Wilsons Sandbox

> > If they are closing large areas of riding where you are (on public > land) ... the answer for off road riders is privately owned rider > parks as we have here in North Texas. We have about 3 at last count.

On Nov 15, 2008, at 11:22 AM, E.L. Green wrote: > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "roncriswell@..." > wrote: > > > > If they are closing large areas of riding where you are (on public > > land) ... the answer for off road riders is privately owned rider > > parks as we have here in North Texas. We have about 3 at last count. > > We have publically-run rider parks funded by "green tag" stickers > here in California, they're > called "State Vehicular Areas" and we have a bunch of them. Thing > is, Californians have been > accustomed to having public land other than rider parks to ride in > and explore. California > isn't like North Texas, where all the public land was sold off to > ranchers and fenced off long > ago and you'll get buns full of buckshot if you go anywhere other > than on pavement and > where kayakers on the Red River regularly report getting fired at > by ranchers irate that there's > somebody paddling through their back yard. So Californians are > whining, but it's not a whine > that's going to get resolved by privately owned rider parks. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > Well by privately owned and run, nobody gets pissed at us. But ... > then again, public land is public land supposedly owned by all tax > payers, not just the Sierra Club and the like. We have a wonderful > little Wildlife Park / Range up west of Lawton Oklahoma and Ft.

> called The Wichita Mountains Wildlife Refuge. Great place to learn > how to rock climb on granite bolder mountain / hills with neat

> like Buffalo, Elk, Deer, Longhorns. I have been going there since

> years old. The greenies were trying to get the park to close to

> people. Er.... that sucks big time. > > If anyone fires at you on a navigate-able water way in Texas, they > are in serious violation of the law even if it runs through

> ranch land. I know the law as I used to do a lot of river running > with the Downriver Club here. Of course convincing a rancher of

> whose family may have lived on that land for the last 150 years is > another thing. Especially if floaters are throwing beer cans all

> and starting grass fires. I had a friend paddling one of our best

> wildest called the Devils River close to Lake Almstead in

> Texas. Someone fired over his bow. > > Criswell >

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "revmaaatin" wrote: > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "roncriswell@" > wrote: > > > > Well by privately owned and run, nobody gets pissed at us. But ... > > then again, public land is public land supposedly owned by all tax > > payers, not just the Sierra Club and the like. We have a wonderful > > little Wildlife Park / Range up west of Lawton Oklahoma and Ft. > Sill > > called The Wichita Mountains Wildlife Refuge. Great place to learn > > how to rock climb on granite bolder mountain / hills with neat > stuff > > like Buffalo, Elk, Deer, Longhorns. I have been going there since > 8 > > years old. The greenies were trying to get the park to close to > all > > people. Er.... that sucks big time. > > > > If anyone fires at you on a navigate-able water way in Texas, they > > are in serious violation of the law even if it runs through > private > > ranch land. I know the law as I used to do a lot of river running > > with the Downriver Club here. Of course convincing a rancher of > that > > whose family may have lived on that land for the last 150 years is > > another thing. Especially if floaters are throwing beer cans all > over > > and starting grass fires. I had a friend paddling one of our best > and > > wildest called the Devils River close to Lake Almstead in > Southwest > > Texas. Someone fired over his bow. > > > > Criswell > > > > Ron, > > Allowing that the folks were actually fired on-- > > Most states (probably not MA or CT (sic)) allow access to navigable > streams, as long as their is water enough to float a boat. It is no > longer 'public' the day the boat won't float.... > > A cure for being fired on is a 911 call on sat-phone. Being fired on > is tantamount to an act of terrorism. Do you suppose they could > easily eliminate everyone as a suspect, except, the landowner(s) on > each side of the creek? > > Who else would have such access to private land? > > A person firing on a kayak or canoe person would have to be a village > idiot, wanting to give their land to the victim in tort action. > > On the other hand, a whole lot of abuse (trash/trespassing) occurs > along the boundaries of public access--but shooting at them is not > the solution. > > revmaaatin. >

