Wilsons Sandbox

On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 00:16:39 -0000 "traderpro2003" writes:

> I splashed it with Bacardi Mojito (malt beverage) and it started > right up. It appears my initial selection of ale was wrong or > inappropriate. Now the facts... > > It was the intake valves (as Jeff seemed to indicate). Basically, > the gaps were zero. Exhausts fine and unchanged from the last > adjustment. Interestingly, I did the valves awhile ago (12/1/07) > and > maxed the intake clearances at .008 and exhausts at .01. This was > after having the top end rebuilt and re-break-in riding. I'm a bit > > shocked it could eat .008 in intake clearance in just over 2,000 > miles! Now, I installed 220 on the left intake and 235 on the right > > giving me .005 and .006, respectively. I would have gone for the > full-monty .008 but the shims weren't available. Again, exhausts > were fine at .01 and no adjustment necessary. Which begs a serioius > > question... > > What do you do when you measure the intake and a 210 shim (minimum) > > isn't thin enough? I mean I just went from 240 on the left to 220 > and from 250 to 235 on the right. I'm worried after another several > > thousand miles more the clearance will close and the 210 won't be > thin enough. > > Also, I'd like to note prior to doing the valve > inspection/adjustment, I removed and fully disassembled/cleaned the > > carb. It made no difference. Simply it wouldn't start. Then after > > the valve adjustment, it fired right up like normal with full-choke. > > I'll drink to that! ...or just about anything. > > Thanks everyone for the responses. - Brian

<><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><> Brian, Glad you figured out what was wrong and got it fixed, at least for now. That does seem like a lot of clearance getting eaten up in a short time. I wonder about the work done on the head and valves. Did valves get replaced? How about valve seats, reground or replaced and ground? It sounds like your intake valves are sitting too deep into the head. That could be caused by grinding valves and seats. Then not grinding stem heads makes the valve stem stick too far up through the head which is closer to the cam than specs allow. Not all valves can be safely ground so it may be time to start thinking about new valves and possibly valve seats. If a valve pulls through the seat you have a good possibility of losing the keeper and allowing the valve to fall into the combustion chamber. When the piston contacts it many bad things have an opportunity to happen. Bent valve, damaged head, damaged piston, rod, cylinder etc all come to mind. The cam could get damaged too along with the rest of the valve actuating system. I think the place I'd consider for head work that would be top notch is Schnitz Racing in Indiana I think. If you google 685 kit I think you can get contact info. Cary is the guy that makes the KLR magic happen. I don't remember if you can see a valve through the sparkplug hole. If you can maybe you can see what the face of the valve looks like. But I think the best check will include removing the head and taking measurements. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT ____________________________________________________________ Free quote and debt consolidation information. Click Here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3m2Xhsd5G5Qpe4BHOuBt6smakamhCpgJZE50SdClglqtP0g8/

Jeff - Thanks. Well, it's always good to start with good advice and conversation from this board. I'm delighted I got this solved albeit temporarily. I feared the valves weren't behaving as the last time it didn't run well, the valves were the magic. This clearance issue/pattern really has me concerned. Your list of potential problems makes me nervous as I already spent $2k getting the top-end rebuilt. I'm going to review my bill and contact the dealer on Tues. I know they honed the cylinder (new piston/rings) and replaced at least one intake valve...basically reworking the entire top-end...whatever needed to be done. I explained I'm hard on the bike and rely on it waaaay out there. So he understood I didn't want some bandaid job. Anyway, you'd like to think they did everything to get it like-new. But who knows at this point. I need to get the facts. Thanks for the link on Schnitz. Next time I'll simply send it to them. The local repair took months and it still bungled things like loosing fasteners and replacing them with Walmart-grade (unacceptable). The machine shop lost my exhaust manifold stubs and simple "surprised me." Try replacing those! Cut my radiator hose and order the wrong one/part 3-times! Right now I'm hoping the valve are simply settling in. I will say after the break-in, I was surprised to see the clearance so little. Basically, I'm saying now (just settling-in) what I said when I did the adjustments back in December...some 2k miles ago! This doesn't seem normal. Right now with 220 in the left and .005 clearance, simply I don't have much wiggle room. Something isn't right save the exhaust valves.

> Brian, > > Glad you figured out what was wrong and got it fixed, at least for

now.

> > That does seem like a lot of clearance getting eaten up in a short

time.

> I wonder about the work done on the head and valves. Did valves get > replaced? How about valve seats, reground or replaced and ground?

It

> sounds like your intake valves are sitting too deep into the head.

That

> could be caused by grinding valves and seats. Then not grinding

stem

> heads makes the valve stem stick too far up through the head which

is

> closer to the cam than specs allow. Not all valves can be safely

ground

> so it may be time to start thinking about new valves and possibly

valve

> seats. If a valve pulls through the seat you have a good

possibility of

> losing the keeper and allowing the valve to fall into the combustion > chamber. When the piston contacts it many bad things have an

opportunity

> to happen. Bent valve, damaged head, damaged piston, rod, cylinder

etc

> all come to mind. The cam could get damaged too along with the

rest of

> the valve actuating system. > > I think the place I'd consider for head work that would be top

notch is

> Schnitz Racing in Indiana I think. If you google 685 kit I think

you can

> get contact info. Cary is the guy that makes the KLR magic happen. > > I don't remember if you can see a valve through the sparkplug

hole. If

> you can maybe you can see what the face of the valve looks like.

