves, I >>>> >> started >> >>>> the bike and ran it for about 60 seconds. It sounded terrible. It was >>>> hard to start, then sounded very "lumpy" when it started. It didn't >>>> >> want >> >>>> to rev -- at 2000 rpm it just wasn't right so I shut it down. >>>> >>>> It sounded so bad I thought some timing was off. Could the cam >>>> >> sprockets >> >>>> have slipped a tooth on the chain when I adjusted the exhaust valves? >>>> When I removed the plug on the left end of the crankcase, to turn the >>>> crankshaft, out poured horrible milky-white oil. I opened the radiator >>>> and noted the coolant had drained out. >>>> >>>> >>>> Anyway - now checking the manual for ideas. Water pump seals maybe? >>>> >> Head >> >>>> gasket? >>>> >>>> Glad this happened here instead of on my Mexican trip ... Not >>>> >> impressed >> >>>> at a failure like this with only 14,000 mi. on the bike. >>>> >>>> >>>> thanks, >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jeff Saline wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 11:30:15 -0500 Chris Norloff >>>>> >> > >> >>>>> writes: >>>>> >>>>>> The shippers pick up the KLR this week for my Mexico trip so I'm >>>>>> >>>>>> changing the oil, adjusting the valves. I drained the oil, replaced >>>>>> the >>>>>> oil filter. >>>>>> >>>>>> I put in almost 3 qts of oil -- and there's NO oil showing in the >>>>>> sight >>>>>> glass. Even when I lean the bike to the right, no oil shows in the >>>>>> sight >>>>>> glass view window. >>>>>> >>>>>> Then I remove the plastic plug from the left end of the crankcase, >>>>>> to >>>>>> see the left end of the crankshaft, and it's full of oil. Oil just >>>>>> floods right out. >>>>>> >>>>>> Anybody know why the oil isn't showing in the sight glass, and why >>>>>> it >>>>>> seems all on the left side? >>>>>> >>>>>> Do I have a serious problem here? >>>>>> >>>>>> thanks, >>>>>> Chris >>>>>> >>>>> <><><><><><><><><> >>>>> <><><><><><><><><> >>>>> >>>>> Chris, >>>>> >>>>> Have you cranked the engine yet? I would drain 1/2 quart from the 3 >>>>> quart fill and then crank the engine and run it for 30-60 seconds. >>>>> >> Then >> >>>>> I'd let it sit for 2-3 minutes and check the level. >>>>> >>>>> You know the oil is in there so it shouldn't be an issue. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Jeff Saline >>>>> ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal >>>>> Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org >>>>> The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota >>>>> 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> . >>>>> __________________________________________________________ >>>>> Meet your storage needs. The home and garden directory. >>>>> >>>>> >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTGhs982uqSRCNSAJg5LhZREOnnPie7SiOYK4qfBAAileWTtp0vlzc/ >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTGhs982uqSRCNSAJg5LhZREOnnPie7SiOYK4qfBAAileWTtp0vlzc/> >> >>>>> ------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com >>>>> List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >>>>> Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo >>>>> >> http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo>! Groups Links >> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> ------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com >>>> List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >>>> Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo >>>> >> http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo>! Groups Links >> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com >>> List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >>> Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo >>> >> http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo>! Groups Links >> >>> >>> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Posted: **Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:50 am**

On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 10:23:41 -0500 Chris Norloff writes:

> Update: I drained the oil used for the test run (where I noted the > coolant dripping out of the water pump weep hole). The oil > definitely > looked cloudy/milky when I drained it. But even after sitting > overnight, there was no visible oil/coolant separation. I poured it > into > a clear jug, and there's still no visible oil/coolant separation -- > so > now I'm wondering if what I saw was froth left over from running the > > engine with too much oil in it. > > I clearly need water pump seals, which Fred is expressing to me > (thanks > Fred!). But I'm wondering if I'm NOT getting coolant into the oil. > Wednesday night's test run should tell. > > I'm also rigging up a way to pressurize the coolant system to test > it. > Half-inch PVC pipe fits well into the coolant hoses, so disconnect > them > from the water pump, connect them with a U-shaped PVC pipe, attach a > > valve stem, and see if it will hold a little pressure (no more than > > 10psi I'm thinking -- I'll check what it's rated for). That'll tell > me > if I have a leak somewhere else. > > Thanks for the help, > Chris

<><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><> Chris, Make sure the coolant system has fluid in it when you do your pressure test. The less air you use the better as compressed air will act as a spring. If you can include the radiator and cap in your test the cap can act as a pressure relief valve in case you get a bit too much pressure in the system. For whatever it's worth... if you disconnect the hoses from the coolant pump you are taking one of the prime areas for leaks out of the test. Best, Jeff ____________________________________________________________ Put your loved ones in good hands with quality senior assisted living. Click now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTJkoJqPARlvNelAMMPHy6oasXoz4e7sA8Avg0Cl26vFPfTbtdRGEI/

Wilsons Sandbox

odometer needed

mixing oil and coolant

mixing oil and coolant

mixing oil and coolant

mixing oil and coolant

mixing oil and coolant

mixing oil and coolant

mixing oil and coolant

mixing oil and coolant

mixing oil and coolant

mixing oil and coolant