Wilsons Sandbox

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:30 am**

Good morning all. I used to put a wood block between the front tire before ratcheting-down. But after several times I stopped--not sure why either. But I've driven thousands of miles this way and it has never caused any damage for me. However, as suggested, you can use a scrap 4x4 (wood) or buy the device from the device from a shop if you like. I think we need to have a special show on Discovery Channel dedicated to busting or confirming our KLR mysths. Now, I am not 100% sure either way on this. But the fact is once you start compressing the forks, the same pressure will apply to the seals regardless of block/or not assuming equal depths and perhaps negligible differences at near-equal depths. E.g. clamping the forks to 50% capacity exerts the same pressure at the seals REGARDLESS blocked or not. The only possible argument is for a block that limits compression to a certain depth (which is what "blockers" are recommending) which is less than where you're comfortable clamping forks down without the block ("non- blockers" like me clamping down hard and heavy). We're not talking about gas charged shocks here. We're talking about fluid dynamics and forks designed to withstand these hydraulic pressures. Let's stop and look at look what we do in the field. 75mph loaded with gear humming across the desert and hit a whopper of a dip that instantaneously compresses those forks near bottom. The hydraulic pressure is tremendous. Which is what these fork tubes and seals are designed to do and endure. Now some will argue this is max moment load vs. steady state, but I'll suggest this F_max is much more (a high multiplier!) than you will ever sustain ratcheting in your truck bed while under normal driving conditions (vs. going over a cliff...you know who you are!). Where you could have problems is in a situation of extreme temp or altitude change (pressure change) over time where the compressed fork temp and pressure rise while the fork is strapped in a compressed steady state. Where would the added pressure go if it couldn't be further compressed and contained in the fork chamber? pssssssssssssssssssss! Again, unlikely but possible especially if held compressed for extreme periods of time. Now, I've changed fork seals in the KLR and these buggers are pretty robust. I remember sending one fork 150 psi to remove a stubborn seal, and it didn't budge and no oil skirted the seal. I finally "massaged" it with an awl while applying a reasonable 60 psi. The other popped at 60 psi within 3 seconds. Remember there is a retaining ring that holds this seal from blowing-out. That ring is extremely important to the seal's integrity. But that seal itself is far beyond some rubber o-ring or cheap plastic some might envision. Frankly, it's rather burly like it needs to be. A seal blow-out could seriously injure or even kill someone. Best regards - Brian --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Don Pendergraft" wrote:

> > I have read this as well. I have also read that you can cut a short

piece of

> PVC and vertically wedge it between your tire and fender and then

have the

> freedom to crank away on those straps! I will have to try it the

next time I

> have to load my bike in a pickup. > > Don+ > > _____ > > From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On

> Behalf Of Dooden > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 6:22 AM > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Got me a NEW used Truck > > > > > Advise DO NOT RATCHET the front end too tight, the forks will > compress and if left that way chances are you will be replacing

fork

> seals, there is aproduct made to fit between the front tire and the > fender mounting area that keeps the froks from compressing. (cut a > chunk of 2x4 if you want) > > > > Recent Activity > > * > > 15 > New >

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZTZpbmc 1BF9TA

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Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:01 pm**

