Wilsons Sandbox

I haven't run the bike in weeks, and have had to tax the battery quite a bit to get it started after every re-do of the valve cover (6 attempts thusfar! - long story, not relevant to this thread), I just didn't have the juice to get it started this morning. I was really hoping that I could start her up and the problem would be fixed and my battery would be fully charged after my 1 hour commute. It was 28 degrees and it hasn't run in about a month. I just couldn't start it before running my battery the rest of the way down. That stinks. I had zero intention of buying a battery tender or charger or whatever. Why should I? If you ride every day, you don't need it. Well, I need it now. Now I have to go buy one during lunch. I've never used one. I know you need to remove the left side panel. How do the fellas that attach a trickle charger to it almost daily do it? I can't believe that go to such hassle regularly. Any tips or advice about which one I should buy? Granted, I'm limited by what Heartland Honda http://www.heartlandhonda.com/> in Springdale Arkansas happens to have in stock, but I'll still take suggestions! Also, how long do you think I will need to charge it to get it back to full strength? I would love to charge it a couple of hours tonight and then try it. But if I have to let it sit overnight again, I will. Don+ http://www.heartlandhonda.com/> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Don Pendergraft" wrote:

> > I haven't run the bike in weeks, and have had to tax the battery

quite a bit

> to get it started after every re-do of the valve cover (6 attempts

thusfar!

> - long story, not relevant to this thread), I just didn't have the

juice to

> get it started this morning. I was really hoping that I could start

her up

> and the problem would be fixed and my battery would be fully charged

after

> my 1 hour commute. It was 28 degrees and it hasn't run in about a

month. I

> just couldn't start it before running my battery the rest of the way

down.

> That stinks. I had zero intention of buying a battery tender or

charger or

> whatever. Why should I? If you ride every day, you don't need it.

Well, I

> need it now. Now I have to go buy one during lunch. I've never used

one. I

> know you need to remove the left side panel. How do the fellas that

attach a

> trickle charger to it almost daily do it? I can't believe that go to

such

> hassle regularly. Any tips or advice about which one I should buy?

Granted,

> I'm limited by what Heartland Honda http://www.heartlandhonda.com/> in > Springdale Arkansas happens to have in stock, but I'll still take > suggestions! > > Also, how long do you think I will need to charge it to get it back

to full

> strength? I would love to charge it a couple of hours tonight and

then try

> it. But if I have to let it sit overnight again, I will. > > Don+ > > http://www.heartlandhonda.com/> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Arrowhead Motorsports: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/parts_frames.html 2008 KLR650 Service Manual PIC 32-2430 KLR 650 65.95 One very thick service manual for all your needs on 2008 KLR650 Super Smart Battery Tender Plus PIC 16-7260 12V 63.95 Automatically switches to float mode INFO Battery Tender Junior Charger PIC 16-7262 12V 31.95 Fully automatic battery charger INFO 6V/12V Battery Charger 16-7270 6V/12V 19.95 Trickle charge 6V & 12V batteries at 1/2 amp http://www.yuasabatteries.com/pdfs/TechMan.pdf ED

Thanks Ed! I already have the SM. But I will be buying the charger. I appreciate your help! Don+ -----Original Message----- From: notify@yahoogroups.com [mailto:notify@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ed Dobson Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:40 AM To: Don Pendergraft Subject: Re: Dangit, I have to buy a battery charger! --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Don Pendergraft" wrote:

> > I haven't run the bike in weeks, and have had to tax the battery

quite a bit

> to get it started after every re-do of the valve cover (6 attempts

thusfar!

> - long story, not relevant to this thread), I just didn't have the

juice to

> get it started this morning. I was really hoping that I could start

her up

> and the problem would be fixed and my battery would be fully charged

after

> my 1 hour commute. It was 28 degrees and it hasn't run in about a

month. I

> just couldn't start it before running my battery the rest of the way

down.

> That stinks. I had zero intention of buying a battery tender or

charger or

> whatever. Why should I? If you ride every day, you don't need it.

Well, I

> need it now. Now I have to go buy one during lunch. I've never used

one. I

> know you need to remove the left side panel. How do the fellas that

attach a

> trickle charger to it almost daily do it? I can't believe that go to

such

> hassle regularly. Any tips or advice about which one I should buy?

