Wilsons Sandbox

Dave, I helped a buddy put a TKC-80 on his KLR rear and the next day we put D606's on front AND rear of mine. These tires are heavy and have thick sidewalls and are very hard to handle because they're stiff. We finally figured out that "cooking" them in the sun made them much more pliable and easier to handle. We also use PLENTY of "lube" when we put them on... Believe it or not we use Windex. It's very slippery and dries fast so you can ride right away. We learned how to do it from these three videos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw0B2gIwbBg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw0B2gIwbBg&feature=related> &feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTatadVNA-c http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTatadVNA-c&feature=related> &feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjJXE73rGvk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjJXE73rGvk&feature=related> &feature=related I bought the Harbor Freight tire machine with the motorcycle adaptor and still it was still tough but manageable. I'm not looking forward to my first roadside repair but at least I now carry the right tools and know how. $bob$ _____ From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Bell Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 7:26 PM To: klr list Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Blow out! I had a blow out of my rear tire going 70 mph today. It was my own fault. I had mounted a new tire and damaged the bead. I did this by failing to compress the tire as I was putting it on the wheel, which allows the bead already on the wheel to get down into the middle of the wheel. This is important because the wheel is smaller diameter in the center and by putting the already pried on tire in the center it gives enough slack in the bead to allow the rest of it to slip on. I had read somewhere to do it and saw the logic, but I failed to do it. Later, when I was putting back on my old tire til another new one gets here, I realized what I had done. So anyway, I took the bike out for a test drive. The new tires are Continental TK80's and I wanted to see how they did at highway speed, since I had some Kenda street tires on the bike when I bought it. The tires did fine. I was surprised at how smooth they felt. They did not seem to whine or squirm at all. So, I'm perking along going 70 mph (GPS speed) when I hear a very loud bang. For a split second nothing happened, then the bike swerved violently to the right (I think) as the tire came halfway off the wheel. I did not put on the brakes, I just instinctively steered gently back to my proper spot on the road. Then the bike swerved violently to the left (I think). Again, I just gently steered back into my lane. This repeated itself about 7-8 times. The swerves were very wide, nearly the whole roadway. Of course, I had let off the gas but I never started braking hard until I had slowed way down, then I pulled off the road and stopped. A couple of cars stopped and the people in the cars said "Are you all right?" They looked very freaked out and concerned. One middle aged guy said he thought I was going down for sure. A couple of teen age boys stopped and said the same thing, except they were very excited and laughing. The funny thing about all this, was as I was swerving back and forth, I was thinking of the clothes I had on. I had on a very good Schuberth Helmet (real glad about that) but I had on a T shirt (not glad) and some thin camo fatigue pants (not glad) and running shoes (not glad). I was swerving down the road at 70 mph and taking inventory of my (lack of) protective gear. You can tell me I'm stupid if you want to, because I felt pretty stupid. I had a feeling that I had pried on that tire too hard and possibly damaged it. I also should have worked up to 70 mph instead of just gunning it on up, and I should have had on more gear. I confess this so that maybe someone else won't get hurt. dave [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I need some guidance here because, I have no idea what Dave is saying and I think it may relate to the problem I am having. I am having trouble mounting an Avon Gripster rear tire on my 2008 w/6k miles. This is my first motorcycle tire change. I didn't have any problems removing the OEM tire, or getting the new tire on the rim; however, when inflated one side of the tire does not seat correctly on rim. For about 8 inches the tire has not "popped" on the rim. When deflated, this is the only section of the tire that unseats from the rim. There is no damage to the rim, or any dirt/grim on the rim. I use windex to lube the tire/rim. I have inflated it to 55lbs. With the bike in the air, and idling in 1st gear, you can see the wobble where the tire is not seated properly. Is the tire defective or am I defective. Dale

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, David Bell wrote: > > I had a blow out of my rear tire going 70 mph today. It was my own fault. I had mounted a new tire and damaged the bead. I did this by failing to compress the tire as I was putting it on the wheel, which allows the bead already on the wheel to get down into the middle of the wheel. This is important because the wheel is smaller diameter in the center and by putting the already pried on tire in the center it gives enough slack in the bead to allow the rest of it to slip on. I had read somewhere to do it and saw the logic, but I failed to do it. Later, when I was putting back on my old tire til another new one gets here, I realized what I had done. > > dave >

