not really klr

[Brent Tegler]

My 1990 KLR650/Tengaii with 37,000 miles has recently started to occassionally pop out of first and/or second gear after shifting and is becoming increasing difficult to engage first gear. It is like first gear just won't catch when I push the shifter down. Any ideas on what kind of a problem I may be encountering would be welcome? Suggestions for a winter maintenance project also welcome! Thank-you, Brent Tegler Fergus, Ontario, Canada. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[revmaaatin]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Brent Tegler" wrote:

> > My 1990 KLR650/Tengaii with 37,000 miles has recently started to

occassionally pop out of first and/or second gear after shifting and is becoming increasing difficult to engage first gear. It is like first gear just won't catch when I push the shifter down.

> > Any ideas on what kind of a problem I may be encountering would be

welcome? Suggestions for a winter maintenance project also welcome!

> > Thank-you, Brent Tegler > Fergus, Ontario, Canada. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Brent, a couple of Q's for you; 1. How old is the oil? IE: Valvoline 10-40 begins to become hard to shift at 800-1000 miles. I had two little Honda's (barn-finds) that had shift problems--until I changed the oil in them 2x and now they shift just fine. They are using Rotella 15-40. or it could be bad news: 2. Are you getting any 'collections' on your magnetic drain plug? 3. Are you getting any significant collections in your oil filter?-- when you remove it, cut along the two metal ends and separate if from the filter element and examine the pleats for metal filings. Is it aluminum or ferrous metal? Big chunks or whiskers of metal would be bad. Steel-Whiskers indicate the gears are no longer meshing smoothly, but are grinding at the end of the engagement. Big chunks indicate that your parts are breaking off--which is bad as well. or perhaps some adjustment; 4. Is the clutch adjusted correctly? My 98KLR was hitting false neutral 'often' between 4-5 until I changed the clutch/springs. The clutch had been used hard, but the real culprit were the springs; when measured, they were .050 under spec for length. Was that the problem? shrug. I changed the clutch, the springs, and added a fresh cable and in the 600 miles since, not one missed shift into a false neutral. Hopefully, it is something easy like an oil change. Others may comment about the internal workings of the transmission, etal, and what makes a bike jump out of gear when shifting pawls begin to fail. Let us know if something simple fixes the problem or if it requires surgery. revmaaatin.

[Brent Tegler]

Revmaaatin, As I am at the 2500 mi mark and about to do an oil change I should have an answer for you in a day or two... will certainly look at the filter closely, thanks for all the suggestions. Cheers, Brent. ------------------------------------------------- Dr. Brent Tegler Applied Ecologist/Partner North-South Environmental Inc. P.O. 518, 35 Crawford Crescent, Suite 5, Campbellville, ON, Canada L0P 1B0 Phone: 905-854-1112 Fax: 905-854-0001 Email: btegler@... ------------------------------------------ ________________________________ From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com on behalf of revmaaatin Sent: Tue 10/14/2008 9:52 PM To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: First & Second Gear Engagement Problem

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com , "Brent Tegler" wrote: > > My 1990 KLR650/Tengaii with 37,000 miles has recently started to occassionally pop out of first and/or second gear after shifting and is becoming increasing difficult to engage first gear. It is like first gear just won't catch when I push the shifter down. > > Any ideas on what kind of a problem I may be encountering would be welcome? Suggestions for a winter maintenance project also welcome! > > Thank-you, Brent Tegler > Fergus, Ontario, Canada. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Brent, a couple of Q's for you; 1. How old is the oil? IE: Valvoline 10-40 begins to become hard to shift at 800-1000 miles. I had two little Honda's (barn-finds) that had shift problems--until I changed the oil in them 2x and now they shift just fine. They are using Rotella 15-40. or it could be bad news: 2. Are you getting any 'collections' on your magnetic drain plug? 3. Are you getting any significant collections in your oil filter?-- when you remove it, cut along the two metal ends and separate if from the filter element and examine the pleats for metal filings. Is it aluminum or ferrous metal? Big chunks or whiskers of metal would be bad. Steel-Whiskers indicate the gears are no longer meshing smoothly, but are grinding at the end of the engagement. Big chunks indicate that your parts are breaking off--which is bad as well. or perhaps some adjustment; 4. Is the clutch adjusted correctly? My 98KLR was hitting false neutral 'often' between 4-5 until I changed the clutch/springs. The clutch had been used hard, but the real culprit were the springs; when measured, they were .050 under spec for length. Was that the problem? shrug. I changed the clutch, the springs, and added a fresh cable and in the 600 miles since, not one missed shift into a false neutral. Hopefully, it is something easy like an oil change. Others may comment about the internal workings of the transmission, etal, and what makes a bike jump out of gear when shifting pawls begin to fail. Let us know if something simple fixes the problem or if it requires surgery. revmaaatin. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Greg May]

