Wilsons Sandbox

Posted: **Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:19 pm**

Hello: Here is an article that I found regarding the 'green' aspect of our two wheels, one of the main reasons I have my Jr. Well, if this is true, then I am shot. For anyone else that has theirs for 'treehugger' reasons, this is depressing. http://www.grist.org/advice/ask/2003/05/28/umbra-motorcycles/index.html Guess I'll be gettig rid of mine sometime, in case anyone is interested.

Posted: **Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:33 pm**

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "tilster187" wrote:

> > Hello: Here is an article that I found regarding the 'green'

aspect of

> our two wheels, one of the main reasons I have my Jr. Well, if

this is

> true, then I am shot. For anyone else that has theirs

for 'treehugger'

> reasons, this is depressing. > > > http://www.grist.org/advice/ask/2003/05/28/umbra-

motorcycles/index.html

> > > > Guess I'll be gettig rid of mine sometime, in case anyone is

interested.

>

Hmmm...My BMW came with a cat converter, so I guess it doesn't apply? Yeah, so what that it's in the attic now and a dirty pipe is on there! Besides, I hope to NEVER hug any trees with it anyway! Shane

Posted: **Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:33 pm**

All you have to do is smell the exhaust from a bike and compare it to a car. I kind of assumed everyone knew this. Then add the guys that rejet and put aftermarket exhaust. I assure you they are not cleaning up their exhaust by doing that! The regulations have always been far behind on motorcycles. How about diesel trucks? Been behind any Los Angeles Unified School District busses lately?? You choke on the black smoke from the school buses. I'm not aware of any bikes that are sold with only the claim they are great commuter bikes that get great mileage. Sure, you CAN use a bike for commuting, but as most people recognize, there is nothing cheap about operating a motorcycle. Many bikes approach the cost of a cheap car, and bikes have high maintenance (tires, chains, etc). So bikes are usually sold with the idea of pleasure and sporting use. Kind of like my drag racing truck - it goes through 1 gallon of 110 octane race gas for each 1/4 mile drag strip pass. Wanna guess how much emissions it puts out??? Jeff A20 **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Posted: **Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:44 pm**

I've harped about how eviromentally "unconcious" our bikes are for years... but I still ride mine! The pollution control devices that are on a modern cars are still absent on most motorcycles today. At least my new Versys has FI and a Cat. Not to mention the chunks of rubber we throw away every 2-8k miles... ouch! The average auto (I'm guessing) will easily go 150,000 to 250,000 miles before becoming scrap... have you been to a motorcycle junk yard and checked the odometers of the bikes there? Most are in the neighborhood of 2000 - 15000 miles before they end up as a 400 pound puddle of scrap. But I'll take this "Umbra" fellow with a grain of salt. Anyone who makes blanket statements that "motorcycle are dangerous" because his friend rear-ended a vehicle on the interstate ("rear-ended" another vehicle on the "interstate") can't be dealing with an un-biased full deck. His statement should have read: "Dangerous people hurt themselves on motorcycles". West___ "I feel so dirty" [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Posted: **Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:18 pm**

I have also noticed what I think is a cat muffler on my 2005 ZRX1200R. Bike also has a distinctive cleaner smell when it runs, and the muffler gets pretty hot. I think there are cat's on the exhaust on my 2003 Harley Heritage Softail also. But my 2006 KLR seems to just have a can with holes and screens in it for a muffler. Jeff A20 **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Posted: **Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:14 am**

Are you posting something as inspiring to the weedeater and lawnmover enthusiast groups as well? Don't waste your time with the chainsaw group. They all gave up installing catalytic converters, too. Yeah, I suppose it's time to sell all our cars, trucks and motos and go back to living in caves and sharing more group hugs.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "tilster187" wrote: > > Hello: Here is an article that I found regarding the 'green' aspect of > our two wheels, one of the main reasons I have my Jr. Well, if this is > true, then I am shot. For anyone else that has theirs for 'treehugger' > reasons, this is depressing. > > > http://www.grist.org/advice/ask/2003/05/28/umbra- motorcycles/index.html > > > > Guess I'll be gettig rid of mine sometime, in case anyone is interested. >

Posted: **Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:35 am**

Tilster, You are right, all the necessary information is on the CARB web site, broken down by vehicles, engines and just about every type of testing that can be done in 10+ year studies. Please go to CARB@..., after you dig through the pertinant information on different vehicles, use a macro, and make a spreadsheet on comparisons of the different values you consider important. Each person has ideas about what is Important. I certainly saw nothing in the UMBRA article that was in any way "logical", or could convey in a proper format any information that would guide an informed person. Motorcycles are in the same basic debate as are guns and many other issues, and fit into the category of (it is not the motorcycle, gun, whatever that is dangerous, polluting, etc.), but it is the people who do or don't ride responsibly, do or don't maintain their equipment and keep up with the latest information. We are fortunate as motorcycle owners to have a variety of options, including now and in the future of utilizing all types of propulsion, polluting or not,being safe or not, and being responsible citizens. I have, just as test platforms, built 2 different types of electrical and other low polluting bikes and making them practical. However, it disgusts a great many people that anyone would listen to the garbage spouted in the name of environtalism by someone who has not done their homework and learned the facts, they are very easy to check. Again, please keep riding and ignore the propaganda. Is UMBRA's real name Joe McCarthy? JRH Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 17:19:31 -0800From: tilster187@...: RE: [DSN_KLR650] environmental concernsTo: johnhenely@... for the response. Care to share your 'facts'? The umbra piece seems logical. Saying its wrong without evidence means little; provide better information, if you choose. john henely wrote: Read the answer by "Umbra"? on Grist. This is another example of people spouting off and making up so called "facts". I have been involved with CARB for over 25 years, and her data is not only wrong, but fully falsified. Keep Riding! JRH To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.comFrom: tilster187@...: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 22:19:55 +0000Subject: [DSN_KLR650] environmental concerns Hello: Here is an article that I found regarding the 'green' aspect ofour two wheels, one of the main reasons I have my Jr. Well, if this istrue, then I am shot. For anyone else that has theirs for 'treehugger'reasons, this is depressing.http://www.grist.org/advice/ask/2003/05/28/umbra-motorcycles/index.htmlGuess I'll be gettig rid of mine sometime, in case anyone is interested. Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Posted: **Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:36 am**

The same kind of "the sky is falling" was heard in the early 70's as smog emissions took hold and performance went into the toilet. Now look at cars today. Far better, more powerful, more fuel efficient, and better mileage. Many of today's' sedans would give the fastest of the "muscle car" era cars a run for their money. Perhaps some good can come from a little development in that direction Jeff A20, 1966 Ply Satellite w/440 Magnum **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Posted: **Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:45 am**

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "tilster187" wrote:

> > Hello: Here is an article that I found regarding the 'green' aspect of > our two wheels, one of the main reasons I have my Jr. Well, if this is > true, then I am shot. For anyone else that has theirs for 'treehugger' > reasons, this is depressing. > > > http://www.grist.org/advice/ask/2003/05/28/umbra-

motorcycles/index.html

> > > > Guess I'll be gettig rid of mine sometime, in case anyone is

interested.

>

What a load of twaddle. I would like to point out that motorcycles cause a lot less wear and tear on roads, take a lot less resources to build, and cut the amount of time spent in traffic. So even though mile per mile, your KLR puts out more hydrocarbons than a well-tuned 2007 California spec car, the overall "footprint" of your KLR may not be worse than it. I mean, if you are in traffic for an hour idling your car, when you could have been home in 15 minutes on your KLR, which is really the more polluting option? If a person is so weak-minded as to sell their KLR based solely on reading an opinion piece on an online green propaganda site (written by a woman who has an agenda (to say the least), may I be the first to congratulate them on their well considered decision. Thanks CA Stu PS Nuke the internet now!

Posted: **Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:50 pm**

I'm not in a position to argue the figures in that report; but if you're a glutton for punishment, the original EPA document is here: http://www.epa.gov/EPA-AIR/2004/January/Day-15/a006.htm I'd heard about these changes for awhile, but hadn't really paid attention to them. I've think the worst figures are for air-cooled, carburated, large displacement motorcycles (i.e. Harley Davidson). Having ridden behind them lots of times, I can believe it. My understanding is the direction is towards water-cooled, fuel injected engines to clean up most of the emissions. The HD V-Rod is a step in that direction. It's not clear they'll be requiring cataylic converters except possibly in California. 60 MPG on a Harley? Must be a Sportster 883. Every HD rider I've ever talked to typically speaks in terms of 30-40 MPG, on a 3-4 gallon gas tank. And with what they belch out, I can believe they're the worst offendors. KLR 650 emissions seem pretty moderate in comparison. And much better with 50-60 mpg on a 6 gallon gas tank. However, unlike most KLRista's in this forum, I believe the KLR would greatly benefit from fuel injection. Improves performance, mileage, emsissions and gets rid of the high-altitude asthma. THe only cogent argument against it might be from world wide travelers who ride theu countries with varying quality of gas which can muckup an FI engine. Bob Chicago - '06 (Red)

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, john henely wrote: > > Tilster, > > You are right, all the necessary information is on the CARB web site, broken down by vehicles, engines and just about every type of testing that can be done in 10+ year studies. Please go to CARB@..., after you dig through the pertinant information on different vehicles, use a macro, and make a spreadsheet on comparisons of the different values you consider important. Each person has ideas about what is Important. > I certainly saw nothing in the UMBRA article that was in any way "logical", or could convey in a proper format any information that would guide an informed person. > Motorcycles are in the same basic debate as are guns and many other issues, and fit into the category of (it is not the motorcycle, gun, whatever that is dangerous, polluting, etc.), but it is the people who do or don't ride responsibly, do or don't maintain their equipment and keep up with the latest information. > We are fortunate as motorcycle owners to have a variety of options, including now and in the future of utilizing all types of propulsion, polluting or not,being safe or not, and being responsible citizens. I have, just as test platforms, built 2 different types of electrical and other low polluting bikes and making them practical. > However, it disgusts a great many people that anyone would listen to the garbage spouted in the name of environtalism by someone who has not done their homework and learned the facts, they are very easy to check. > > Again, please keep riding and ignore the propaganda. Is UMBRA's real name Joe McCarthy? > > JRH > > > Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 17:19:31 -0800From: tilster187@...: RE: [DSN_KLR650] environmental concernsTo: johnhenely@... for the response. Care to share your 'facts'? The umbra piece seems logical. Saying its wrong without evidence means little; provide better information, if you choose. john henely wrote: > > > Read the answer by "Umbra"? on Grist. This is another example of people spouting off and making up so called "facts". I have been involved with CARB for over 25 years, and her data is not only wrong, but fully falsified. Keep Riding! JRH > > > To: DSN_KLR650@...: tilster187@...: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 22:19:55 +0000Subject: [DSN_KLR650] environmental concerns > > > Hello: Here is an article that I found regarding the 'green' aspect ofour two wheels, one of the main reasons I have my Jr. Well, if this istrue, then I am shot. For anyone else that has theirs for 'treehugger'reasons, this is depressing.http://www.grist.org/advice/ask/2003/05/28/umbra-motorcycles/index.htmlGuess I'll be gettig rid of mine sometime, in case anyone is interested. > > > > > > > > > Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

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