Dale, When you removed the other tire did you take care to clean the rim? Crud build up on the bead area of the rim might well be contributing to your problem. Also did you pay close attention to the bead surface area on the tire? If it's damaged or made improperly that might contribute also. Another, less obvious, but very important thing to consider is this. Are you double damn sure that you have the right size tire for the rim? I'm no tire expert but I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express sometime in my dim past. Watch those videos I posted. They're a good refresher even if you have experience.... $bob$ _____ From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dale Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 12:53 AM To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Blow out! I need some guidance here because, I have no idea what Dave is saying and I think it may relate to the problem I am having. I am having trouble mounting an Avon Gripster rear tire on my 2008 w/6k miles. This is my first motorcycle tire change. I didn't have any problems removing the OEM tire, or getting the new tire on the rim; however, when inflated one side of the tire does not seat correctly on rim. For about 8 inches the tire has not "popped" on the rim. When deflated, this is the only section of the tire that unseats from the rim. There is no damage to the rim, or any dirt/grim on the rim. I use windex to lube the tire/rim. I have inflated it to 55lbs. With the bike in the air, and idling in 1st gear, you can see the wobble where the tire is not seated properly. Is the tire defective or am I defective. Dale --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com, David Bell wrote:

> > I had a blow out of my rear tire going 70 mph today. It was my own

fault. I had mounted a new tire and damaged the bead. I did this by failing to compress the tire as I was putting it on the wheel, which allows the bead already on the wheel to get down into the middle of the wheel. This is important because the wheel is smaller diameter in the center and by putting the already pried on tire in the center it gives enough slack in the bead to allow the rest of it to slip on. I had read somewhere to do it and saw the logic, but I failed to do it. Later, when I was putting back on my old tire til another new one gets here, I realized what I had done.

> > dave >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The videos are great! He details how important it is to get the part of the tire down into the dish of the wheel. I will be glad when it's that easy for me. The dude doesn't even sweat. db ----- Original Message ---- From: LDHunter To: Dale ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 4:59:42 AM Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Blow out! Dale, When you removed the other tire did you take care to clean the rim? Crud build up on the bead area of the rim might well be contributing to your problem. Also did you pay close attention to the bead surface area on the tire? If it's damaged or made improperly that might contribute also. Another, less obvious, but very important thing to consider is this. Are you double damn sure that you have the right size tire for the rim? I'm no tire expert but I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express sometime in my dim past. Watch those videos I posted. They're a good refresher even if you have experience.. .. $bob$ _____ From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Dale Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 12:53 AM To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Blow out! I need some guidance here because, I have no idea what Dave is saying and I think it may relate to the problem I am having. I am having trouble mounting an Avon Gripster rear tire on my 2008 w/6k miles. This is my first motorcycle tire change. I didn't have any problems removing the OEM tire, or getting the new tire on the rim; however, when inflated one side of the tire does not seat correctly on rim. For about 8 inches the tire has not "popped" on the rim. When deflated, this is the only section of the tire that unseats from the rim. There is no damage to the rim, or any dirt/grim on the rim. I use windex to lube the tire/rim. I have inflated it to 55lbs. With the bike in the air, and idling in 1st gear, you can see the wobble where the tire is not seated properly. Is the tire defective or am I defective. Dale --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com, David Bell wrote:

> > I had a blow out of my rear tire going 70 mph today. It was my own

fault. I had mounted a new tire and damaged the bead. I did this by failing to compress the tire as I was putting it on the wheel, which allows the bead already on the wheel to get down into the middle of the wheel. This is important because the wheel is smaller diameter in the center and by putting the already pried on tire in the center it gives enough slack in the bead to allow the rest of it to slip on. I had read somewhere to do it and saw the logic, but I failed to do it. Later, when I was putting back on my old tire til another new one gets here, I realized what I had done.

> > dave >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I changed a lot of tires as a lad and change my own bike tires by hand now. I worked with mostly truck and farm tires but some things are universal, one being, never inflate an unseated tire to more than 35 PSI. If it does not pop" by that pressure, you have a problem. Look at your tire sidewall just before the bead. There is a very fine line around the bead. That is there to help you center the bead. When a tire is inflated, this "cc" ring should be visible evenly all the way around the edge of the rim. If it arc's away from the rim, so does the bead and it is ready to blow off of the rim, destroying your new tire and tube and possibly injuring you. Though a motorcycle tire is not very large, it contains quite a bit of force. Throw the Windex away and purchase a 1 pint bottle of ( sorry about the plug but this stuff works) Murphy oil soap. I dismount, mount and seat my tires with this soap and they usually "pop' before 20 PSI. I DO NOT ride my 05 KLR with reduced pressure and with 49,000 miles and countless rear tires, I have NEVER had a tire slip on the rim with this product. Hope this helps, Eric 05 KLR 93 BMW K1100 RS -------Original Message------- From: LDHunter Date: 9/28/2008 4:59:50 AM To: 'Dale'; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Blow out! Dale, When you removed the other tire did you take care to clean the rim? Crud build up on the bead area of the rim might well be contributing to your problem. Also did you pay close attention to the bead surface area on the tire? If it's damaged or made improperly that might contribute also. Another, less obvious, but very important thing to consider is this. Are you double damn sure that you have the right size tire for the rim? I'm no tire expert but I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express sometime in my dim past. Watch those videos I posted. They're a good refresher even if you have experience.... $bob$ _____ From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dale Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 12:53 AM To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Blow out! I need some guidance here because, I have no idea what Dave is saying and I think it may relate to the problem I am having. I am having trouble mounting an Avon Gripster rear tire on my 2008 w/6k miles. This is my first motorcycle tire change. I didn't have any problems removing the OEM tire, or getting the new tire on the rim; however, when inflated one side of the tire does not seat correctly on rim. For about 8 inches the tire has not "popped" on the rim. When deflated, this is the only section of the tire that unseats from the rim. There is no damage to the rim, or any dirt/grim on the rim. I use windex to lube the tire/rim. I have inflated it to 55lbs. With the bike in the air, and idling in 1st gear, you can see the wobble where the tire is not seated properly. Is the tire defective or am I defective. Dale --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com, David Bell wrote:

> > I had a blow out of my rear tire going 70 mph today. It was my own

fault. I had mounted a new tire and damaged the bead. I did this by failing to compress the tire as I was putting it on the wheel, which allows the bead already on the wheel to get down into the middle of the wheel. This is important because the wheel is smaller diameter in the center and by putting the already pried on tire in the center it gives enough slack in the bead to allow the rest of it to slip on. I had read somewhere to do it and saw the logic, but I failed to do it. Later, when I was putting back on my old tire til another new one gets here, I realized what I had done.

> > dave >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 04:52:32 -0000 "Dale" writes:

> I need some guidance here because, I have no idea what Dave is saying > > and I think it may relate to the problem I am having. I am having > trouble mounting an Avon Gripster rear tire on my 2008 w/6k miles. > > This is my first motorcycle tire change. I didn't have any problems > > removing the OEM tire, or getting the new tire on the rim; however, > > when inflated one side of the tire does not seat correctly on rim. > > For about 8 inches the tire has not "popped" on the rim. When > deflated, this is the only section of the tire that unseats from the > > rim. There is no damage to the rim, or any dirt/grim on the rim. I > > use windex to lube the tire/rim. I have inflated it to 55lbs. > > With the bike in the air, and idling in 1st gear, you can see the > wobble where the tire is not seated properly. > > Is the tire defective or am I defective. > > Dale

<><><><><><><><><> <><><><>><><><><><><> Dale, I'm gonna bet it's the technique used to mount the tire that's defective. : ) When I get a stubborn section of the bead that just doesn't want to seat what I normally do is make sure the lube is still slippery around the entire bead. Then I push the opposite side of the bead into the center of the wheel hoping the stubborn section will seat first. I then inflate (I always inflate with the core out of the valve) while holding the opposite side of the stubborn section in as long as I can. Usually I have to do this a few times to get the stubborn section to seat. And sometimes I have to hold my finger over the valve (holding in the air pressure) for one to two minutes while I watch the bead slowly move into place. Once the bead is seated I can let the air out or install the valve core. Having the core out of the valve when trying to seat the bead has a couple of purposes. First is safety in that if there is a problem all I have to do is let go of the chuck and walk (run) away and the tire is self deflating. Next is without the obstruction/restriction of the core air will pass with less resistance. This is more important on tubeless applications but I still feel it's helpful. Last is it saves a lot of time since on many tires you have to play with inflating and deflating a few times to get everything just right. I saw it was already mentioned but in my shop no tires go on wheels that don't have clean bead seating areas (rims). If the rim has never been cleaned before it often gets attention with a wire wheel for about 10 minutes to remove accumulated crud. If it's a "regular" the rim only needs a good wiping with acetone on a rag to remove the latest build-up of rubber and crud. Clean, burr free rims make a world of difference when mounting tires. We also always use real tire lube in a spray bottle. I know other stuff like windex, dish soap and tire talc works but I prefer the real deal when it's available. Hope this is helpful. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT ____________________________________________________________ Click here to become a professional counselor in less time than you think. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3oJto31UiUAgQYEKuQ50SLuovDD1oSgkc1kllgfJelVOaFWM/

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, David Bell wrote:

> > I had a blow out of my rear tire going 70 mph today. It was my own

fault. I had mounted a new tire and damaged the bead. I did this by failing to compress the tire as I was putting it on the wheel, which allows the bead already on the wheel to get down into the middle of the wheel. This is important because the wheel is smaller diameter in the center and by putting the already pried on tire in the center it gives enough slack in the bead to allow the rest of it to slip on. I had read somewhere to do it and saw the logic, but I failed to do it. Later, when I was putting back on my old tire til another new one gets here, I realized what I had done.

> > So anyway, I took the bike out for a test drive. The new tires are

Continental TK80's and I wanted to see how they did at highway speed, since I had some Kenda street tires on the bike when I bought it.

