clutch cable examination

[LDHunter]

I just came from a Car Quest auto parts and they're selling Valvoline 10-40 (not synthetic) Motorcycle oil for $3.99 per quart. Even our Yamaha dealer only charges $4.50 per quart for "Yamalube" if you buy in the gallon jugs. Not so bad. _____ From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of boulder_adv_rider Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 9:11 PM To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_KLR650] motorcycle oil vs. ATV oil vs. auto vs. marine....and going back to 1994 I think the marketing hype continues to get even better. I see companies like Valvoline are marketing ATV oil as opposed to motorcycle oil as opposed to car oil as opposed to Marine oil... I just got off the phone with NAPA to see which oils it carried: Valvoline MC oil. $6/qt and no volume/case discount. So that's $24/gallon or 42 gallons x $24 = $1,008/barrel! And here we thought the Arabs were gouging us! Makes gasoline look cheap at $4/gal. Of course, the NAPA salesman couldn't tell me why $1,008 is justified but kindly referred me to the Valvoline techline (800) 354-8957. Something tells me on the other end of the line I'll find a petrolpsychologist [sic] who is desperately trained to convince anyone MC is critical, must-use and most definitely worth $1,008/gallon. Anyway, this link (below) dates back to 1994, and I think it is still relevant today--which is why I'm posting it. I will note that those running higher mileage between oil changes and/or more demanding conditions might benefit from synthetic oil vs. standard oil because of synthetic's ability to retain it's viscosity rating longer. Again, if you don't like changing oil frequently, synthetic might be better. Of course, moto synthetic vs. auto...well, all expensive so I'd stick with the moto blend. For me, 10W-40 API SM class (as per my owner's manual) seems to work fine. But understand I'm not here to sell anything nor convince anyone of anything. Rather I'm sharing my experience and some info. Right now, my cost per oil change is $10 ($7 in 10W-40 Pennzoil and $3 filter) vs. one quart of any moto-specific oil ranges from $6 to $10/qt so average $8 * 2.5 = $20 excluding filter. Of course, people claim moto-specific oils benefit wet clutches and transmission gears (won't pit critical gears? I find this laughable as I've never seen a pitted gear with any brand of 10W-40). But most importantly is the results from experience which support my choice to continue using standard auto oil with the latest/greatest API rating which is SM. Using API SM 10W-40 Pennzoil (so far 3 oil changes and last one without changing filter) showed negligible wear in my new EBC clutch plates (heavy duty springs installed) over 6k rigorous miles. I just measured the clutch plates and EBC friction plates (for wear and warp) and they actually measure very close to new ones. Incredible, yes. Of course, the last 4k miles on this ultra-ride were hard on everything (trip ended when valve clearances closed to nothing...I DO NOT recommend resurfacing intake valves). At one point riding down to Butch Cassidy's hide-out (those that have been here know trails like this are hard on the clutch), my 20k-mile, worn clutch cable proved because out of adjustment. The clutch started slipping bad until I adjusted it (noticing broken strands of cable...yikes!). After the adjustment, I was back in business and today just replaced it with a Motion Pro Terminator...it feels great! The point I'm making here is I'm hard on the clutch and normally I get no slippage. I do wheelies, shots...the works and I don't notice a difference. Furthermore the slipping that occurred with the out-of- adjustment apparently caused no detectable wear or damage. This is enough proof for me. Of course, your results may very. http://www.xs11 http://www.xs11.com/stories/mcnoil94.htm> com/stories/mcnoil94.htm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Shane]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, LDHunter wrote:

>

Where are you getting KLR filters for $3.-?!!?