Hi Brian....my preferred way to haul my KDX was to do the pvc pipe between the tire and the underside of the fender but the pipe length I used was slightly longer then the distance between the tire and the fender so you had to unload the front suspension slightly before it would fit. This to me had two benefits, the first being once the pipe was installed you ddn't have to try to hold it in place and tie the bike down at the same time. The second being that when you start compressing the front suspension you start unloading the rear so if not tied with four straps, I usually only use two, the rear will tend to move around. Two straps were perfectly acceptable for the short trips I made. I did on quite often haul the bike "unblocked" and never had a seal fail but I have, not everytime, vented the forks by depressing the air valve on the top of each fork once the bike was tied down. The only stress is on the fork springs then and I for the short trips I took I never saw any difference in static sag in the front suspension but I probably would only check this in the winter after I set the bike up originally......have a great evening....Greg traderpro2003 wrote: Good morning all. I used to put a wood block between the front tire before ratcheting-down. But after several times I stopped--not sure why either. But I've driven thousands of miles this way and it has never caused any damage for me. However, as suggested, you can use a scrap 4x4 (wood) or buy the device from the device from a shop if you like. I think we need to have a special show on Discovery Channel dedicated to busting or confirming our KLR mysths. Now, I am not 100% sure either way on this. But the fact is once you start compressing the forks, the same pressure will apply to the seals regardless of block/or not assuming equal depths and perhaps negligible differences at near-equal depths. E.g. clamping the forks to 50% capacity exerts the same pressure at the seals REGARDLESS blocked or not. The only possible argument is for a block that limits compression to a certain depth (which is what "blockers" are recommending) which is less than where you're comfortable clamping forks down without the block ("non- blockers" like me clamping down hard and heavy). We're not talking about gas charged shocks here. We're talking about fluid dynamics and forks designed to withstand these hydraulic pressures. Let's stop and look at look what we do in the field. 75mph loaded with gear humming across the desert and hit a whopper of a dip that instantaneously compresses those forks near bottom. The hydraulic pressure is tremendous. Which is what these fork tubes and seals are designed to do and endure. Now some will argue this is max moment load vs. steady state, but I'll suggest this F_max is much more (a high multiplier!) than you will ever sustain ratcheting in your truck bed while under normal driving conditions (vs. going over a cliff...you know who you are!). Where you could have problems is in a situation of extreme temp or altitude change (pressure change) over time where the compressed fork temp and pressure rise while the fork is strapped in a compressed steady state. Where would the added pressure go if it couldn't be further compressed and contained in the fork chamber? pssssssssssssssssssss! Again, unlikely but possible especially if held compressed for extreme periods of time. Now, I've changed fork seals in the KLR and these buggers are pretty robust. I remember sending one fork 150 psi to remove a stubborn seal, and it didn't budge and no oil skirted the seal. I finally "massaged" it with an awl while applying a reasonable 60 psi. The other popped at 60 psi within 3 seconds. Remember there is a retaining ring that holds this seal from blowing-out. That ring is extremely important to the seal's integrity. But that seal itself is far beyond some rubber o-ring or cheap plastic some might envision. Frankly, it's rather burly like it needs to be. A seal blow-out could seriously injure or even kill someone. Best regards - Brian --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Don Pendergraft" wrote:

> > I have read this as well. I have also read that you can cut a short

piece of

> PVC and vertically wedge it between your tire and fender and then

have the

> freedom to crank away on those straps! I will have to try it the

next time I

> have to load my bike in a pickup. > > Don+ > > _____ > > From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On

> Behalf Of Dooden > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 6:22 AM > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Got me a NEW used Truck > > > > > Advise DO NOT RATCHET the front end too tight, the forks will > compress and if left that way chances are you will be replacing

fork

> seals, there is aproduct made to fit between the front tire and the > fender mounting area that keeps the froks from compressing. (cut a > chunk of 2x4 if you want) > > > > Recent Activity > > * > > 15 > New >

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZTZpbmc 1BF9TA

>

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> nMEc3RpbWUDMTE5NjMzODkyOQ--> Members > * > > 6 > New >

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> Ec3RpbWUDMTE5NjMzODkyOQ--> Photos > > Visit >

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>

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>

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Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:19 pm**

