three weeks to change a tire/wheel.

[nakedwaterskier]

"Saw your article on using WD-40 for chains and you asked for evidence of potential harm that WD-40 can do, so am attaching a photo. This photo is of a bearing surface from an airplane. This is a ball and races in a sealed bearing that had been subjected to regular use of WD-40 for a year or two. The grease was NOT cleaned out before taking this photo - there simply is no grease and the brownish tint is really rust. The ball had grooves (visible) and was shaped like a potato chip. The races had not evenly worn (see sectioned edge) and were rutted in spots, although neither shows too well. We learned that WD-40 is really good for the light uses that it was intended for and that needs to be emphasized. However, it is largely a penetrant, which will do just that! Once it penetrates into the sealed area, it dissolves the petroleum out of the grease, leaving the clay binders. What's left in the bearing is essentially dirt that cakes up, causing the balls to skid. Without the petroleum, the bearing will also rust. The reason that kerosene and diesel fuel are still favorites and recommended by the chain people is that while both can be penetrants, they are a thicker petroleum and just what the O-rings are trying to seal against. Of course, gasoline cleans about the same, but with thinner viscosity and better penetrating power. In all honesty, I still use gas to clean (I'm lazy), but don't beat the bike often, regularly measure for linkage stretch and sprocket wear, and re-lube on every other tank of gas." Moral of the story is to not use WD-40 for cleaning motorcycle chains. This is my reply from WD-40 Company about using WD-40 on my "O" ring chain WD-40 is a multi-purpose light lubricating oil. The WD-40 will definitely displace and remove the water or moisture from the chain. The "WD" stands for water displacement. It will also act as a rust preventative on any of the metal surfaces. WD-40 will not "dry out" the rubber o-rings. We have found no visible effects on surfaces of rubber, and o-rings. Certain types of rubber will swell under prolonged immersion in WD-40 (this refers to long soaking, and not just a spray). WD-40 is also a cleaner, it will remove grime, dirt, tape, bumper stickers, and oil. It is possible that if there was a special lubricant in the o-rings, the WD-40 could act as a cleaner and remove that oil. The special lubricant would be replaced with WD-40, which is a light lubricating oil. I'm sure there are more superior, heavy duty (and costly) chain lubes on the market. There are a lot of people that recommend using WD-40 on their chains. Perhaps some experimenting with WD-40 as a water remover and rust preventative, followed by a heavier chain lube, would fit your needs. The bottom line is WD-40 will not harm your o-rings, but it could remove a lubricant previously applied to the chain. (end of e-mail) Truth be told I use chain lube for lubing the chain. WD-40 does just fine for street riding only. WD works for cleaning the chain(then wipe with rag without getting your fingers stuck between chain and sprocket) then spray on chain lube. I knew of one person who washed his chain with a pressure washer, got it real clean but a week later needed a new chain. If WD caused any problem with the seals I think I and many others, would notice within a week or two or three. Jeffrey

[E.L. Green]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "nakedwaterskier" wrote:

> "Saw your article on using WD-40 for chains and you asked for > evidence of potential harm that WD-40 can do, so am attaching a > photo. This photo is of a bearing surface from an airplane.

Which is nice, except that we're not applying WD-40 to bearings, we're applying WD-40 to the exterior of chains in order to clean the chain (via the stoddard solvent that is the primary ingredient of WD-40) and provide rust-proofing and conditioning of the o-rings (via the light machine oil that is the secondary ingredient of WD-40). Reality is that any "lubricant" applied to the exterior of the chain isn't doing much lubricating, since it would get squeezed off the rollers quite swiftly during actual operation of the motorcycle.

> Moral of the story is to not use WD-40 for cleaning motorcycle chains.

Doesn't make much difference. Stoddard solvent (mineral spirits) in WD-40 don't affect common o-ring materials. The comparison to using it on bearings is a false one. The solvent will swiftly evaporate if you let the bike sit for a few minutes after cleaning the chain, that's what it is there for, basically to evaporate and leave the light machine oil behind, and the light machine oil isn't going to do any penetration of o-rings. Given that we've had people on this list who've run 20K+ miles with nothing but WD-40 on their chains... (shrug). We can throw all this theoretical BS around, but reality simply *is*. As for me, I'm running GM Dexron III on my chain because I got tired of lubricating it all the time, bought a Scottoiler, and after the Scottoil ran out just started filling the reservoir with whatever ATF I had hanging around the garage. Dexron III has lots of nice detergent solvents in it similar to stoddard solvent in their ability to penetrate and clean things. Doesn't seem to have done my chain any harm. Still no sticky links after 15,000 miles, and I've never had to adjust the chain since I put it on.