> I just came from a Car Quest auto parts and they're selling

Valvoline 10-40

> (not synthetic) Motorcycle oil for $3.99 per quart. > > > > Even our Yamaha dealer only charges $4.50 per quart for "Yamalube"

if you

> buy in the gallon jugs. > > > > Not so bad. > > > > _____ > > From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On

> Behalf Of boulder_adv_rider > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 9:11 PM > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] motorcycle oil vs. ATV oil vs. auto vs.

marine....and

> going back to 1994 > > > > I think the marketing hype continues to get even better. I see > companies like Valvoline are marketing ATV oil as opposed to > motorcycle oil as opposed to car oil as opposed to Marine oil... > > I just got off the phone with NAPA to see which oils it carried: > Valvoline MC oil. $6/qt and no volume/case discount. So that's > $24/gallon or 42 gallons x $24 = $1,008/barrel! And here we thought > the Arabs were gouging us! Makes gasoline look cheap at $4/gal. Of > course, the NAPA salesman couldn't tell me why $1,008 is justified > but kindly referred me to the Valvoline techline (800) 354-8957. > Something tells me on the other end of the line I'll find a > petrolpsychologist [sic] who is desperately trained to convince > anyone MC is critical, must-use and most definitely worth > $1,008/gallon. > > Anyway, this link (below) dates back to 1994, and I think it is

still

> relevant today--which is why I'm posting it. I will note that those > running higher mileage between oil changes and/or more demanding > conditions might benefit from synthetic oil vs. standard oil

because

> of synthetic's ability to retain it's viscosity rating longer. > Again, if you don't like changing oil frequently, synthetic might

be

> better. Of course, moto synthetic vs. auto...well, all expensive so > I'd stick with the moto blend. > > For me, 10W-40 API SM class (as per my owner's manual) seems to

work

> fine. But understand I'm not here to sell anything nor convince > anyone of anything. Rather I'm sharing my experience and some info. > > Right now, my cost per oil change is $10 ($7 in 10W-40 Pennzoil and > $3 filter) vs. one quart of any moto-specific oil ranges from $6 to > $10/qt so average $8 * 2.5 = $20 excluding filter. Of course,

people

> claim moto-specific oils benefit wet clutches and transmission

gears

> (won't pit critical gears? I find this laughable as I've never seen > a pitted gear with any brand of 10W-40). But most importantly is

the

> results from experience which support my choice to continue using > standard auto oil with the latest/greatest API rating which is SM. > > Using API SM 10W-40 Pennzoil (so far 3 oil changes and last one > without changing filter) showed negligible wear in my new EBC

clutch

> plates (heavy duty springs installed) over 6k rigorous miles. I

just

> measured the clutch plates and EBC friction plates (for wear and > warp) and they actually measure very close to new ones. Incredible, > yes. Of course, the last 4k miles on this ultra-ride were hard on > everything (trip ended when valve clearances closed to nothing...I

DO

> NOT recommend resurfacing intake valves). At one point riding down > to Butch Cassidy's hide-out (those that have been here know trails > like this are hard on the clutch), my 20k-mile, worn clutch cable > proved because out of adjustment. The clutch started slipping bad > until I adjusted it (noticing broken strands of cable...yikes!). > After the adjustment, I was back in business and today just

replaced

> it with a Motion Pro Terminator...it feels great! The point I'm > making here is I'm hard on the clutch and normally I get no > slippage. I do wheelies, shots...the works and I don't notice a > difference. Furthermore the slipping that occurred with the out-of- > adjustment apparently caused no detectable wear or damage. This is > enough proof for me. Of course, your results may very. > > http://www.xs11 http://www.xs11.com/stories/mcnoil94.htm> > com/stories/mcnoil94.htm > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

[Ross Lindberg]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Shane" wrote:

> > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, LDHunter wrote: > > > Where are you getting KLR filters for $3.-?!!? >

I can get them at a local Kawasaki ATV dealer for the same price. They are made by EMGO, but you can't beat the price. Kawa dealer in Detroit Lakes where I purchased my bike charges 9 bucks for a Kawi filter. Kawasaki in Fargo charges 6.75 for the same filter. I guess it pays to shop around. Ross Lindberg Fertile, MN

[dooden]