Anyone using these and can share their review? $279/pair http://www.tpi4x4.com/KLR650/Touring.htm Firstly, I'm not a big fan of rigid boxes. I actually use special soft (but bombproof) panniers designed for expedition mountain biking. However this upcoming trip to South America I want the added security even though I rarely leave my bike unattended and certainly de- farklized as best I can. I've been in Chile and Argentina enough to know the thieves are fast and cunning with a quick knife and it's usually for stupid things that are mainly convenience for us...not show stoppers like THE ENTIRE BIKE! Anyway, I've fallen enough to appreciate the soft luggage and when I ride 2-up my fearless girlfriend appreciates them as well. Great co-pilot but sometimes a leg just can't get out fast enough. Secondly, why not the ammo cans? I researched it. I like the steel design b/c it's robust and easier to weld/have welded in the field. However, these are a touch smaller (probably find bigger ones?) at 7.5"W x 14H x 17.25 L. Size mattering (again), I'd also have to do the fab to them weld/fit add top cleats, sand blast/prep, and paint etc. So I wouldn't save much considering the cans start at $55/pair. Lastly, what about other vendors? Happy Trails has the attractive, massive Tetons at 10.5x15x18 which are very attractive to me. But reading the description...I'm a bit confused..."The box opening will be 1 3/4"-2" smaller because of design elements." Does this apply to the Teton? A rectangle is a rectangle short of the canyon cut. Hmmmm. Using these supplied dimensions, the two boxes yield approx 93 litres or 11 litres of cargo room (important when riding 2-up not so good in Cali-traffic. But the price is steeper at $210/ea. HT also offers powder coat finishes black/gray (+$90) and custom hinges short/long sides (I prefer lift-offs myself). The boxes look very professional in finished form. Whereas TPI doesn't offer any customizing or finishes and ammo cans...well, they do have character sans bondo. KLR650.com looks like it has the same boxes as TPI but $292/pair--no options available. Jesse Luggage is by far the luxury edition, but at $1,100 it's too high for most cost-conscious (and just plain cheap!) KLR riders and hence the "email for availability" message for KLR boxes. It says these are 8" boxes and total 96 litres. I couldn't find exact dimensions but these might be slightly bigger than the HT Tetons. After close consideration, I ordered the TPIs and will review them in the garage and field...at my expense, of course. Ultimately, I'm going to have my local Rhino-co spray them or powder coat in Denver. I might see what else I can do to monsterize them such as beefing up the mounts, if necessary. Ultimately, I will return to my soft luggage for most trips. These have been proven in combat and are my favorite. Tons of pockets "crash- friendlier", foldable, etc. plus I can use them on a mountain bike rack in seconds. BTW I've had these for 5 years and they've been through hell...no repairs short of beefing up a framesheet for strength and multi-purpose mounting. Cheers all - Brian

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:19 pm**

I've hauled a lot of bikes over the years--never blocked the front wheel and never blew a seal. Doesn't hurt to be cautious, though. The place I do use a block is in front of one bike when hauling two. That way the handlebars don't foul each other. Used to ride the bikes up the ramp. Don't do that anymore, but it's sure tempting sometimes. __Arden

