Wilsons Sandbox

Have you considered running for political office? You are a natural. You gave us information that pretty much everyone over the age of 10 already knows, and agrees with. Congratulations, you won't get any arguments. How about some real solutions? Things that make economic sense RIGHT NOW! Everyone knows alternative energy is available, but at what cost? Are YOU going to pay 50% to 100% more for your energy RIGHT NOW? I doubt it, based on your complaining about $4 gas. I have an idea. Since everyone seems to agree the oil companies are screwing them, why don't we get a few thousand of us to pool our money, and build a refinery as an investment? Sounds like a sure-win business, doesn't it?? Good luck................. Much of your rant is perfect 20/20 hindsight. Gee, we all wish you were running the country 6 years ago. By the way, Pres Bush didn't send our troops into Iraq. CONGRESS DID! You know, the Reps AND Dems. It is just the liberal media has brainwashed everyone for the last 6 years that it was just the Reps. This country debated this issue for what, 9 months, voted on it, and went ahead. I'm not trying to be a smart ass to you on this, but this political crap on this K L R site is getting old. I can't wait until the election is over. So what kind of gas guzzling car do YOU drive? Jeff A20 In a message dated 10/5/2008 2:51:20 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, boulder_adv_rider@... writes: Folks, we need to rally together for energy independence. I can't say how sad I am to see our country deteriorating while we fund the world's development and terrorists via our oil addiction. This country has to come together and take a stand against Congress and friggin special interests. Otherwise, the freedoms that dwindles each year won't be here for future generations. I enjoy riding my KLR and sharing this forum. However, it's not a Constitutional right. If we don't get off our oil addiction, others might never get such opportunities. Jobs--mostly manufacturing-m continue to go overseas (159k jobs lost with the latest job report). We are starting to go beyond a tipping point. It is a crisis. Right here and now. Of course, I don't have all the solutions. In fact, I'm better at fixing KLRs than meddling in politics myself. But I'm good at identifying one thing as are most in here: things that are dangerously broken. Our government led by Jackass Bush has systematically driven things to the brink. Biden called Chenney "the most dangerous Vice President we've ever had." Wow. You'd like to discard it as rhetoric, but the crazy thing is no one disputes it! Now, I'm not here to argue for Obama or McCain; Republican or Democrat. Rather, remind you all how important energy independence is. However is stepping in and up to run this nation needs to understand clearly We the People are loading him into the breech of our public weapon. The weapon that will wage a war on energy independence. Don't take the job if it's not a top priority. Where these jackasses and the special interests are getting in the way, we need to drag them out of the way by their hair. Enough is enough. The Bush oil wars need to end, and we need to create jobs here in America and go back to strengthening our nation. Serious capital directed to alternative energy will create jobs here and lower costs of energy. The truth is good economies are predicated on cheap energy. Paying $4 for gasoline and high heating and other energy bills is just eroding real incomes. Our Congress simply needs to STOP irresponsible spending. For example, $10B a month in Iraq building its nation is unacceptable. At $4/watt installed (high estimate) that's 250 million watts of solar energy and jobs created getting it installed. We could be doing this monthly while spending a lot less to strengthen our own national security here at home. We'll never prevent every terrorist attack. We're wasting our money fighting these wars. Every country leaving Afghanistan comes out defeated...cut above the eye, fat lip and severe limp. We'll be no different. Instead, let's enjoy a tidy backyard instead of trying to clean up the messes all over in the world. When more countries decide to put skin in the game and rout out the evil, then we'll consider the problem real. Right now we're doing more harm than good and getting weaker each day. Not to mention pissing away opportunity and people with a ridiculous addition to oil. I would sure like to see something like this being built in America vs. United Arab Emirates. Not it's their second building...not even done with the first. And we can't even get our Towers back! _[url=http://news.http://newhttp://news.http://news.http://newhttp://news. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081005/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_dubai_world_s_ta) llest_building Lastly, I'd be nice to enjoy a weekend without having to feel uneasy for our men and women in harm's way. I'd sure like to see them get the hell out of these places and put an end to the horrific injuries and body bags being delivered weekly to shattered friends, family and loved ones. Brian - who believes a vision is a dream with a mission **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Just a few thoughts regarding your assertions: Diesel is cleaner than gas? Are you sure? I know there have been major inroads cleaning up diesel, but there are still issues. Ethanol an environmental problem? Really? Alcohol burns cleaner than diesel or gas. Do you still believe ethanol is going to be made from corn? No one in the industry does. Check into the plant enginerering going on. Like everything else, it needs a bit of development. People buy a new car that is more polluting than a well tuned older car??? Uh, no. Just