I used to buy a few at a time through supplier at work, happen to sell Recreation products at the time, and at our cost, even I ordered 3 or 4 at a time for the EMGO's. Pretty sure Fred sells for like $3 also, just order a few at a time to make the shipping worth it. Speaking of which... due an oil change myself. Been using Honda GN4 I think, happen to work at a dealer so cost was reasonable to me anyway. But have ran Penz, Shell and even Walmart brand without any issues, mostly make sure its full of oil, change it couple 3 times a year for most folks and you should never have an oil related issue with a KLR. Dooden (Paying retail again sucks) A15 (Still locked up in the garage in Chicago) --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Ross Lindberg" wrote:

> > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Shane" wrote: > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, LDHunter wrote: > > > > > Where are you getting KLR filters for $3.-?!!? > > > I can get them at a local Kawasaki ATV dealer for the same price.

They

> are made by EMGO, but you can't beat the price. Kawa dealer in

Detroit

> Lakes where I purchased my bike charges 9 bucks for a Kawi filter. > Kawasaki in Fargo charges 6.75 for the same filter. I guess it

pays to

> shop around. > > Ross Lindberg > Fertile, MN >

[dooden]

I used to buy a few at a time through supplier at work, happen to sell Recreation products at the time, and at our cost, even I ordered 3 or 4 at a time for the EMGO's. Pretty sure Fred sells for like $3 also, just order a few at a time to make the shipping worth it. Speaking of which... due an oil change myself. Been using Honda GN4 I think, happen to work at a dealer so cost was reasonable to me anyway. But have ran Penz, Shell and even Walmart brand without any issues, mostly make sure its full of oil, change it couple 3 times a year for most folks and you should never have an oil related issue with a KLR. Dooden (Paying retail again sucks) A15 (Still locked up in the garage in Chicago) --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Ross Lindberg" wrote:

> > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Shane" wrote: > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, LDHunter wrote: > > > > > Where are you getting KLR filters for $3.-?!!? > > > I can get them at a local Kawasaki ATV dealer for the same price.

They

> are made by EMGO, but you can't beat the price. Kawa dealer in

Detroit

> Lakes where I purchased my bike charges 9 bucks for a Kawi filter. > Kawasaki in Fargo charges 6.75 for the same filter. I guess it

pays to

> shop around. > > Ross Lindberg > Fertile, MN >

[boulder_adv_rider]