Hi Brent, first I would check my clutch adjustment to make sure that it isn't dragging and although I never had the problem I've read on the forum that some oils will cause the hard shifting, Well in my past I rebuilt several bike transmissions that were mostly out of Kawasaki triples that had been drag raced a lot, they were both a little hard to get into 1st and popped out of gear under heavy load. The problem in these bikes were worn and slightly bent shift forks and rounded over engagement dogs on some of the gears, I've never heard of this being a KLR problem and hopefully it's not your problem...Have a great day..Greg

--- On Tue, 10/14/08, Brent Tegler wrote: From: Brent Tegler Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] First & Second Gear Engagement Problem To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Received: Tuesday, October 14, 2008, 10:14 PM My 1990 KLR650/Tengaii with 37,000 miles has recently started to occassionally pop out of first and/or second gear after shifting and is becoming increasing difficult to engage first gear. It is like first gear just won't catch when I push the shifter down. Any ideas on what kind of a problem I may be encountering would be welcome? Suggestions for a winter maintenance project also welcome! Thank-you, Brent Tegler Fergus, Ontario, Canada. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[mikeypep]

I've seen where some riders had problems with the shift lever. It may be loose or not properly adjusted and interfering with something on the frame. I'd check everything before tearing down the trans. It gets expensive. -- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Brent Tegler" wrote:

> > My 1990 KLR650/Tengaii with 37,000 miles has recently started to

occassionally pop out of first and/or second gear after shifting and is becoming increasing difficult to engage first gear. It is like first gear just won't catch when I push the shifter down.

> > Any ideas on what kind of a problem I may be encountering would be

welcome? Suggestions for a winter maintenance project also welcome!

> > Thank-you, Brent Tegler > Fergus, Ontario, Canada. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

[Tumu Rock]

I agree with Mike here. Check the shift lever first. Takes one bolt to pull it. Most common problem is a broken weld at the engine side of the lever. If yours is stock I;d bet that's your culprit. da Vermonster (I think I have about 4 or 5 stock shift levers in the garage because I always change that in the first couple weeks of KLR ownership...)

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "mikeypep" wrote: > > I've seen where some riders had problems with the shift lever. It may be loose or not properly adjusted and interfering with something on the frame. > > -- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Brent Tegler" wrote: > > > > My 1990 KLR650/Tengaii with 37,000 miles has recently started to > occassionally pop out of first and/or second gear after shifting and > is becoming increasing difficult to engage first gear. It is like > first gear just won't catch when I push the shifter down. > > > > Any ideas on what kind of a problem I may be encountering would be > welcome? Suggestions for a winter maintenance project also welcome! > > > > Thank-you, Brent Tegler > > Fergus, Ontario, Canada. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

[cyclebay@aol.com]

I agree, check the easy stuff first. My 2004 KLR never has exhibited the issue with second gear that you describe, but had developed the first gear issue. I have a 1989 motor that I bought to use for parts when I need them. The 1989 bike only had around 20,000 miles on it, but there is wear on the gear dogs/windows responsible for 1st gear engagement evident when it was disassembled. This leads me to believe that the two gears responsible for engaging first gear should be shimmed/modified for better engagement as the factory may be jsut a bit off from ideal during assembly. When my 2004?bike began getting hard to engage 1st gear, then sometimes jumping out on initial accelleration (once only, when kicked back down on the lever, it would stay), I checked the shifter for any contact with cases, peg, frame etc, then proceeded to remove the right engine cover to inspect the linkage (this was at around 30,000 miles).?With the cover off, bike on a shop lift, jack to elevate the rear wheel off the lift and rotating the clutch shaft while shifting the lever through the gears, it was clear on my 2004 that the shift shaft did not quite turn the shift drum far enough to fully engage first gear. I came to this conclusion because when the trans engaged 1st gear, the drum would turn slightly more on it's own. As crude as it sounds, I was able to grind the shift shaft window (that limits the shaft travel) in the shaft to?allow it to travel just a bit further so that the drum would be fully?rotated as far as it?would be when 1st gear is engaged. It is important to not overcut the window so that the shaft can move further than the drum needs to travel or shaft/linkage damage may result.?The lever can be held down into the first gear position (helpful if someone else does this) while the person?inspecting/grinding the linkage attempts to rotate further the shift drum, then the shaft is removed for the grinding of the window. The window only needs to be modified enough to get the drum to it's limit when going down into first gear, not past. My bike now has 63,000 miles and I have had no further issues with it. If I were to ever split the motor, I would deal with evaluating the need of modifying the gear engagement by machning or shimming, but so far this has not been needed. I believe that the first gears in the 1989 motor were damaged from lack of total engagement from the shift shaft not able to turn the drum quite enough to engage.? In your case, as it is two gears affected, there may be a bent shift fork, or some other issue that will require major disassembly, but if you see a problem in the primary side of the motor, it is much cheaper to resolve there than splitting.? Good Luck! Greg Hall?? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Brent Tegler]