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Greg May wrote: > > Hi Brian....my preferred way to haul my KDX was to do the pvc pipe between the tire and the underside of the fender but the pipe length I used was slightly longer then the distance between the tire and the fender so you had to unload the front suspension slightly before it would fit. This to me had two benefits, the first being once the pipe was installed you ddn't have to try to hold it in place and tie the bike down at the same time. The second being that when you start compressing the front suspension you start unloading the rear so if not tied with four straps, I usually only use two, the rear will tend to move around. Two straps were perfectly acceptable for the short trips I made. > I did on quite often haul the bike "unblocked" and never had a seal fail but I have, not everytime, vented the forks by depressing the air valve on the top of each fork once the bike was tied down. The only stress is on the fork springs then and I for the short trips I took I never saw any difference in static sag in the front suspension but I probably would only check this in the winter after I set the bike up originally......have a great evening....Greg > > traderpro2003 wrote: > Good morning all. I used to put a wood block between the front tire > before ratcheting-down. But after several times I stopped--not sure > why either. But I've driven thousands of miles this way and it has > never caused any damage for me. However, as suggested, you can use a > scrap 4x4 (wood) or buy the device from the device from a shop if you > like. > > I think we need to have a special show on Discovery Channel dedicated > to busting or confirming our KLR mysths. Now, I am not 100% sure > either way on this. But the fact is once you start compressing the > forks, the same pressure will apply to the seals regardless of > block/or not assuming equal depths and perhaps negligible differences > at near-equal depths. E.g. clamping the forks to 50% capacity exerts > the same pressure at the seals REGARDLESS blocked or not. The only > possible argument is for a block that limits compression to a certain > depth (which is what "blockers" are recommending) which is less than > where you're comfortable clamping forks down without the block ("non- > blockers" like me clamping down hard and heavy). We're not talking > about gas charged shocks here. We're talking about fluid dynamics > and forks designed to withstand these hydraulic pressures. Let's > stop and look at look what we do in the field. 75mph loaded with > gear humming across the desert and hit a whopper of a dip that > instantaneously compresses those forks near bottom. The hydraulic > pressure is tremendous. Which is what these fork tubes and seals are > designed to do and endure. Now some will argue this is max moment > load vs. steady state, but I'll suggest this F_max is much more (a > high multiplier!) than you will ever sustain ratcheting in your truck > bed while under normal driving conditions (vs. going over a > cliff...you know who you are!). > > Where you could have problems is in a situation of extreme temp or > altitude change (pressure change) over time where the compressed fork > temp and pressure rise while the fork is strapped in a compressed > steady state. Where would the added pressure go if it couldn't be > further compressed and contained in the fork chamber? > pssssssssssssssssssss! Again, unlikely but possible especially if > held compressed for extreme periods of time. > > Now, I've changed fork seals in the KLR and these buggers are pretty > robust. I remember sending one fork 150 psi to remove a stubborn > seal, and it didn't budge and no oil skirted the seal. I > finally "massaged" it with an awl while applying a reasonable 60 > psi. The other popped at 60 psi within 3 seconds. Remember there is > a retaining ring that holds this seal from blowing-out. That ring is > extremely important to the seal's integrity. But that seal itself is > far beyond some rubber o-ring or cheap plastic some might envision. > Frankly, it's rather burly like it needs to be. A seal blow-out > could seriously injure or even kill someone. > > Best regards - Brian > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Don Pendergraft" > wrote: > > > > I have read this as well. I have also read that you can cut a short > piece of > > PVC and vertically wedge it between your tire and fender and then > have the > > freedom to crank away on those straps! I will have to try it the > next time I > > have to load my bike in a pickup. > > > > Don+ > > > > _____ > > > > From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Dooden > > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 6:22 AM > > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Got me a NEW used Truck > > > > > > > > > > Advise DO NOT RATCHET the front end too tight, the forks will > > compress and if left that way chances are you will be replacing > fork > > seals, there is aproduct made to fit between the front tire and the > > fender mounting area that keeps the froks from compressing. (cut a > > chunk of 2x4 if you want) > > > > > > > > Recent Activity > > > > * > > > > 15 > > New > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZTZpbmc > 1BF9TA > > > zk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQ4ODM4NQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxMjYyNjIEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGs > Ddm1ic > > nMEc3RpbWUDMTE5NjMzODkyOQ--> Members > > * > > > > 6 > > New > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbzFqbmg5B > F9TAzk > > > 3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQ4ODM4NQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxMjYyNjIEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDd > nBob3Q > > Ec3RpbWUDMTE5NjMzODkyOQ--> Photos > > > > Visit > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650;_ylc=X3oDMTJkMWNpcWhiBF9TAzk > 3MzU5N > > > zE0BGdycElkAzQ4ODM4NQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxMjYyNjIEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocAR > zdGltZ > > QMxMTk2MzM4OTI5> Your Group > > Y! Sports for TV > > > > Access > > > http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12ji8n17m/M=493064.10729671.11699924.9977 > 693/D= > > > groups/S=1705126262:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1196346129/A=4767085/R=0/SIG=127pn0 > 1k0/*h > > > ttp://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49021/*http://digitalhome.yahoo.com/sports> > it for > > free > > > > Get Fantasy Sports > > > > stats on your TV. > > > > Yahoo! News > > > > Fashion > > > http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12jfmcr9j/M=493064.10729659.12153716.8674 > 578/D= > > > groups/S=1705126262:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1196346129/A=3848621/R=0/SIG=12u6o6 > g3h/*h > > > ttp://news.yahoo.com/i/1597;_ylt=A9FJqa5Gxa5E2jgAYQKVEhkF;_ylu=X3oDMTA > 2MnU4c > > zRtBHNlYwNzbg--> News > > > > What's the word on > > > > fashion and style? > > > > HDTV Support > > > > The > > > http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12joenaev/M=493064.10972170.11554072.8674 > 578/D= > > > groups/S=1705126262:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1196346129/A=4706132/R=0/SIG=11f8fj > 6tf/*h > > ttp://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/samsunghd/> official Samsung > > > > Y! Group for HDTVs > > > > and devices. > > > > . > > > > http://geo.yahoo.com/serv? > s=97359714/grpId=488385/grpspId=1705126262/msgId= > > 180151/stime=1196338929/nc1=4767085/nc2=3848621/nc3=4706132> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:29 pm**