how old are you referring to? A couple of years, 20 perhaps? A 25 year old car has about 1000 times the pollution of a new car. That is no exageration. At least that is what my smog checks tell me. Compare the numbers. Stop supporting Isreal and Egypt? I'm with you on that, but the reality is sitting on our butts and ignoring the outside world and all of the a**holes out there is just what Europe did in the mid thirties. And what did we get out of it? History refresher: Nazi Germany and WW2. This is the reason we stick our noses in the outside world. Better to fight little wars then the big one. Jeff A20 In a message dated 10/5/2008 4:54:21 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, reverend@... writes: We do have a few good things going for us. We have nuclear (safe, inexpensive and something we can develop more. The nuclear waste - as long as it's radioactive it contains energy, can that be harnessed?) and we have oil. Now, oil, despite the doom and gloomers spreading lies, isn't running out, and like Europe (noticeable as I'm IN Europe right now) Diesel is a Damn Good Thing. Granted, using less polluting sources of energy would be noble, but at this point, we have few viable choices. I am no chemist, but I think that propane and methane are among the few things less polluting than Diesel. Gasoline isn't, but for some reason nobody likes the easy-to-refine Diesel in the US. Some alternatives would be to push a little more PV electricity for domestic use. Prices are coming down so you can offset a good amount at home with only a $20K ivestment. Nobody wants that either, since they rather buy a new car (more polluting than many old ones kept in good shape). We get special interest crap like Ethanol, that many people knew from the start was a horribly moronic idea, particularly with the 'environmental' aspect being the 'benefit'. Lobbyists make policy by essentially bribing our "elected for the people by the people" politicians into harebrained ideas. It works - try to tell someone with a flexfuel car that he's f'ing up the environment for the rest of us and see what happens! An idea would be to stop with the treasonous support of Israel and Egypt, stop foreign aid all together. Bring back the military and stop with "strategic" military placement around the planet. Strengthen our borders and bump up domestic manufacturing. We can buy oil with straight dollars instead of oddball trades. We can make immigrants adhere to our way of life instead of catering to theirs under the name of whatever freedoms they crave (religious comes to mind.. hey, pray 5x a day if you wish, but if that impacts your work performance, you get canned! - see Swift Manufacturing)i I guess I just figure that we are just on our knees servicing far too many countries and people and neglecting our own kids, education, infrastructure (I drove to Texas a while back and compared to the AUtoBahn, our freeways are 4x4 tracks!!) It's embarrassing! On the flip side, it's vanity that keeps us wanting to be on top of the food chain. Even the dinosaurs died out, the planet didn't. Long after natural events (or nuclear war) has made the planet unsustainable for humans, the planet will still hum along fine. Maybe cockroaches will rule the planet? Would that be so bad, other than out of human superiority vanity?

> -----Original Message----- > Behalf Of boulder_adv_ > > Folks, we need to rally together for energy independence. I can't

**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jeff - Hardly a natural. I would consider running for office. However this crooked Congress and all those following like scared children fear people like me as much as guns. They don't want the party to end. Rather this administration and Congress use fear to force people into they have no choice but to follow blindly them and be weary of reasonable and responsible citizens like me. Just look. In an unprecedented move and completely panic-driving way look at Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson asking for unsupervised and uncontested access to $700 billion dollars and...all but keys to the nuclear missiles silos, too! Why not! Again, Bush on TV doing just like he did with the Irag war. This is where it started with Bush and his weapons of mass destruction farce. We all got snookered on that. Well, now we all realize he's just a liar. I'm not afraid to get into govt and burn it down. I've worked hard. My family has worked hard and followed the 'rules.' They all have children and we've all served our country well. However in being good citizens we can see this government is no longer serving the People in a prudent and consistent manner. Everyone sees it. Acutally, Jimmy Carter got it right back in 1979. Ever read his Malaise Speech? It describes where we are now nearly but nearly 30 years ago. I'll post a link at the bottom for readers. Well it's funny you say we all have the same information but why is it no one wants to do anything about it? Are you just going to take it laying down? I have solutions. Actually, I'm working on some pretty good solutions. Really. One possible solution...war bonds. Issue them. Declare a war on energy and issue billions of thems. People that can't afford the bonds can lease the space on there roof. In exchange, participating homeowners can receive a substantial discount on their energy bills. Get out of Afghanistan and Iraq. Spend the money at home on wind farms, solar installations, upgrading the grid, conservation programs, biofuels, and CNG for vehicles. A friend of mine drove from Europe to China on nat gas for pennies/mile. It's ridiculous the friggin strangle hold Big Oil has on Americans. You want to get it started? Have all Americans that believe in Energy Independence go and