Granted,

> I'm limited by what Heartland Honda http://www.heartlandhonda.com/> > in Springdale Arkansas happens to have in stock, but I'll still take > suggestions! > > Also, how long do you think I will need to charge it to get it back

to full

> strength? I would love to charge it a couple of hours tonight and

then try

> it. But if I have to let it sit overnight again, I will. > > Don+ > > http://www.heartlandhonda.com/> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Arrowhead Motorsports: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/parts_frames.html 2008 KLR650 Service Manual PIC 32-2430 KLR 650 65.95 One very thick service manual for all your needs on 2008 KLR650 Super Smart Battery Tender Plus PIC 16-7260 12V 63.95 Automatically switches to float mode INFO Battery Tender Junior Charger PIC 16-7262 12V 31.95 Fully automatic battery charger INFO 6V/12V Battery Charger 16-7270 6V/12V 19.95 Trickle charge 6V & 12V batteries at 1/2 amp http://www.yuasabatteries.com/pdfs/TechMan.pdf ED

On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 08:43:42AM -0600, Don Pendergraft wrote:

> Thanks Ed! I already have the SM. But I will be buying the charger. I > appreciate your help!

Battery tenders are SLOW, only about a 1 amp charging rate. That's a good thing for small batteries, actually, but don't expect it to make much of a difference on a fully discharged battery in a couple hours. The stock lead/acid battery Kawasaki installs is crap. You should go right away and get an AGM (Absorbed Glass Matt) type battery. They require no maintenance and if you had one in there right now your engine would have started. They also don't overflow acid or require the frequent topping up with distilled water that the stock battery requires. There really is no downside to an AGM battery for your KLR. Michael -- "It's not what I don't understand about religion that bothers me, it's what I do understand." -- Mark Twain San Francisco, CA

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 08:16:01 -0600 "Don Pendergraft" writes:

> I haven't run the bike in weeks, and have had to tax the battery > quite a bit > to get it started after every re-do of the valve cover (6 attempts > thusfar! > - long story, not relevant to this thread), I just didn't have the > juice to > get it started this morning. I was really hoping that I could start > her up > and the problem would be fixed and my battery would be fully charged > after > my 1 hour commute. It was 28 degrees and it hasn't run in about a > month. I > just couldn't start it before running my battery the rest of the way > down. > That stinks. I had zero intention of buying a battery tender or > charger or > whatever. Why should I? If you ride every day, you don't need it. > Well, I > need it now. Now I have to go buy one during lunch. I've never used > one. I > know you need to remove the left side panel. How do the fellas that > attach a > trickle charger to it almost daily do it? I can't believe that go to > such > hassle regularly. Any tips or advice about which one I should buy? > Granted, > I'm limited by what Heartland Honda http://www.heartlandhonda.com/> > in > Springdale Arkansas happens to have in stock, but I'll still take > suggestions! > > Also, how long do you think I will need to charge it to get it back > to full > strength? I would love to charge it a couple of hours tonight and > then try > it. But if I have to let it sit overnight again, I will. > > Don+