Arrowhead (Fred) sells 10 for $29.99 (item 20-4322), so technically $2.999/each. http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/parts_frames.html As for oil, I get Pennzoil 10W-40 in a 5-quart jug from Walmart (my initial post I said 4qts or 1-gal but I remember Penn went to a 5Q when Castrol began offerring 5Q jug). Pennzoil 10W-40 5Q jug is reg $12, I got the last 4 jugs for $11/ea. Two years ago I got a 5-quart jug of Castrol GTX for $5.99 (Wally or Target). So an oil change was $6.00. It's up to $9. I said $10 in my initial post but really you get 2 changes with a 5-qt jug or $6 each plus $3 filter. Of course Big Oil lost control of itself once oil prices started going up. Even with oil now at $92/barrel (42 gallons)--down from $145!--most of these ridiculous oil companies are still raping people with motor oil. For example, even at $12/5-quarts for Pennzoil at Walmart, this still translates to $403/barrel! This is for the standard stuff. Moto-specific oils like Belray Thumper start at $8/qt or a whopping $1,344/barrel! Who's [continuing] to gouge us??? Funny, with a coupon I can get the same oil change for my car and truck for around $24 from a Jiffy or competitor. $6/qt for moto- specific Valvoline oil at NAPA is a joke in my opinion. Ever wonder why NAPA doesn't offer more moto-specific oils?? Probably not enough suckers. Shelf space is expensive and NAPA isn't going to stock something that shrewd consumers will skip.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Shane" wrote: > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, LDHunter wrote: > > > Where are you getting KLR filters for $3.-?!!? > > > > > I just came from a Car Quest auto parts and they're selling > Valvoline 10-40 > > (not synthetic) Motorcycle oil for $3.99 per quart. > > > > > > > > Even our Yamaha dealer only charges $4.50 per quart for "Yamalube" > if you > > buy in the gallon jugs. > > > > > > > > Not so bad. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of boulder_adv_rider > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 9:11 PM > > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] motorcycle oil vs. ATV oil vs. auto vs. > marine....and > > going back to 1994 > > > > > > > > I think the marketing hype continues to get even better. I see > > companies like Valvoline are marketing ATV oil as opposed to > > motorcycle oil as opposed to car oil as opposed to Marine oil... > > > > I just got off the phone with NAPA to see which oils it carried: > > Valvoline MC oil. $6/qt and no volume/case discount. So that's > > $24/gallon or 42 gallons x $24 = $1,008/barrel! And here we thought > > the Arabs were gouging us! Makes gasoline look cheap at $4/gal. Of > > course, the NAPA salesman couldn't tell me why $1,008 is justified > > but kindly referred me to the Valvoline techline (800) 354-8957. > > Something tells me on the other end of the line I'll find a > > petrolpsychologist [sic] who is desperately trained to convince > > anyone MC is critical, must-use and most definitely worth > > $1,008/gallon. > > > > Anyway, this link (below) dates back to 1994, and I think it is > still > > relevant today--which is why I'm posting it. I will note that those > > running higher mileage between oil changes and/or more demanding > > conditions might benefit from synthetic oil vs. standard oil > because > > of synthetic's ability to retain it's viscosity rating longer. > > Again, if you don't like changing oil frequently, synthetic might > be > > better. Of course, moto synthetic vs. auto...well, all expensive so > > I'd stick with the moto blend. > > > > For me, 10W-40 API SM class (as per my owner's manual) seems to > work > > fine. But understand I'm not here to sell anything nor convince > > anyone of anything. Rather I'm sharing my experience and some info. > > > > Right now, my cost per oil change is $10 ($7 in 10W-40 Pennzoil and > > $3 filter) vs. one quart of any moto-specific oil ranges from $6 to > > $10/qt so average $8 * 2.5 = $20 excluding filter. Of course, > people > > claim moto-specific oils benefit wet clutches and transmission > gears > > (won't pit critical gears? I find this laughable as I've never seen > > a pitted gear with any brand of 10W-40). But most importantly is > the > > results from experience which support my choice to continue using > > standard auto oil with the latest/greatest API rating which is SM. > > > > Using API SM 10W-40 Pennzoil (so far 3 oil changes and last one > > without changing filter) showed negligible wear in my new EBC > clutch > > plates (heavy duty springs installed) over 6k rigorous miles. I > just > > measured the clutch plates and EBC friction plates (for wear and > > warp) and they actually measure very close to new ones. Incredible, > > yes. Of course, the last 4k miles on this ultra-ride were hard on > > everything (trip ended when valve clearances closed to nothing...I > DO > > NOT recommend resurfacing intake valves). At one point riding down > > to Butch Cassidy's hide-out (those that have been here know trails > > like this are hard on the clutch), my 20k-mile, worn clutch cable > > proved because out of adjustment. The clutch started slipping bad > > until I adjusted it (noticing broken strands of cable...yikes!). > > After the adjustment, I was back in business and today just > replaced > > it with a Motion Pro Terminator...it feels great! The point I'm > > making here is I'm hard on the clutch and normally I get no > > slippage. I do wheelies, shots...the works and I don't notice a > > difference. Furthermore the slipping that occurred with the out- of- > > adjustment apparently caused no detectable wear or damage. This is > > enough proof for me. Of course, your results may very. > > > > http://www.xs11 http://www.xs11.com/stories/mcnoil94.htm> > > com/stories/mcnoil94.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

[boulder_adv_rider]

$9 for a filter??? Ah of course...because "engineered specifically for KLR 650." What a friggin bunch of hooey. I use the Emgos myself. It's amazing watching Americans fall for marketing. They'll squeal about $4/gal gas with enough energy in it to move them 20 or even 50 miles but then anxiously race to the parts counter with 3-quarts of "motospecificsuperhyperultrasyntheticblend oil" and joyfully pay $35 in an oily-the-best-for-my-baby kinda way. Interesting us humans...