sit in the streets for a few days. See how important it is and if the government responds. If these people don't understand Americans mean business, we're doomed to more of the same regardless who's in office! I don't care Republican vs. Dem or who is/was to blame then or now. We know the problem, let's get the darn thing fixed! Yes, I will pay more for it but I don't think that's necessary. People like Henry Ford built cars before gas stations were available and before there were roads! The capital and technology is ready-- just not our society. We don't want to change anything. We are lazy. Plain and simple. It took years to replace the horse and mule. Countless technologies die on the vine waiting for people to get out of their own way...resistant to change. Clinging to the wreckage like a sinking ship in many ways. I have a KLR and a 1996 Dodge Ram. I have 60k on the Ram. Ironically, I have more miles on my mountain bike and road bike than my KLR and very close to the Ram, if not more. I used to ride 500 mile/week while training. In fact, my brother just won the Race across Oregon (540 miles in 35 hours!) I'm very proud of him/this! I don't complain about $4 gasoline. Never have. Rather I complain about what $4 gasoline does to an economy that has alternatives. Without Toyota and Honda, US automakers would have you believing there is no such thing as a hybrid. Why? It's been pulling on the US Govt utter for decades and now is one the waiting list for a bailout. It got it wrong in the 70s building crap cars and again turning out SUVs by the gross. There's simply no vision. I'm saying you don't need to pay-up for energy. If we declare a war on energy and really make it a priority, people can and will do good things and rise to the challenge. Otherwise, as capitalists everyone asks what's in it for me? No $100 bills? I'm not interested. We'll, you'll be paid in the future--modestly but appropriately. Build a refinery?? Presently our refineries in the US are running at close to 84% of capacity. We're using less gasoline and these refiners are cutting production just to keep supplies tight and prices high. That's the fact. Look at companies like Tesoro and Valero. They're getting killed by high oil prices and low refinery- product sales prices. They'd love to be charging you $8/gallon, trust me. Fortunatley, they can't. Big Oil is pulling this oil crisis stunt to get access to the nations reserves and plunder it. It's getting closer and Bush has done his best--no doubt. But again, eventually it runs out and you are worse off in the future...much like today. We import 70% of our oil vs. 20%. You see the Big Oil has played the chess game well. But instead of expensive and risky off-shore drilling, use oil subsidies that the oil companies insist they no longer need! on alt-e projects (noted above). These project will pay into the future and create jobs. You and I building another refinery will do nothing. We'd be better off drilling oil, increasing our alt-e footprint, and dump the oil on the int'l marketes just like Iran and Brazil are doing. Ever notice? Brazil and Iran are both rapidly replacing oil with alternatives in order to feed the monkeys...us here in the US paying very high prices for our addiction. Ridiculous. Simply, we sponsor and develop the same rogue regimes that want to kills us or others! Hint: Want to win/end the war on drugs? Quit using drugs here in America. The industry will grind to halt. Oil and drugs are very much a 'tragedy of the commons' problem. Everyone thinks "me using is such a drop in the bucket. It doesn't matter." It matters. Specifically, I don't think the oil companies are screwing us exactly. But no doubt they have every reason to promote their industry just like GM and Ford pimping big gas guzzlers right up until Toyota stepped onto the stage with a highly more reliable product I'll note. I'm not ranting. I'm simply raising a red flag. I'm focused 100% on the future and suggest we all get involved however we can. I wish I had a handbook to mail you...ha ha. Well, just ask Karl Rove; he'll tell you Bush was going into Iraq long before Congress voted. Bush fueled up the fear machine and basically hoodwinked the public. He convinced himself the war would be won easily and the war effort would stimulate the ecomony. Of course, it's a mess now and why he has ZERO credibility not to mention the lowest approval rating in history. Liberal media has it's mark, no doubt. But the American people are smart enough to realize this govt is a mess...Bush admin and Congress--Dems and Repubs. But it's not everyone. Some people in govt do have good intention and truly serve the People like the Constitution mandates. Lastly, it's important to realize I'm not taking sides. Rather I see something out of control and hope others see it, too. Look at middle America. It's eroding. It's not only going to affect you, it will affect all us and future generations. Trust me, this topic is not going away post-election. It's going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better. I'm eager to grab an oar myself, but it's a big boat to row. It's why I'm appealing to people on this board to seriously keep the pressure on our leaders. We demand change. link to Carter's 1979 Malaise Speech http://www2.volstate.edu/geades/FinalDocs/1970s&beyond/malaise.htm

Europe has had great success cleaning up diesel combustion. But that's not the problem here. We'll burn hand creme here in America if it's cheaper. The problem is the diesel tax. It's used to levy a tax on truckers similar to our gas tax. But for diesel it's worse so car drivers using diesel pay a higher price for diesel than is really necessary. It's just not a good deal and therefore no readily available. Ever look for diesel