> > The tires did fine. I was surprised at how smooth they felt. They

did not seem to whine or squirm at all. So, I'm perking along going 70 mph (GPS speed) when I hear a very loud bang. For a split second nothing happened, then the bike swerved violently to the right (I think) as the tire came halfway off the wheel. I did not put on the brakes, I just instinctively steered gently back to my proper spot on the road. Then the bike swerved violently to the left (I think). Again, I just gently steered back into my lane. This repeated itself about 7-8 times. The swerves were very wide, nearly the whole roadway. Of course, I had let off the gas but I never started braking hard until I had slowed way down, then I pulled off the road and stopped. A couple of cars stopped and the people in the cars said "Are you all right?" They looked very freaked out and concerned. One middle aged guy said he thought I was going down for sure. A couple of teen age

> boys stopped and said the same thing, except they were very excited

and laughing.

> > The funny thing about all this, was as I was swerving back and

forth, I was thinking of the clothes I had on. I had on a very good Schuberth Helmet (real glad about that) but I had on a T shirt (not glad) and some thin camo fatigue pants (not glad) and running shoes (not glad). I was swerving down the road at 70 mph and taking inventory of my (lack of) protective gear.

> > You can tell me I'm stupid if you want to, because I felt pretty

stupid. I had a feeling that I had pried on that tire too hard and possibly damaged it. I also should have worked up to 70 mph instead of just gunning it on up, and I should have had on more gear.

> > I confess this so that maybe someone else won't get hurt. > > dave

Don't understand how and what damage you did to the bead during installation, and what failed in the tire to cause the blow-out. What kind if tire mounting lubricant did you use? Are you sure it wasn't something other than bead damage that caused your tire to blow-out? ED,,,,,confused

I failed to get the half seated bead down into the center of the wheel, which meant I did not have enough diameter on the bead of the tire to allow it to slip on the wheel without undue force. Attempting to force it on stretched and broke the cable in the bead. I am positive that this is what caused the blow out. I thought I felt something break when I was levering the tire on, but could not see anything wrong. If you watch the videos that LDHunter posted, you will see what I mean. Perhaps blow out is not the right term. The tire came off the wheel in a very abrupt and very noisy way, and the tube has a 6" split. The bead of the tire is now clearly broken. Let me know if you still don't understand and I'll try to post pictures somewhere sometime. db ----- Original Message ---- From: Ed Dobson To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 9:54:46 AM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Blow out!

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com, David Bell wrote: > > I had a blow out of my rear tire going 70 mph today. It was my own fault. I had mounted a new tire and damaged the bead. I did this by failing to compress the tire as I was putting it on the wheel, which allows the bead already on the wheel to get down into the middle of the wheel. This is important because the wheel is smaller diameter in the center and by putting the already pried on tire in the center it gives enough slack in the bead to allow the rest of it to slip on. I had read somewhere to do it and saw the logic, but I failed to do it. Later, when I was putting back on my old tire til another new one gets here, I realized what I had done. > > So anyway, I took the bike out for a test drive. The new tires are Continental TK80's and I wanted to see how they did at highway speed, since I had some Kenda street tires on the bike when I bought it. > > The tires did fine. I was surprised at how smooth they felt. They did not seem to whine or squirm at all. So, I'm perking along going 70 mph (GPS speed) when I hear a very loud bang. For a split second nothing happened, then the bike swerved violently to the right (I think) as the tire came halfway off the wheel. I did not put on the brakes, I just instinctively steered gently back to my proper spot on the road. Then the bike swerved violently to the left (I think). Again, I just gently steered back into my lane. This repeated itself about 7-8 times. The swerves were very wide, nearly the whole roadway. Of course, I had let off the gas but I never started braking hard until I had slowed way down, then I pulled off the road and stopped. A couple of cars stopped and the people in the cars said "Are you all right?" They looked very freaked out and concerned. One middle aged guy said he thought I was going down for sure. A couple of teen age > boys stopped and said the same thing, except they were very excited and laughing. > > The funny thing about all this, was as I was swerving back and forth, I was thinking of the clothes I had on. I had on a very good Schuberth Helmet (real glad about that) but I had on a T shirt (not glad) and some thin camo fatigue pants (not glad) and running shoes (not glad). I was swerving down the road at 70 mph and taking inventory of my (lack of) protective gear. > > You can tell me I'm stupid if you want to, because I felt pretty stupid. I had a feeling that I had pried on that tire too hard and possibly damaged it. I also should have worked up to 70 mph instead of just gunning it on up, and I should have had on more gear. > > I confess this so that maybe someone else won't get hurt. > > dave Don't understand how and what damage you did to the bead during installation, and what failed in the tire to cause the blow-out. What kind if tire mounting lubricant did you use? Are you sure it wasn't something other than bead damage that caused your tire to blow-out? ED,,,,,confused [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]