But I

> think the best check will include removing the head and taking > measurements. > > Best, > > Jeff Saline > ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal > Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org > The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota > 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT > ____________________________________________________________ > Free quote and debt consolidation information. Click Here. >

http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3m2Xhsd5G5Qpe4BHOuBt 6smakamhCpgJZE50SdClglqtP0g8/

>

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "traderpro2003" wrote:

> > What do you do when you measure the intake and a 210 shim (minimum) > isn't thin enough? I mean I just went from 240 on the left to 220 > and from 250 to 235 on the right. I'm worried after another several > thousand miles more the clearance will close and the 210 won't be > thin enough. >

The BMW shim kit I recently borrowed for my valve adjustment has shims as thin as 200 (2mm). I don't know if you can get them thinner than that. If the clearance closes up on a 200 shim, it is probably time for new valves or seats.

On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 03:32:03 -0000 "Jud Jones" writes:

> The BMW shim kit I recently borrowed for my valve adjustment has > shims as thin as 200 > (2mm). I don't know if you can get them thinner than that. If the > clearance closes up on a > 200 shim, it is probably time for new valves or seats.

<><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><> Jud, Brian, I just looked up the part numbers for the BMW shims. I looked under the F650GS, 1999-2004 as I BELIEVE but don't know for sure that these are the 29mm diameter shims. http://www.ascycles.com/Illustrated_catalog/F650GS(99-03)/catalog_framese t.html Part numbers for 2.00 through 2.20 are: 2.00 11 32 1 460 147 2.05 11 32 1 460 148 2.10 11 32 1 460 149 2.15 11 32 1 460 150 2.20 11 32 1 460 151 They continue in the same fashion of just changing the last digits through 2.90. Looks like cost is $6.00 per shim at A&S Cycles. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT ____________________________________________________________ Click to shop and compare great deals on trucks. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3l1wbLHWSK209BHIempQ4ClG7sl2ZK8hTbDu2k8RrQg66bSM/

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "traderpro2003" wrote:

> > Good to know, thanks. > > Looking at the bill it appears they might have replaced one intake > valve and one exhaust. Valve and cylinder work was one item > entitled "rebuild top-end and valve job / bore cylinder sub to

Mountain

> Performance" for $205. Total bill was $1,098 of which big things

were

> $179 was for over-sized piston and rings and $450 for tear-down, > inspect and rebuild and $205 for the valve/bore work. >

Hi Traderpro, Just curious--why go through the rebuild and not just an engine from a donor bike? or if you had to do it over...what you you do today? Was there a significant advantage for you to do the overhaul; perhaps it was more expedient for you? revmaaatin.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, LDHunter wrote:

> > KLRistas, > I'm not really interested in "upgrading" to barkbusters or any

other such

> guards as I don't really ride hard enough to need them. > Thanks, > > $bob$

Hello Bob! Hard to help you with 'experience born of tears' if you have already made up your mind.... shrug. However, for the sake of discussion (:~O O=observation O1. If you ride, you might/will/certainly fall down. 01.1 The less you ride, actually increases the statistical probability of falling down due to lack-of-recent-experience 02. If you fall down, you will most likely break something O3. If you armor a 'weak' point in advance, it will cost approx the same as replacing the part, when you break, damage it. O3.1 Compare the cost of a set of barkbuster type devices to a lever + a wind deflector. You will see it pays for itself, and you have the confidence that if you drop it again, you have not broken off your levers and you can still ride it home vs having the sag wagon drag your bike home for you, or worse--to the dealer 04. It is amazing how many people break levers, mirrors, OEM wind deflectors in the garage, in the yard, at the gas station. O4.1 Sometimes the wife/friend/neighbor also helps in changing the bikes 'attitude' from the vertical to the horizontal. Sometimes it is beyond your control--as seen and reported here numerous times. 05. Although you suggest you don't ride much, you DID go over to the KLR dark side and took it to a place of 'danger' even if it were just a sandy shoulder of a paved road. 05.1 The bike is tall, heavy, and sometimes cumbersome. Worse if you don't ride it much. 06. Take a look at your experience this weekend, examine the bike and see what is 'at risk' if you drop it again. Armor those items, and don't look back. S=suggestions S.1 Bark busters (sic) installed protect the levers; cut off the single bolt installation point, drill and tap the bark buster to accept the OEM wind deflector. S2. The mirror perch and the left switch group is 'at risk' when dropped on the left side--it breaks off the mirror. You can move the mirror to the clutch lever perch with a mirror perch available from Fred and others ($12). S3. As often suggested here; ride the bike and discover (which you did!) what you think you need. Riding with other KLR riders quickly validates what are useful farkle items, and other that are sparkle- farkle items. As you have seen, even with the KLR's tank-like-reliability, it has some vulnerabilities--as do all motorcycles, especially if they are ridden as dual-sports. Fortunately, most are easily corrected. The soooner you correct them, the sooner you will really enjoy the bike-- and never give it another thought--until you are picking up the bike (again) and say, "Boy, am I glad I armored XYZ." revmaaatin. who armored heavily, and rides with others who armor heavily