in your town? Without competition, you can get raped if you can even find it! It's like finding kerosene for a heater. No one sells it like they used to. You end up buying a 5-gallon can from Homey Depot for $36...sham-wow! I don't believe diesel is cleaner. It's an old myth. Can it be made as clean? Possibly. Ethanol from corn is joke. It's what dopey ears wants America to hang on to while we give corn farmers a bonanza and starve the world with unafordable corn prices. Not a good idea. Ethanol will work but algae is the right base. If you guys haven't read this, it's a good read. http://www.thecleantechrevolution.com/ I think we're all for letting Israel and Egypt fight they're own battles. Since when did we become the United States of the World? I don't think there is ANY evidence that staying out of this crap is a bad idea. What are we getting for it now?? Bad reputation. Called imperialists. Lose more of our men and women while we go bankrupt? Personally, I say we let other nations get a little more skin in the game. Let France deal take a bit more heat. Damn, right we'll bail them out again. We love bailouts, don't we? All I can say is when we have a real war, we win it. These fear-based wars like Vietnam are friggin albatrosses (sorry Albatross, no offense). The Bush Doctrine is a disaster. It's great for oil prices and defense spending and that's it. At least when we go to war, it's do or die. None of the b/s of rubber bullets and nation building. It should be our nation is under attack like Japan and Germany. Not this protect our interest everywhere. Total crap policy b/c we screw it up and spend fortunes. I totally disagree fighting these little wars. There should be no such thing as a 'little war.' Either our nation is under emminent attack or forget it. If we got we're addicted to oil and drugs, there wouldn't be all these b/s 'little squirmishes' to waste our time. Walk tall and carry a big stick. Since when did bullying come in?

why not just hit delete? I find the tips and knowledge on this list too valuable to get annoyed by politics or other off topic items. ----- Original Message ---- From: Richard Shelton To: dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 5, 2008 9:09:02 PM Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR Energy independence is a crisis. Where's The People's... Please take me off of this list...I enjoy reading about people and their love for their motorcycles...I hate the political bullcrap spulled by a few. If I wanted to read that stuff there are politcal sites I could access. It was nice while it lasted. To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.comFrom: boulder_adv_rider@...: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 01:39:13 +0000Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR Energy independence is a crisis. Where's The People's... Europe has had great success cleaning up diesel combustion. But that's not the problem here. We'll burn hand creme here in America if it's cheaper. The problem is the diesel tax. It's used to levy a tax on truckers similar to our gas tax. But for diesel it's worse so car drivers using diesel pay a higher price for diesel than is really necessary. It's just not a good deal and therefore no readily available. Ever look for diesel in your town? Without competition, you can get raped if you can even find it! It's like finding kerosene for a heater. No one sells it like they used to. You end up buying a 5-gallon can from Homey Depot for $36...sham-wow!I don't believe diesel is cleaner. It's an old myth. Can it be made as clean? Possibly. Ethanol from corn is joke. It's what dopey ears wants America to hang on to while we give corn farmers a bonanza and starve the world with unafordable corn prices. Not a good idea. Ethanol will work but algae is the right base.If you guys haven't read this, it's a good read.http://www.thecleantechrevolution.com/I think we're all for letting Israel and Egypt fight they're own battles. Since when did we become the United States of the World? I don't think there is ANY evidence that staying out of this crap is a bad idea. What are we getting for it now?? Bad reputation. Called imperialists. Lose more of our men and women while we go bankrupt? Personally, I say we let other nations get a little more skin in the game. Let France deal take a bit more heat. Damn, right we'll bail them out again. We love bailouts, don't we? All I can say is when we have a real war, we win it. These fear-based wars like Vietnam are friggin albatrosses (sorry Albatross, no offense). The Bush Doctrine is a disaster. It's great for oil prices and defense spending and that's it. At least when we go to war, it's do or die. None of the b/s of rubber bullets and nation building. It should be our nation is under attack like Japan and Germany. Not this protect our interest everywhere. Total crap policy b/c we screw it up and spend fortunes. I totally disagree fighting these little wars. There should be no such thing as a 'little war.' Either our nation is under emminent attack or forget it. If we got we're addicted to oil and drugs, there wouldn't be all these b/s 'little squirmishes' to waste our time. Walk tall and carry a big stick. Since when did bullying come in? _________________________________________________________________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn 10 hidden secrets from Jamie. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo! Groups Links