Hi Greg, Thank you so much for your detailed comments..... it has been quite cold this week and I have been waiting for the weekend to look at this problem... so much tremendous advice on this forum, everyone very generously sharing their personal experiences... your description of the problem sounds very similar to what I have been experiencing, I will let everyone know how the simple fixes work and then if needed I will try your suggestions.... As an aside I watched the final episodes of Charlie Borman's DVD "Race to Dakar" last night, it is a pretty neat inside look at this romantic race that every dual-sport rider dreams of at one point or another... worth having a look. Cheers, Brent. Tengaii rider Fergus, Ontario, Canada ________________________________ From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com on behalf of cyclebay@... Sent: Fri 10/17/2008 10:10 AM To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: First & Second Gear Engagement Problem I agree, check the easy stuff first. My 2004 KLR never has exhibited the issue with second gear that you describe, but had developed the first gear issue. I have a 1989 motor that I bought to use for parts when I need them. The 1989 bike only had around 20,000 miles on it, but there is wear on the gear dogs/windows responsible for 1st gear engagement evident when it was disassembled. This leads me to believe that the two gears responsible for engaging first gear should be shimmed/modified for better engagement as the factory may be jsut a bit off from ideal during assembly. When my 2004?bike began getting hard to engage 1st gear, then sometimes jumping out on initial accelleration (once only, when kicked back down on the lever, it would stay), I checked the shifter for any contact with cases, peg, frame etc, then proceeded to remove the right engine cover to inspect the linkage (this was at around 30,000 miles).?With the cover off, bike on a shop lift, jack to elevate the rear wheel off the lift and rotating the clutch shaft while shifting the lever through the gears, it was clear on my 2004 that the shift shaft did not quite turn the shift drum far enough to fully engage first gear. I came to this conclusion because when the trans engaged 1st gear, the drum would turn slightly more on it's own. As crude as it sounds, I was able to grind the shift shaft window (that limits the shaft travel) in the shaft to?allow it to travel just a bit further so that the drum would be fully?rotated as far as it?would be when 1st gear is engaged. It is important to not overcut the window so that the shaft can move further than the drum needs to travel or shaft/linkage damage may result.?The lever can be held down into the first gear position (helpful if someone else does this) while the person?inspecting/grinding the linkage attempts to rotate further the shift drum, then the shaft is removed for the grinding of the window. The window only needs to be modified enough to get the drum to it's limit when going down into first gear, not past. My bike now has 63,000 miles and I have had no further issues with it. If I were to ever split the motor, I would deal with evaluating the need of modifying the gear engagement by machning or shimming, but so far this has not been needed. I believe that the first gears in the 1989 motor were damaged from lack of total engagement from the shift shaft not able to turn the drum quite enough to engage.? In your case, as it is two gears affected, there may be a bent shift fork, or some other issue that will require major disassembly, but if you see a problem in the primary side of the motor, it is much cheaper to resolve there than splitting.? Good Luck! Greg Hall?? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Arden Kysely]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Jud Jones" wrote:

> > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Luc Legrain wrote: > > > > > Where is that ol'sailor from Costa Rica at have not heard from

him in a while ? Jacques ??

> > > > Jacobus? He's around. >

I had an email from him a few weeks ago, said he'd been banned. Can't remember why. Too bad, I enjoyed his perspective. __Arden

[Brent Tegler]

My shift engagement problem was fixed by simply tightening the shift lever on the shaft.... I felt pretty stupid when it turned out to be something so simple, but thought other riders may like to hear what initially appeared to be a big problem, was in fact a regular maintenance issue I should have discovered by checking for loose nuts/bolts.... I hope you appreciate it was not easy for me to make this public confession of my stupidity... Thanks especially to those who suggested checking the simple stuff first! Lots of rain and cold weather means our riding season is pretty much done in Ontario for another year... sadly Cheers, Brent. Tengaii rider Fergus, Ontario, Canada ________________________________ From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com on behalf of mikeypep Sent: Thu 10/16/2008 9:46 AM To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: First & Second Gear Engagement Problem I've seen where some riders had problems with the shift lever. It may be loose or not properly adjusted and interfering with something on the frame. I'd check everything before tearing down the trans. It gets expensive. -- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com , "Brent Tegler" wrote:

> > My 1990 KLR650/Tengaii with 37,000 miles has recently started to

occassionally pop out of first and/or second gear after shifting and is becoming increasing difficult to engage first gear. It is like first gear just won't catch when I push the shifter down.

> > Any ideas on what kind of a problem I may be encountering would be

welcome? Suggestions for a winter maintenance project also welcome!

> > Thank-you, Brent Tegler > Fergus, Ontario, Canada. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]