> I use chain lube for lubing the chain. WD-40 does just fine for

No, you use chain lube for rust-proofing the chain and conditioning the o-rings. Chain lube does no lubrication applied to the exterior of the chain because it swiftly gets squeezed out of any bearing surfaces by the normal actions of the chain over the sprockets. Remember, you are applying 30 ft/lbs of torque to the chain when you open the throttle wide at low RPM's... or several hundred pounds of pressure on the tiny bearing surface where the sprocket hits the chain. Squeezes the "lubricant" right out of there. One of the points of the o-rings is to keep that lubrication *in* the chain, otherwise it would squeeze out of the chain too just like the chain lube you apply to the exterior does.

[Jud Jones]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "nakedwaterskier" wrote:

> > "Saw your article on using WD-40 for chains and you asked for > evidence of potential harm that WD-40 can do, so am attaching a > photo. This photo is of a bearing surface from an airplane. > > This is a ball and races in a sealed bearing that had been subjected > to regular use of WD-40 for a year or two. The grease was NOT > cleaned out before taking this photo - there simply is no grease and > the brownish tint is really rust. > > The ball had grooves (visible) and was shaped like a potato chip. > The races had not evenly worn (see sectioned edge) and were rutted in > spots, although neither shows too well. > > We learned that WD-40 is really good for the light uses that it was > intended for and that needs to be emphasized. However, it is largely > a penetrant, which will do just that! > > Once it penetrates into the sealed area, it dissolves the petroleum > out of the grease, leaving the clay binders. What's left in the > bearing is essentially dirt that cakes up, causing the balls to > skid. Without the petroleum, the bearing will also rust. > > The reason that kerosene and diesel fuel are still favorites and > recommended by the chain people is that while both can be penetrants, > they are a thicker petroleum and just what the O-rings are trying to > seal against. Of course, gasoline cleans about the same, but with > thinner viscosity and better penetrating power. In all honesty, I > still use gas to clean (I'm lazy), but don't beat the bike often, > regularly measure for linkage stretch and sprocket wear, and re-lube > on every other tank of gas." > > Moral of the story is to not use WD-40 for cleaning motorcycle chains. > > > This is my reply from WD-40 Company about using WD-40 on my "O" ring > chain > > WD-40 is a multi-purpose light lubricating oil. The WD-40 will > definitely displace and remove the water or moisture from the chain. > The "WD" stands for water displacement. It will also act as a rust > preventative on any of the metal surfaces. WD-40 will not "dry out" > the rubber o-rings. We have found no visible effects on surfaces of > rubber, and o-rings. Certain types of rubber will swell under > prolonged immersion in WD-40 (this refers to long soaking, and not > just a spray). > > WD-40 is also a cleaner, it will remove grime, dirt, tape, bumper > stickers, and oil. It is possible that if there was a special > lubricant in the o-rings, the WD-40 could act as a cleaner and remove > that oil. The special lubricant would be replaced with WD-40, which > is a light lubricating oil. I'm sure there are more superior, heavy > duty (and costly) chain lubes on the market. There are a lot of > people that recommend using WD-40 on their chains. Perhaps some > experimenting with WD-40 as a water remover and rust preventative, > followed by a heavier chain lube, would fit your needs. The bottom > line is WD-40 will not harm your o-rings, but it could remove a > lubricant previously applied to the chain. (end of e-mail) > > Truth be told > > I use chain lube for lubing the chain. WD-40 does just fine for > street riding only. WD works for cleaning the chain(then wipe with > rag without getting your fingers stuck between chain and sprocket) > then spray on chain lube. I knew of one person who washed his chain > with a pressure washer, got it real clean but a week later needed a > new chain. If WD caused any problem with the seals I think I and many > others, would notice within a week or two or three. > > Jeffrey >

"A tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." I'm, not calling you an idiot, just getting the quote right. How long do your chains last? What do you treat them with?