Millions of people worldwide spend billions of dollars trying to stop spam because it's so incredibly annoying and you don't get it? Off topic messages are easily as annoying as spam and really are worse because they come in cloaked as one of my favorite e-list messages. I know that some people just don't give a damn who they offend or inconvenience but off topic message annoy and inconvenience a hell of a lot of people and we sure wish they'd take it to private email or an e-list where people actually signed up for their political or whatever messages. Climbing down off of soapbox.... Sorry for the rant.... $bob$ _____ From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Bell Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 10:26 PM To: Richard Shelton; dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR Energy independence is a crisis. Where's The People's... why not just hit delete? I find the tips and knowledge on this list too valuable to get annoyed by politics or other off topic items. ----- Original Message ---- From: Richard Shelton hotmail.com> To: dsn_klr650@yahoogro ups.com Sent: Sunday, October 5, 2008 9:09:02 PM Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR Energy independence is a crisis. Where's The People's... Please take me off of this list...I enjoy reading about people and their love for their motorcycles...I hate the political bullcrap spulled by a few. If I wanted to read that stuff there are politcal sites I could access. It was nice while it lasted. To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.comFrom: boulder_adv_ rider@...: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 01:39:13 +0000Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR Energy independence is a crisis. Where's The People's... Europe has had great success cleaning up diesel combustion. But that's not the problem here. We'll burn hand creme here in America if it's cheaper. The problem is the diesel tax. It's used to levy a tax on truckers similar to our gas tax. But for diesel it's worse so car drivers using diesel pay a higher price for diesel than is really necessary. It's just not a good deal and therefore no readily available. Ever look for diesel in your town? Without competition, you can get raped if you can even find it! It's like finding kerosene for a heater. No one sells it like they used to. You end up buying a 5-gallon can from Homey Depot for $36...sham-wow!I don't believe diesel is cleaner. It's an old myth. Can it be made as clean? Possibly. Ethanol from corn is joke. It's what dopey ears wants America to hang on to while we give corn farmers a bonanza and starve the world with unafordable corn prices. Not a good idea. Ethanol will work but algae is the right base.If you guys haven't read this, it's a good read.http:// http://www.thecleantechrevolution.com/I> www.thecleantechrevolution.com/I think we're all for letting Israel and Egypt fight they're own battles. Since when did we become the United States of the World? I don't think there is ANY evidence that staying out of this crap is a bad idea. What are we getting for it now?? Bad reputation. Called imperialists. Lose more of our men and women while we go bankrupt? Personally, I say we let other nations get a little more skin in the game. Let France deal take a bit more heat. Damn, right we'll bail them out again. We love bailouts, don't we? All I can say is when we have a real war, we win it. These fear-based wars like Vietnam are friggin albatrosses (sorry Albatross, no offense). The Bush Doctrine is a disaster. It's great for oil prices and defense spending and that's it. At least when we go to war, it's do or die. None of the b/s of rubber bullets and nation building. It should be our nation is under attack like Japan and Germany. Not this protect our interest everywhere. Total crap policy b/c we screw it up and spend fortunes. I totally disagree fighting these little wars. There should be no such thing as a 'little war.' Either our nation is under emminent attack or forget it. If we got we're addicted to oil and drugs, there wouldn't be all these b/s 'little squirmishes' to waste our time. Walk tall and carry a big stick. Since when did bullying come in? __________________________________________________________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn "10 hidden secrets" from Jamie. http://windowslive. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jam ... m-Blog-cns> com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295 .entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Member Map at: http://www.frappr. http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo> com/dsnklr650Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It's very exciting but also critical to America remaining free and prosperous. Again, healthy strong economies are predicated on low-cost energy. I'm very serious about this. More on the exciting part...changes in the moto industry are coming. It won't be death to the internal combustion engine but new designs and green machines are coming. Perhaps this is for the George Clooneys that like to say they ride and have gone green. ha ha Regardless, you'd be surprised what happens when you take a moto from carbon fiber (frame) and install a very powerful electric motor. Holy cow it's a rocket shot. The moto in the link below does not use carbon fiber but aluminum frame. With any electric engine, range is the limitation. Of course, we put men on the moon some 237,000 miles (382k km) without any gas stations inbetween. My guess is we'll solve the battery problem, too. http://www.enertiabike.com/

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Chromatech1 wrote: > > Personally, I find this energy/economic crisis to be exciting and potentially beneficial. All those extra pounds and material wealth us Americans have accumulated over the years will come in handy when we get back to the basics of survival. > > My 2, > Johnny Black >

Just passing it along - I have no stake in this sale: http://raleigh.craigslist.org/mcy/871799453.html