[Reverend]

The oil we buy is crude though, whereas the slop we buy in the stores has been refined and mixed with additives. Synthetic is an entirely different animal as (in theory) it isn't based on crude. The only issue I've heard of between automotive and motorcycle oils is the additives that sometimes might make a wet clutch slip. I've never experienced it with all my years of riding motorcycles and using whatever oil is handy/cheap.

> -----Original Message----- > Behalf Of boulder_adv_rider > going up. Even with oil now at $92/barrel (42 gallons)--down from > $145!--most of these ridiculous oil companies are still raping people

[boulder_adv_rider]

I'm just over 20k miles and replacing my clutch cable. Basically it's starting to fray at the bottom (near the clutch release lever end). Cosmetically, it has a massive cut and gouge in the outer protector material (black housing and cable itself not compromised) where the cable is exposed near the back of the front fender. The lower guide (near the plastic coolant tank) somehow got bent down essentially kinking the cable. This might be the source problem of my clutch adjustment made during my last trip. As for periodic maintenance, I lubed regularly the stock cable with Pedros Extra Dry (bicycle) lube. Great stuff. Motion Pro cable luber is easy and makes doing all the cables a pleasure. Overall I'm pleased with 20k miles for the stock cable. It's been reliable under fire no doubt. It's stretched and likely has a few more miles but seeing frayed wire, it's not worth taking chances. I suggest listas check theirs if they haven't recently. From a distance mine looked fine, but on closer examination it proved damaged. So today, I replaced it with a Motion Pro Terminator ($29.99). This is almost twice the price of the stock cable ($16), so we'll have to see if it lives up to marketing claims/advantages. Maybe someone else has used it as well and can comment on longevity, feel and value over the stock. After installation, the action feels showroom new. But until I get back my top end, the only shifting I'm doing in on my keyboard. Brian

[boulder_adv_rider]

Rev - Not all synthetics are devoid of crude, but true for pure synthetics marketed today. It's a complicated topic to discuss, so those interested in syns, I suggest this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil Of course, crude-based auto oil is refined crude plus additives but this does not drive up the price dramatically. Without getting too deep here, autos are limited in additives by law vs. motorcycle oil. This seeming explains why some m/c oils have more/better additives thus increasing the price. In fact, you'll find some m/c oils marketed as "off-road use only." But these additives are not platinum or iridium. Additives are nominal to overall cost. Now with true synthetics, you'll find exclusive additives arguably providing friction reduction and added corrosion-resistance. However, these would not benefit wet clutches. Theoretically, I agree they'd contribute to slippage. So auto full synthetic vs moto full synthetic...I'm not sure what could be added and to such an extent that it would be of such marginal benefit to the consumer it'd be worth the extraordinary purchase price. Now, if we were talking airplanes, I could make a very good case! Beyond base oil, you start talking needs to mitigate extraoridinary heat and pressures associated with metal to metal contact, and in today's moto engines this doesn't occur (think sophisticated bearings here, improvements in engine oil flow design, materials, and oil additives themselves). Bottom-line...yes, standard brand name oil never hurt anyone. But if it makes people sleep better and they have money to burn, let the oil companies help them RIP.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Reverend" wrote: > > The oil we buy is crude though, whereas the slop we buy in the stores has > been refined and mixed with additives. Synthetic is an entirely different > animal as (in theory) it isn't based on crude. > > The only issue I've heard of between automotive and motorcycle oils is the > additives that sometimes might make a wet clutch slip. I've never > experienced it with all my years of riding motorcycles and using whatever > oil is handy/cheap. > > > -----Original Message----- > > Behalf Of boulder_adv_rider > > > going up. Even with oil now at $92/barrel (42 gallons)--down from > > $145!--most of these ridiculous oil companies are still raping people >