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Jud Jones" wrote: > > As an aside to this discussion, I have often wondered why Texas has almost no public land > available for riding, while most Western states have huge tracts in national forests or BLM > ownership. The apparent answer (no doubt familiar to you Texans) is that Texas was a > sovereign nation before it became a state; it was never a territory. When it joined the U.S. > it did not convey any of its publicly-owned land to the United States, which left it free to > sell it to private individuals. > Back to you regularly-scheduled programming. > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "revmaaatin" wrote: > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "roncriswell@" > > wrote: > > > > > > Well by privately owned and run, nobody gets pissed at us. But ... > > > then again, public land is public land supposedly owned by all tax > > > payers, not just the Sierra Club and the like. We have a wonderful > > > little Wildlife Park / Range up west of Lawton Oklahoma and Ft. > > Sill > > > called The Wichita Mountains Wildlife Refuge. Great place to learn > > > how to rock climb on granite bolder mountain / hills with neat > > stuff > > > like Buffalo, Elk, Deer, Longhorns. I have been going there since > > 8 > > > years old. The greenies were trying to get the park to close to > > all > > > people. Er.... that sucks big time. > > > > > > If anyone fires at you on a navigate-able water way in Texas, they > > > are in serious violation of the law even if it runs through > > private > > > ranch land. I know the law as I used to do a lot of river running > > > with the Downriver Club here. Of course convincing a rancher of > > that > > > whose family may have lived on that land for the last 150 years is > > > another thing. Especially if floaters are throwing beer cans all > > over > > > and starting grass fires. I had a friend paddling one of our best > > and > > > wildest called the Devils River close to Lake Almstead in > > Southwest > > > Texas. Someone fired over his bow. > > > > > > Criswell > > > > > > > Ron, > > > > Allowing that the folks were actually fired on-- > > > > Most states (probably not MA or CT (sic)) allow access to navigable > > streams, as long as their is water enough to float a boat. It is no > > longer 'public' the day the boat won't float.... > > > > A cure for being fired on is a 911 call on sat-phone. Being fired on > > is tantamount to an act of terrorism. Do you suppose they could > > easily eliminate everyone as a suspect, except, the landowner(s) on > > each side of the creek? > > > > Who else would have such access to private land? > > > > A person firing on a kayak or canoe person would have to be a village > > idiot, wanting to give their land to the victim in tort action. > > > > On the other hand, a whole lot of abuse (trash/trespassing) occurs > > along the boundaries of public access--but shooting at them is not > > the solution. > > > > revmaaatin. > > >

On Nov 15, 2008, at 10:33 PM, fasteddiecopeman wrote: > When I read a Michener novel -"Texas???" - he stated that ALL land > in Texas is privately > owned which could explain why there're NO public riding areas, as > there's NO public land. > Ed > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Jud Jones" wrote: > > > > As an aside to this discussion, I have often wondered why Texas > has almost no public > land > > available for riding, while most Western states have huge tracts > in national forests or > BLM > > ownership. The apparent answer (no doubt familiar to you Texans) > is that Texas was a > > sovereign nation before it became a state; it was never a > territory. When it joined the > U.S. > > it did not convey any of its publicly-owned land to the United > States, which left it free to > > sell it to private individuals. > > Back to you regularly-scheduled programming. > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "revmaaatin" wrote: > > > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "roncriswell@" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Well by privately owned and run, nobody gets pissed at us. > But ... > > > > then again, public land is public land supposedly owned by > all tax > > > > payers, not just the Sierra Club and the like. We have a > wonderful > > > > little Wildlife Park / Range up west of Lawton Oklahoma and Ft. > > > Sill > > > > called The Wichita Mountains Wildlife Refuge. Great place to > learn > > > > how to rock climb on granite bolder mountain / hills with neat > > > stuff > > > > like Buffalo, Elk, Deer, Longhorns. I have been going there > since > > > 8 > > > > years old. The greenies were trying to get the park to close to > > > all > > > > people. Er.... that sucks big time. > > > > > > > > If anyone fires at you on a navigate-able water way in Texas, > they > > > > are in serious violation of the law even if it runs through > > > private > > > > ranch land. I know the law as I used to do a lot of river > running > > > > with the Downriver Club here. Of course convincing a rancher of > > > that > > > > whose family may have lived on that land for the last 150 > years is > > > > another thing. Especially if floaters are throwing beer cans all > > > over > > > > and starting grass fires. I had a friend paddling one of our > best > > > and > > > > wildest called the Devils River close to Lake Almstead in > > > Southwest > > > > Texas. Someone fired over his bow. > > > > > > > > Criswell > > > > > > > > > > Ron, > > > > > > Allowing that the folks were actually fired on-- > > > > > > Most states (probably not MA or CT (sic)) allow access to > navigable > > > streams, as long as their is water enough to float a boat. It > is no > > > longer 'public' the day the boat won't float.... > > > > > > A cure for being fired on is a 911 call on sat-phone. Being > fired on > > > is tantamount to an act of terrorism. Do you suppose they could > > > easily eliminate everyone as a suspect, except, the landowner > (s) on > > > each side of the creek? > > > > > > Who else would have such access to private land? > > > > > > A person firing on a kayak or canoe person would have to be a > village > > > idiot, wanting to give their land to the victim in tort action. > > > > > > On the other hand, a whole lot of abuse (trash/trespassing) occurs > > > along the boundaries of public access--but shooting at them is not > > > the solution. > > > > > > revmaaatin. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Anyone have the Kawasaki KLX street legal 250? I have been eying > those for quite a while. The Cycle World bike show was in Dallas > yesterday. I got in debt a number of times (in my dreams) yesterday.

> > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "roncriswell@"

> > Anyone have the Kawasaki KLX street legal 250? I have been eying > > those for quite a while. The Cycle World bike show was in Dallas > > yesterday. I got in debt a number of times (in my dreams)

> > I've been watching the threads on advrider about the KLX 250. The

> seem to like them, except they complain it's pretty gutless. Big-

> KLX 300 and uncork it seem to be a popular item there.