<><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><> Don+, I have a Battery Tender Jr. for most of my motorcycle type/size batteries. It's not a fast charger so starting with a fully discharged battery will take quite a while using it. Here's why. I think the KLR battery is a 14 amp hour rated battery. So if it's fully discharged it needs 14 amp hours worth of charge to be fully charged. A Battery Tender Jr. is rated I think at 1/2 amp hour. Maybe it's 1 amp hour but let's go with 1/2 for now. To get 14 amp hours out of a 1/2 amp hour charger will take 28 hours. It's pretty easy math once you figure out what you're working with. If the Battery Tender Jr. is rated at 1 amp it'll take 14 hours. Neither will be considered fast. But at the same time neither will hurt your battery. Now some folks will mention they have a small battery charger rated at 4 amps. Now why not use that you may wonder? Well, on a larger battery like used in a car or truck it would probably be fine for a while. But a motorcycle type battery is pretty small. The chemical reaction of the charging creates heat. Heat in small doses is ok but if the battery gets too hot it can cause internal damage to the battery. You can touch the side of the battery while it's charging to check for heat. Hot to the touch means stop charging for a bit and let the battery cool off. The Battery Tender or Smart Chargers tend to charge in small enough rates that heat isn't a concern. They also have circuits that sense when a battery has reached full charge and then cut the charging rate to a maintenance rate and only charge the battery when it needs it. That's why you sometimes hear of folks that hook up a Battery Tender for the winter and leave it hooked up for months on end without problems. I'd suggest to you the most you should consider charging your KLR battery is at 1 amp per hour. And you should monitor the voltage to make sure you remove the charger when the battery is at full charge. The battery charger should come with instructions about how to do that. If I had a battery that just had to be charged overnight so it was fully charged in the morning I'd get up during the night to monitor how it was doing. After you get done charging a battery you may notice if you put a voltmeter on it the reading is over 13 volts or at least in the high 12 volt range. To get a truer reading let the battery sit for a few hours to remove what's often called a surface charge. One other thing you can do is to put a small load on the battery. Turning on the headlight for 5 minutes will work well. Actually time it since in this case time seems to go a lot slower than you think. After the load is removed let the battery set for a few minutes and then check it for a voltage reading. Fully charged will be 12.6 volts or better. For easy hook up of a battery charger I've added an accessory socket to my electrical system. It's similar to a cigarette lighter socket but mine is a DIN socket like used on BMW motorcycles. I want all my motorcycles using the same sockets so I don't have to mess with remembering what fits where. I have one socket wired hot all the time for battery charging and GPS usage. Some folks put an SAE type connector on the bike and it'll work the same way. I'd suggest making sure you have it fused with an appropriate size fuse. For the 12 gauge wire on a KLR I'd probably not go over a 10 amp fuse and I think I use a 7.5 amp fuse in my system. I figure if I'm putting more than 7.5 amps on the system it's time to stop and that'll stop me when the fuse blows. I like wiring the accessory socket into the electrical system at the battery side of the starter solenoid. That keeps the connectors out of the way of the battery for easier battery maintenance. A few last points. A discharged battery will freeze so keeping it charged is a good idea. When a battery freezes the plates inside can be damaged. So excessive heat will damage them and so will allowing a discharged battery to freeze. Trying to charge or jump a frozen battery can cause the battery to explode causing injury or death and damage to equipment. Charging a battery that is low on fluid is a waste of time. Only add distilled water to a battery and never overfill. I use a medicine syringe which moves about 60ccs of fluid at a time. You can get them at some farm stores that sell vet supplies. A drug store will have baby medicine syringes which move about 10ccs. They work well but take more time. It's important to not overfill the cells of the battery. Again, distilled water only. Hope this is helpful. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT

Thanks Jeff. Very helpful (as usual), but now my head is spinning! ) Don+ -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Saline [mailto:salinej1@...] Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 9:31 AM To: dpendergraft@... Cc: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Dangit, I have to buy a battery charger! On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 08:16:01 -0600 "Don Pendergraft" writes:

> I haven't run the bike in weeks, and have had to tax the battery quite > a bit to get it started after every re-do of the valve cover (6 > attempts thusfar! > - long story, not relevant to this thread), I just didn't have the > juice to get it started this morning. I was really hoping that I could > start her up and the problem would be fixed and my battery would be > fully charged after my 1 hour commute. It was 28 degrees and it hasn't > run in about a month. I just couldn't start it before running my > battery the rest of the way down. > That stinks. I had zero intention of buying a battery tender or > charger or whatever. Why should I? If you ride every day, you don't > need it. > Well, I > need it now. Now I have to go buy one during lunch. I've never used > one. I know you need to remove the left side panel. How do the fellas > that attach a trickle charger to it almost daily do it? I can't > believe that go to such hassle regularly. Any tips or advice about > which one I should buy? > Granted, > I'm limited by what Heartland Honda http://www.heartlandhonda.com/> > in Springdale Arkansas happens to have in stock, but I'll still take > suggestions! > > Also, how long do you think I will need to charge it to get it back to > full strength? I would love to charge it a couple of hours tonight and > then try it. But if I have to let it sit overnight again, I will. > > Don+