[nakedwaterskier]

The big question is does WD40 get past the O rings?...which would not be a good thing. I believe that if you exclusively use WD40, it eventually will; which wouldn't be good. Jeffrey

[Jud Jones]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "nakedwaterskier" wrote:

> > The big question is does WD40 get past the O rings?...which would not > be a good thing. I believe that if you exclusively use WD40, it > eventually will; which wouldn't be good. > > Jeffrey >

The big question is, do you know of anything that gives longer chain life?

[Bogdan Swider]

On 1/20/09 6:46 AM, "nakedwaterskier" wrote:

> > > > The big question is does WD40 get past the O rings?...which would not > be a good thing. I believe that if you exclusively use WD40, it > eventually will; which wouldn't be good. > > Jeffrey > > >

Who cares.....there s theory, then there s praxis. I m now into my fourth chain. First lasted 20k miles on a gear oil diet. The last two lasted over 20k miles in mixed pavement/off pavement use. Nothing touched their metal lips but pure WD-40. But maybe this is highly unusual; we again live in an age of miracles. The significant number of list veterans that have had similar experiences with this elixir are chosen miracle workers. Bogdan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[nakedwaterskier]

You drink WD40 as an elixir? Bogdan, I think you had too much LDS in the 60's! Jeffrey --- On Tue, 1/20/09, Bogdan Swider wrote: From: Bogdan Swider Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] WD40 as chain lube Who cares.....there's theory, then there's praxis. I'm now into my fourth chain. First lasted 20k miles on a gear oil diet. The last two lasted over 20k miles in mixed pavement/off pavement use. Nothing touched their metal lips but pure WD-40. But maybe this is highly unusual; we again live in an age of miracles. The significant number of list veterans that have had similar experiences with this elixir are chosen miracle workers. Bogdan

[Fred Hink]

I think you are mistaken. I know for a fact that Bogdan is not a Mormon.

----- Original Message ----- From: nakedwaterskier To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 9:34 AM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] WD40 as chain lube You drink WD40 as an elixir? Bogdan, I think you had too much LDS in the 60's! Jeffrey --- On Tue, 1/20/09, Bogdan Swider wrote: From: Bogdan Swider Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] WD40 as chain lube Who cares.....there's theory, then there's praxis. I'm now into my fourth chain. First lasted 20k miles on a gear oil diet. The last two lasted over 20k miles in mixed pavement/off pavement use. Nothing touched their metal lips but pure WD-40. But maybe this is highly unusual; we again live in an age of miracles. The significant number of list veterans that have had similar experiences with this elixir are chosen miracle workers. Bogdan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Silver Duck]

I caught that one, too, Fred. Of course, a case could be made for too much of either isnt good for ya! ________________________________ From: Fred Hink To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com; nakedwaterskier Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:58:00 AM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] WD40 as chain lube I think you are mistaken. I know for a fact that Bogdan is not a Mormon.

----- Original Message ----- From: nakedwaterskier To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 9:34 AM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] WD40 as chain lube You drink WD40 as an elixir? Bogdan, I think you had too much LDS in the 60's! Jeffrey --- On Tue, 1/20/09, Bogdan Swider wrote: From: Bogdan Swider Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] WD40 as chain lube Who cares.....there' s theory, then there's praxis. I'm now into my fourth chain. First lasted 20k miles on a gear oil diet. The last two lasted over 20k miles in mixed pavement/off pavement use. Nothing touched their metal lips but pure WD-40. But maybe this is highly unusual; we again live in an age of miracles. The significant number of list veterans that have had similar experiences with this elixir are chosen miracle workers. Bogdan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[roncriswell@sbcglobal.net]

He would have multiple wives though I think. Criswell

On Jan 20, 2009, at 10:58 AM, Fred Hink wrote: > I think you are mistaken. > > I know for a fact that Bogdan is not a Mormon. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: nakedwaterskier > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 9:34 AM > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] WD40 as chain lube > > You drink WD40 as an elixir? > Bogdan, > > I think you had too much LDS in the 60's! > > Jeffrey > > --- On Tue, 1/20/09, Bogdan Swider > wrote: > > From: Bogdan Swider > Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] WD40 as chain lube > > Who cares.....there's theory, then there's praxis. I'm now into my > fourth chain. First lasted 20k miles on a gear oil diet. The last two > lasted over 20k miles in mixed pavement/off pavement use. Nothing > touched their metal lips but pure WD-40. But maybe this is highly > unusual; we again live in an age of miracles. The significant number > of list veterans that have had similar experiences with this elixir > are chosen miracle workers. > > Bogdan > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]