> Oh, Rev - regarding Texans shooting at people -- the problem is

> against the rancher's and if he didn't hit you, you have no

> and b) even if he did hit you, heck, even if he *killed* you, you'd

> neighbors and they'd probably decide you needed killin' and not do

> was one old gent who shot a couple of Mexicans in the back as they

> road after they'd stopped at his house and asked for a drink of

> response was "Honey, get the gun" at which point the Mexicans of

> walking down the public road again until the old gent chased them

> truck and shot them in the back, the jury of this fellow's

> decided that the old gent had to be punished for this heinous crime

> of Mexicans in the back so they issued him a $5,000 fine. That's

> lived in Texas, I decided I wasn't going to take up kayaking after

> > -E >

> > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "E.L. Green" wrote: > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "roncriswell@" > wrote: > > > Anyone have the Kawasaki KLX street legal 250? I have been

> > > those for quite a while. The Cycle World bike show was in

> > > yesterday. I got in debt a number of times (in my dreams) > yesterday. > > > > I've been watching the threads on advrider about the KLX 250. The > folks who have them > > seem to like them, except they complain it's pretty gutless. Big- > bore kits to turn it into a > > KLX 300 and uncork it seem to be a popular item there. > > > Hello Eric- > > It always amuses me when 'reports' of a gutless bike, like a 250. > Gutless compared to what? > Its a 250, not a 400, not a 650, or 900, or 950. A plain two

> > I suppose they complained that it weighed 150#s less then a 650 as > well! Most likely the owner/rider does not understand the bikes

> power curve, etc. > > I 'herd' a pack of little bikes through an ORV park, and the kids > look at the places we wanted to ride with skepticism--until I get

> the KLX300, and put my nearly 200# ATGATT on a XR100R or XR70 and > ride the trail or climb the hill on their bike. Makes them a > believer. Not necessarily a hill-climber, but they know the bike

> at least capable. > > A gutless 250--there is no such thing--only riders who > are 'incapable' of riding a bike at ITS potential, not at the > expectation of something it is not. > > IF they want 'more' guts, buy more HP. Their complaining is an > indication of their bad judgement, not the bikes lack of heart or > guts. > > > > > > > > Oh, Rev - regarding Texans shooting at people -- the problem is > that a) it's your word > > against the rancher's and if he didn't hit you, you have no > evidence that he shot at you, > > and b) even if he did hit you, heck, even if he *killed* you,

> be tried by a jury of his > > neighbors and they'd probably decide you needed killin' and not

> anything to him.

On Nov 16, 2008, at 12:58 PM, revmaaatin wrote: > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "E.L. Green" wrote: > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "roncriswell@" > wrote: > > > Anyone have the Kawasaki KLX street legal 250? I have been eying > > > those for quite a while. The Cycle World bike show was in Dallas > > > yesterday. I got in debt a number of times (in my dreams) > yesterday. > > > > I've been watching the threads on advrider about the KLX 250. The > folks who have them > > seem to like them, except they complain it's pretty gutless. Big- > bore kits to turn it into a > > KLX 300 and uncork it seem to be a popular item there. > > Hello Eric- > > It always amuses me when 'reports' of a gutless bike, like a 250. > Gutless compared to what? > Its a 250, not a 400, not a 650, or 900, or 950. A plain two fifty. > > I suppose they complained that it weighed 150#s less then a 650 as > well! Most likely the owner/rider does not understand the bikes own > power curve, etc. > > I 'herd' a pack of little bikes through an ORV park, and the kids > look at the places we wanted to ride with skepticism--until I get off > the KLX300, and put my nearly 200# ATGATT on a XR100R or XR70 and > ride the trail or climb the hill on their bike. Makes them a > believer. Not necessarily a hill-climber, but they know the bike is > at least capable. > > A gutless 250--there is no such thing--only riders who > are 'incapable' of riding a bike at ITS potential, not at the > expectation of something it is not. > > IF they want 'more' guts, buy more HP. Their complaining is an > indication of their bad judgement, not the bikes lack of heart or > guts. > > > Oh, Rev - regarding Texans shooting at people -- the problem is > that a) it's your word > > against the rancher's and if he didn't hit you, you have no > evidence that he shot at you, > > and b) even if he did hit you, heck, even if he *killed* you, you'd > be tried by a jury of his > > neighbors and they'd probably decide you needed killin' and not do > anything to him. There > > was one old gent who shot a couple of Mexicans in the back as they > walked down a public > > road after they'd stopped at his house and asked for a drink of > water and his only > > response was "Honey, get the gun" at which point the Mexicans of > course left and started > > walking down the public road again until the old gent chased them > down in his pickup > > truck and shot them in the back, the jury of this fellow's > neighbors deliberated a while and > > decided that the old gent had to be punished for this heinous crime > of shooting a couple > > of Mexicans in the back so they issued him a $5,000 fine. That's > Texas. That's why when I > > lived in Texas, I decided I wasn't going to take up kayaking after > all . > > > > -E > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]