<><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><> Don+, I have a Battery Tender Jr. for most of my motorcycle type/size batteries. It's not a fast charger so starting with a fully discharged battery will take quite a while using it. Here's why. I think the KLR battery is a 14 amp hour rated battery. So if it's fully discharged it needs 14 amp hours worth of charge to be fully charged. A Battery Tender Jr. is rated I think at 1/2 amp hour. Maybe it's 1 amp hour but let's go with 1/2 for now. To get 14 amp hours out of a 1/2 amp hour charger will take 28 hours. It's pretty easy math once you figure out what you're working with. If the Battery Tender Jr. is rated at 1 amp it'll take 14 hours. Neither will be considered fast. But at the same time neither will hurt your battery. Now some folks will mention they have a small battery charger rated at 4 amps. Now why not use that you may wonder? Well, on a larger battery like used in a car or truck it would probably be fine for a while. But a motorcycle type battery is pretty small. The chemical reaction of the charging creates heat. Heat in small doses is ok but if the battery gets too hot it can cause internal damage to the battery. You can touch the side of the battery while it's charging to check for heat. Hot to the touch means stop charging for a bit and let the battery cool off. The Battery Tender or Smart Chargers tend to charge in small enough rates that heat isn't a concern. They also have circuits that sense when a battery has reached full charge and then cut the charging rate to a maintenance rate and only charge the battery when it needs it. That's why you sometimes hear of folks that hook up a Battery Tender for the winter and leave it hooked up for months on end without problems. I'd suggest to you the most you should consider charging your KLR battery is at 1 amp per hour. And you should monitor the voltage to make sure you remove the charger when the battery is at full charge. The battery charger should come with instructions about how to do that. If I had a battery that just had to be charged overnight so it was fully charged in the morning I'd get up during the night to monitor how it was doing. After you get done charging a battery you may notice if you put a voltmeter on it the reading is over 13 volts or at least in the high 12 volt range. To get a truer reading let the battery sit for a few hours to remove what's often called a surface charge. One other thing you can do is to put a small load on the battery. Turning on the headlight for 5 minutes will work well. Actually time it since in this case time seems to go a lot slower than you think. After the load is removed let the battery set for a few minutes and then check it for a voltage reading. Fully charged will be 12.6 volts or better. For easy hook up of a battery charger I've added an accessory socket to my electrical system. It's similar to a cigarette lighter socket but mine is a DIN socket like used on BMW motorcycles. I want all my motorcycles using the same sockets so I don't have to mess with remembering what fits where. I have one socket wired hot all the time for battery charging and GPS usage. Some folks put an SAE type connector on the bike and it'll work the same way. I'd suggest making sure you have it fused with an appropriate size fuse. For the 12 gauge wire on a KLR I'd probably not go over a 10 amp fuse and I think I use a 7.5 amp fuse in my system. I figure if I'm putting more than 7.5 amps on the system it's time to stop and that'll stop me when the fuse blows. I like wiring the accessory socket into the electrical system at the battery side of the starter solenoid. That keeps the connectors out of the way of the battery for easier battery maintenance. A few last points. A discharged battery will freeze so keeping it charged is a good idea. When a battery freezes the plates inside can be damaged. So excessive heat will damage them and so will allowing a discharged battery to freeze. Trying to charge or jump a frozen battery can cause the battery to explode causing injury or death and damage to equipment. Charging a battery that is low on fluid is a waste of time. Only add distilled water to a battery and never overfill. I use a medicine syringe which moves about 60ccs of fluid at a time. You can get them at some farm stores that sell vet supplies. A drug store will have baby medicine syringes which move about 10ccs. They work well but take more time. It's important to not overfill the cells of the battery. Again, distilled water only. Hope this is helpful. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Michael Nelson wrote:

> > On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 08:43:42AM -0600, Don Pendergraft wrote: > > > Thanks Ed! I already have the SM. But I will be buying the charger. I > > appreciate your help! > > Battery tenders are SLOW, only about a 1 amp charging rate. That's

a good

> thing for small batteries, actually, but don't expect it to make

much of a

> difference on a fully discharged battery in a couple hours. > > The stock lead/acid battery Kawasaki installs is crap. You should

go right

> away and get an AGM (Absorbed Glass Matt) type battery. They require no > maintenance and if you had one in there right now your engine would have > started. They also don't overflow acid or require the frequent

topping up

> with distilled water that the stock battery requires. > > There really is no downside to an AGM battery for your KLR. > > Michael > > -- > "It's not what I don't understand about religion that bothers me,

it's what

> I do understand." -- Mark Twain > > San Francisco, CA >

I use the Yuasa SmartShot 900 Automatic, 12V 900mA(0.9Amps) battery charger for both motorcycle and automotive batteries. Slower is better? The only customer waiting is me. No problem. ED

Hey Don, Give Fred at Arrowhead a call..............he'll have the correct battery and the right charger. Most likely, he'll have the battery and charger to you long before the dealer in AR will have it in his shop. You can't, or shouldn't, throw a big ass car battery charger on your battery unless it has a 2 amp or lower charging rate. Too high a charging rate will overheat the battery, boil the acid out of it and warp the internal plates into uselessness. The little wall plug 12V trickle chargers will do the same thing if you leave them on too long, too!!! I've got two BateryTenders for my stable and running each of the bikes through a charge once a month in the winter seems to keep my batteries in good shape. Battery maintenance ain't rocket science, what the hell, KLR maintenance ain't rocket science either. Not quite Neanderthal like some of the old Brit singles, but the KLR is a very simple bike. Buddy

> [Original Message] > From: Don Pendergraft > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> > Date: 11/29/2007 6:16:11 AM > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Dangit, I have to buy a battery charger! > > I haven't run the bike in weeks, and have had to tax the battery quite a

bit

> to get it started after every re-do of the valve cover (6 attempts

thusfar!