The nice thing about blocking the front end is that it really allows the bike to be snugged up on the trailer. My bike would wobble badly without the block, sometimes looking like it would topple off the trailer. With the block, no swayiing, no wobbles. Highly recommended. Arden Kysely wrote: I've hauled a lot of bikes over the years--never blocked the front wheel and never blew a seal. Doesn't hurt to be cautious, though. The place I do use a block is in front of one bike when hauling two. That way the handlebars don't foul each other. Used to ride the bikes up the ramp. Don't do that anymore, but it's sure tempting sometimes. __Arden

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Greg May wrote: > > Hi Brian....my preferred way to haul my KDX was to do the pvc pipe between the tire and the underside of the fender but the pipe length I used was slightly longer then the distance between the tire and the fender so you had to unload the front suspension slightly before it would fit. This to me had two benefits, the first being once the pipe was installed you ddn't have to try to hold it in place and tie the bike down at the same time. The second being that when you start compressing the front suspension you start unloading the rear so if not tied with four straps, I usually only use two, the rear will tend to move around. Two straps were perfectly acceptable for the short trips I made. > I did on quite often haul the bike "unblocked" and never had a seal fail but I have, not everytime, vented the forks by depressing the air valve on the top of each fork once the bike was tied down. The only stress is on the fork springs then and I for the short trips I took I never saw any difference in static sag in the front suspension but I probably would only check this in the winter after I set the bike up originally......have a great evening....Greg > > traderpro2003 wrote: > Good morning all. I used to put a wood block between the front tire > before ratcheting-down. But after several times I stopped--not sure > why either. But I've driven thousands of miles this way and it has > never caused any damage for me. However, as suggested, you can use a > scrap 4x4 (wood) or buy the device from the device from a shop if you > like. > > I think we need to have a special show on Discovery Channel dedicated > to busting or confirming our KLR mysths. Now, I am not 100% sure > either way on this. But the fact is once you start compressing the > forks, the same pressure will apply to the seals regardless of > block/or not assuming equal depths and perhaps negligible differences > at near-equal depths. E.g. clamping the forks to 50% capacity exerts > the same pressure at the seals REGARDLESS blocked or not. The only > possible argument is for a block that limits compression to a certain > depth (which is what "blockers" are recommending) which is less than > where you're comfortable clamping forks down without the block ("non- > blockers" like me clamping down hard and heavy). We're not talking > about gas charged shocks here. We're talking about fluid dynamics > and forks designed to withstand these hydraulic pressures. Let's > stop and look at look what we do in the field. 75mph loaded with > gear humming across the desert and hit a whopper of a dip that > instantaneously compresses those forks near bottom. The hydraulic > pressure is tremendous. Which is what these fork tubes and seals are > designed to do and endure. Now some will argue this is max moment > load vs. steady state, but I'll suggest this F_max is much more (a > high multiplier!) than you will ever sustain ratcheting in your truck > bed while under normal driving conditions (vs. going over a > cliff...you know who you are!). > > Where you could have problems is in a situation of extreme temp or > altitude change (pressure change) over time where the compressed fork > temp and pressure rise while the fork is strapped in a compressed > steady state. Where would the added pressure go if it couldn't be > further compressed and contained in the fork chamber? > pssssssssssssssssssss! Again, unlikely but possible especially if > held compressed for extreme periods of time. > > Now, I've changed fork seals in the KLR and these buggers are pretty > robust. I remember sending one fork 150 psi to remove a stubborn > seal, and it didn't budge and no oil skirted the seal. I > finally "massaged" it with an awl while applying a reasonable 60 > psi. The other popped at 60 psi within 3 seconds. Remember there is > a retaining ring that holds this seal from blowing-out. That ring is > extremely important to the seal's integrity. But that seal itself is > far beyond some rubber o-ring or cheap plastic some might envision. > Frankly, it's rather burly like it needs to be. A seal blow-out > could seriously injure or even kill someone. > > Best regards - Brian > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Don Pendergraft" > wrote: > > > > I have read this as well. I have also read that you can cut a short > piece of > > PVC and vertically wedge it between your tire and fender and then > have the > > freedom to crank away on those straps! I will have to try it the > next time I > > have to load my bike in a pickup. > > > > Don+ > > > > _____ > > > > From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Dooden > > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 6:22 AM > > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Got me a NEW used Truck > > > > > > > > > > Advise DO NOT RATCHET the front end too tight, the forks will > > compress and if left that way chances are you will be replacing > fork > > seals, there is aproduct made to fit between the front tire and the > > fender mounting area that keeps the froks from compressing. (cut a > > chunk of 2x4 if you want) > > > > > > > > Recent Activity > > > > * > > > > 15 > > New > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZTZpbmc > 1BF9TA > > > zk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQ4ODM4NQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxMjYyNjIEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGs > Ddm1ic > > nMEc3RpbWUDMTE5NjMzODkyOQ--> Members > > * > > > > 6 > > New > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbzFqbmg5B > F9TAzk > > > 3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQ4ODM4NQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxMjYyNjIEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDd > nBob3Q > > Ec3RpbWUDMTE5NjMzODkyOQ--> Photos > > > > Visit > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650;_ylc=X3oDMTJkMWNpcWhiBF9TAzk > 3MzU5N > > > zE0BGdycElkAzQ4ODM4NQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxMjYyNjIEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocAR > zdGltZ > > QMxMTk2MzM4OTI5> Your Group > > Y! Sports for TV > > > > Access > > > http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12ji8n17m/M=493064.10729671.11699924.9977 > 693/D= > > > groups/S=1705126262:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1196346129/A=4767085/R=0/SIG=127pn0 > 1k0/*h > > > ttp://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49021/*http://digitalhome.yahoo.com/sports> > it for > > free > > > > Get Fantasy Sports > > > > stats on your TV. > > > > Yahoo! News > > > > Fashion > > > http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12jfmcr9j/M=493064.10729659.12153716.8674 > 578/D= > > > groups/S=1705126262:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1196346129/A=3848621/R=0/SIG=12u6o6 > g3h/*h > > > ttp://news.yahoo.com/i/1597;_ylt=A9FJqa5Gxa5E2jgAYQKVEhkF;_ylu=X3oDMTA > 2MnU4c > > zRtBHNlYwNzbg--> News > > > > What's the word on > > > > fashion and style? > > > > HDTV Support > > > > The > > > http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12joenaev/M=493064.10972170.11554072.8674 > 578/D= > > > groups/S=1705126262:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1196346129/A=4706132/R=0/SIG=11f8fj > 6tf/*h > > ttp://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/samsunghd/> official Samsung > > > > Y! Group for HDTVs > > > > and devices. > > > > . > > > > http://geo.yahoo.com/serv? > s=97359714/grpId=488385/grpspId=1705126262/msgId= > > 180151/stime=1196338929/nc1=4767085/nc2=3848621/nc3=4706132> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be smarter than spam. 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Wilsons Sandbox

tpi aluminum pannier/boxes 9"w x 14.5"h x 18"l (apx 39 litres each)

to block or not to block?

to block or not to block?

tpi aluminum pannier/boxes 9"w x 14.5"h x 18"l (apx 39 litres each)

to block or not to block?

to block or not to block?