> - long story, not relevant to this thread), I just didn't have the juice

to

> get it started this morning. I was really hoping that I could start her up > and the problem would be fixed and my battery would be fully charged after > my 1 hour commute. It was 28 degrees and it hasn't run in about a month. I > just couldn't start it before running my battery the rest of the way down. > That stinks. I had zero intention of buying a battery tender or charger or > whatever. Why should I? If you ride every day, you don't need it. Well, I > need it now. Now I have to go buy one during lunch. I've never used one. I > know you need to remove the left side panel. How do the fellas that

attach a

> trickle charger to it almost daily do it? I can't believe that go to such > hassle regularly. Any tips or advice about which one I should buy?

Granted,

> I'm limited by what Heartland Honda http://www.heartlandhonda.com/> in > Springdale Arkansas happens to have in stock, but I'll still take > suggestions! > > Also, how long do you think I will need to charge it to get it back to

full

> strength? I would love to charge it a couple of hours tonight and then try > it. But if I have to let it sit overnight again, I will. > > Don+ > > http://www.heartlandhonda.com/> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Thanks Harry. In the interest of instant gratification however, I bought the Yuasa at a local dealer and a 1.5amp/hr charger at Wal-Martz for $18.44. Bonus! It has an adaptor that you wire to your battery so you don't have to take off side panels and seat to charge. Thanks to EM for pointing me to WM for the charger. Just for grins I checked online for the Schumacher Automatic Battery Charger model 1562A, and I couldn't find it cheaper anywhere. I hope to fire up the bike tonight! Don+ -----Original Message----- From: Harry Seifert [mailto:bseifert71@...] Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 2:17 PM To: Don Pendergraft; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Dangit, I have to buy a battery charger! Hey Don, Give Fred at Arrowhead a call..............he'll have the correct battery and the right charger. Most likely, he'll have the battery and charger to you long before the dealer in AR will have it in his shop. You can't, or shouldn't, throw a big ass car battery charger on your battery unless it has a 2 amp or lower charging rate. Too high a charging rate will overheat the battery, boil the acid out of it and warp the internal plates into uselessness. The little wall plug 12V trickle chargers will do the same thing if you leave them on too long, too!!! I've got two BateryTenders for my stable and running each of the bikes through a charge once a month in the winter seems to keep my batteries in good shape. Battery maintenance ain't rocket science, what the hell, KLR maintenance ain't rocket science either. Not quite Neanderthal like some of the old Brit singles, but the KLR is a very simple bike. Buddy

> [Original Message] > From: Don Pendergraft > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> > Date: 11/29/2007 6:16:11 AM > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Dangit, I have to buy a battery charger! > > I haven't run the bike in weeks, and have had to tax the battery quite > a

bit

> to get it started after every re-do of the valve cover (6 attempts

thusfar!

> - long story, not relevant to this thread), I just didn't have the > juice

to

> get it started this morning. I was really hoping that I could start > her up and the problem would be fixed and my battery would be fully > charged after my 1 hour commute. It was 28 degrees and it hasn't run > in about a month. I just couldn't start it before running my battery the

rest of the way down.

> That stinks. I had zero intention of buying a battery tender or > charger or whatever. Why should I? If you ride every day, you don't > need it. Well, I need it now. Now I have to go buy one during lunch. > I've never used one. I know you need to remove the left side panel. > How do the fellas that

attach a

> trickle charger to it almost daily do it? I can't believe that go to > such hassle regularly. Any tips or advice about which one I should buy?

Granted,

> I'm limited by what Heartland Honda http://www.heartlandhonda.com/> > in Springdale Arkansas happens to have in stock, but I'll still take > suggestions! > > Also, how long do you think I will need to charge it to get it back to

full

> strength? I would love to charge it a couple of hours tonight and then > try it. But if I have to let it sit overnight again, I will. > > Don+ > > http://www.heartlandhonda.com/> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >