Wilsons Sandbox

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:03:24 -0500 "Don Pendergraft" writes:

> Is it just me, or are KLR's hard to start when it's below 40 degrees > F? I > fear my battery is going to be run down before I get it started. OK, > a few > details. I have an '08 with about 10K miles on it. It runs great. > Well, it > does burn oil, but I don't think that's related to hard starting in > cold > weather. I haven't checked the valves yet as the SM doesn't call for > it > until 15K miles. Not sure how I'm going to start it when it's 25 > out. Will > pointing a 100W bulb at the engine help? I haven't been > stranded...yet. This > is the ONLY time it is hard to start. The rest of the day, no prob. > All > other mornings when it's warmer, no problem. Ideas? Thanks in > advance. > > Don+

<><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><> Don+, Tell us how you're trying to start your KLR. Choke and throttle positions, etc. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT

Jeff, When I start my KLR in the morning I have the choke full open. I then hit the starter button and wait for to hear it kind of act like it's going to start, then give it a bit of gas. That usually does it. When it's cold, it just cranks and cranks. So I try a bit more gas. I then can even smell the gas, as in "I hope I didn't flood it". But I keep at it. I then turn off the choke and try in case I overdid it on the choke. Then I put the choke back on and try. And so on. Eventually I keep cranking it and it will sputter and then start right up and is fine. I then heave a giant sigh of relief. I'm sorry I can't explain it any better. I leave the house before 6AM and it's dark. Maybe I should illuminate my KLR with a light and shoot a video of me starting it and then post it online. Heh. Maybe I will. Don+ -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Saline [mailto:salinej1@...] Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 1:24 PM To: dpendergraft@... Cc: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Tips to Starting in Cold Weather Needed.... On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:03:24 -0500 "Don Pendergraft" writes:

> Is it just me, or are KLR's hard to start when it's below 40 degrees > F? I fear my battery is going to be run down before I get it started. > OK, a few details. I have an '08 with about 10K miles on it. It runs > great. > Well, it > does burn oil, but I don't think that's related to hard starting in > cold weather. I haven't checked the valves yet as the SM doesn't call > for it until 15K miles. Not sure how I'm going to start it when it's > 25 out. Will pointing a 100W bulb at the engine help? I haven't been > stranded...yet. This is the ONLY time it is hard to start. The rest of > the day, no prob. > All > other mornings when it's warmer, no problem. Ideas? Thanks in advance. > > Don+

<><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><> Don+, Tell us how you're trying to start your KLR. Choke and throttle positions, etc. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT

Hi Don, I realize there are differences between my 04 and your 08 and others could probably speak to what those are but I can say mine with 10-40 Kawasaki brand syn oil in it and the jetting left factory stock fire up as soon as you touch the button with the original battery installed in weather as cold as -10C...and nope I din't go for a ride. My bike spent it's first 3000km with the original owner who supposedly had the 500km service completed including the valves checked, never said if any needed setting but when I checked them at 10000km all needed to be set with the exhausts believe being just above the min clearence. I would suspect that if yours were checked there clearance would be too "closed for comfort" causing at least some of your hard starting. Have a great day...Greg --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Don Pendergraft" wrote:

> > Is it just me, or are KLR's hard to start when it's below 40

degrees F? I

> fear my battery is going to be run down before I get it started.

OK, a few

> details. I have an '08 with about 10K miles on it. It runs great.

Well, it

> does burn oil, but I don't think that's related to hard starting in

cold

> weather. I haven't checked the valves yet as the SM doesn't call

for it

> until 15K miles. Not sure how I'm going to start it when it's 25

out. Will

> pointing a 100W bulb at the engine help? I haven't been

stranded...yet. This

> is the ONLY time it is hard to start. The rest of the day, no prob.

All

> other mornings when it's warmer, no problem. Ideas? Thanks in

advance.

> > Don+ > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 13:40:03 -0500 "Don Pendergraft" writes:

> Jeff, > When I start my KLR in the morning I have the choke full open. I > then hit > the starter button and wait for to hear it kind of act like it's > going to > start, then give it a bit of gas. That usually does it. When it's > cold, it > just cranks and cranks. So I try a bit more gas. I then can even > smell the > gas, as in "I hope I didn't flood it". But I keep at it. I then turn > off the > choke and try in case I overdid it on the choke. Then I put the > choke back > on and try. And so on. Eventually I keep cranking it and it will > sputter and > then start right up and is fine. I then heave a giant sigh of > relief. I'm > sorry I can't explain it any better. I leave the house before 6AM > and it's > dark. Maybe I should illuminate my KLR with a light and shoot a > video of me > starting it and then post it online. Heh. Maybe I will. > > Don+

<><><><><><><> <><><><><><><> Don+, Sounds like you are walking a narrow path. My suggestion is to try a systematic approach to cold weather starting. Here's how I might proceed. Fuel on, choke in the normal run (off) position, throttle closed. Try to start it. If it starts ok, if not then... Fuel on, choke open maybe 1/3, throttle closed. Try to start it. If it starts ok, if not then... Fuel on, choke open maybe 1/2, throttle closed. Try to start it. If it starts ok, if not then... Fuel on, choke open maybe 3/4, throttle closed. Try to start it. If it starts ok, if not then... Fuel on, choke open all the way, throttle closed. Try to start it. It should start by now. : ) All of these steps keep the throttle closed when you are trying to start it. The reason is the choke is really an enricher on this carb. That means it's like a little carb inside the carb. When engaged it will allow extra fuel to be sucked into the air/fuel mixture and if it's the correct ratio for the conditions it will help the engine start. The "extra" fuel will only get sucked into the air/fuel mix if there is enough vacuum on the downstream side of the carb. That vacuum is created by having the throttle plate closed. If you open the throttle the vacuum will be reduced and no "extra" fuel will get sucked into the air/fuel mixture. When the engine is flooded and you open the throttle, the air/fuel mixture is leaned out (less fuel) and if it gets to the right ratio for the conditions the engine might start. So using the above suggestions you are starting lean and working richer in the air/fuel mixture. You could also I suppose just begin with the choke closed and while cranking the engine slowly open it until it kicks off. It may take a few attempts to figure out what your bike likes for cold starting. It's also probably helpful to have a fully charged battery so the engine can get the fastest spin possible which will also help with starting. Hope this is helpful. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT

On Oct 29, 2007, at 7:03 AM, Don Pendergraft wrote:

> Is it just me, or are KLR's hard to start when it's below 40 > degrees F?

Don, a couple suggestions beyond Jeff's usual excellent advice: 1) Check those valves. Yeah, I know the manual says they're fine for 15K, but call me skeptical. 2) Make sure all the cells in your battery are topped up with distilled water. You can only see one of the six cells when the battery is installed on the bike, so you'll have to remove it and give it a good eyeballing. Oh, and yes a 100W trouble light to warm the engine would make it turn over easier. Dunno if it'll make it start dramatically faster, but it'll be easier on the battery and the starter. -- Blake Sobiloff http://www.sobiloff.com/> San Jose, CA (USA) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you Jeff! That's a great explanation and I can see where I was making some mistakes. I look forward to testing it out. Concerning having a fully charged battery, I haven't thought of buying a tender because I ride at least 2 hours a day on the beast, so it's always fully charged. However, I'm thinking that winter may change the equation a bit. Sure it's fully charged, but does a cold night sap some of it's power so that I would not have an optimal charge on a frosty morning when I try to start her up? Not sure if this is true, but it makes some sense. If so, mayhaps a tender would be good to keep on it during the winter months, even if I ride daily. Your thoughts? Don+ -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Saline [mailto:salinej1@...] Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 7:28 PM To: dpendergraft@... Cc: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Tips to Starting in Cold Weather Needed.... On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 13:40:03 -0500 "Don Pendergraft" writes:

> Jeff, > When I start my KLR in the morning I have the choke full open. I then > hit the starter button and wait for to hear it kind of act like it's > going to start, then give it a bit of gas. That usually does it. When > it's cold, it just cranks and cranks. So I try a bit more gas. I then > can even smell the gas, as in "I hope I didn't flood it". But I keep > at it. I then turn off the choke and try in case I overdid it on the > choke. Then I put the choke back on and try. And so on. Eventually I > keep cranking it and it will sputter and then start right up and is > fine. I then heave a giant sigh of relief. I'm sorry I can't explain > it any better. I leave the house before 6AM and it's dark. Maybe I > should illuminate my KLR with a light and shoot a video of me starting > it and then post it online. Heh. Maybe I will. > > Don+

<><><><><><><> <><><><><><><> Don+, Sounds like you are walking a narrow path. My suggestion is to try a systematic approach to cold weather starting. Here's how I might proceed. Fuel on, choke in the normal run (off) position, throttle closed. Try to start it. If it starts ok, if not then... Fuel on, choke open maybe 1/3, throttle closed. Try to start it. If it starts ok, if not then... Fuel on, choke open maybe 1/2, throttle closed. Try to start it. If it starts ok, if not then... Fuel on, choke open maybe 3/4, throttle closed. Try to start it. If it starts ok, if not then... Fuel on, choke open all the way, throttle closed. Try to start it. It should start by now. : ) All of these steps keep the throttle closed when you are trying to start it. The reason is the choke is really an enricher on this carb. That means it's like a little carb inside the carb. When engaged it will allow extra fuel to be sucked into the air/fuel mixture and if it's the correct ratio for the conditions it will help the engine start. The "extra" fuel will only get sucked into the air/fuel mix if there is enough vacuum on the downstream side of the carb. That vacuum is created by having the throttle plate closed. If you open the throttle the vacuum will be reduced and no "extra" fuel will get sucked into the air/fuel mixture. When the engine is flooded and you open the throttle, the air/fuel mixture is leaned out (less fuel) and if it gets to the right ratio for the conditions the engine might start. So using the above suggestions you are starting lean and working richer in the air/fuel mixture. You could also I suppose just begin with the choke closed and while cranking the engine slowly open it until it kicks off. It may take a few attempts to figure out what your bike likes for cold starting. It's also probably helpful to have a fully charged battery so the engine can get the fastest spin possible which will also help with starting. Hope this is helpful. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT

Hmmn. You mean I should trust Kawi's recommended 15K mile 1st check of my valves? ) I'm closing in rapidly on 10K and haven't checked them yet. I'm skeered. ) Naw. I just need to order the shim kit and have a good warm (no garage!) saturday to do it. Question: would out of adjustment valves lead to bad gas mileage (43-46mpg highway)? Oil usage (a quart of Amsoil every 500 miles)? Don+ _____ From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gmay131313 Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 6:59 PM To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Tips to Starting in Cold Weather Needed.... Hi Don, I realize there are differences between my 04 and your 08 and others could probably speak to what those are but I can say mine with 10-40 Kawasaki brand syn oil in it and the jetting left factory stock fire up as soon as you touch the button with the original battery installed in weather as cold as -10C...and nope I din't go for a ride. My bike spent it's first 3000km with the original owner who supposedly had the 500km service completed including the valves checked, never said if any needed setting but when I checked them at 10000km all needed to be set with the exhausts believe being just above the min clearence. I would suspect that if yours were checked there clearance would be too "closed for comfort" causing at least some of your hard starting. Have a great day...Greg --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com, "Don Pendergraft" wrote:

> > Is it just me, or are KLR's hard to start when it's below 40

degrees F? I

> fear my battery is going to be run down before I get it started.

OK, a few

> details. I have an '08 with about 10K miles on it. It runs great.

Well, it

> does burn oil, but I don't think that's related to hard starting in

cold

> weather. I haven't checked the valves yet as the SM doesn't call

for it

> until 15K miles. Not sure how I'm going to start it when it's 25

out. Will

> pointing a 100W bulb at the engine help? I haven't been

stranded...yet. This

> is the ONLY time it is hard to start. The rest of the day, no prob.

All

> other mornings when it's warmer, no problem. Ideas? Thanks in

advance.

> > Don+ > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The check valve answer makes sense and has gained some momentum on the list! Thanks Blake. I appreciate it very much. Don+ _____ From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Blake Sobiloff Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 9:31 PM To: dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Tips to Starting in Cold Weather Needed....

On Oct 29, 2007, at 7:03 AM, Don Pendergraft wrote: > Is it just me, or are KLR's hard to start when it's below 40 > degrees F? Don, a couple suggestions beyond Jeff's usual excellent advice: 1) Check those valves. Yeah, I know the manual says they're fine for 15K, but call me skeptical. 2) Make sure all the cells in your battery are topped up with distilled water. You can only see one of the six cells when the battery is installed on the bike, so you'll have to remove it and give it a good eyeballing. Oh, and yes a 100W trouble light to warm the engine would make it turn over easier. Dunno if it'll make it start dramatically faster, but it'll be easier on the battery and the starter. -- Blake Sobiloff com> http://www.sobiloff http://www.sobiloff.com/> .com/> San Jose, CA (USA) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Don Pendergraft" wrote:

> > Hmmn. You mean I should trust Kawi's recommended 15K mile 1st check of my > valves? ) > > I'm closing in rapidly on 10K and haven't checked them yet. I'm skeered. ) > Naw. I just need to order the shim kit and have a good warm (no garage!) > saturday to do it. > > Question: would out of adjustment valves lead to bad gas mileage (43-46mpg > highway)? Oil usage (a quart of Amsoil every 500 miles)? > > Don+ >

Kawasaki used to recommend a first valve check at 500 miles. Dealers routinely skipped this one as "unnecessary" (or charged you for it without even looking at the clearances). Nevertheless, many tight valves have been observed at 500 by those who actually take the time to check them. AFAIK, there have been no changes to the valve train, and no evidence to warrant delaying the first inspection until 15000 miles. Tight valve clearances could affect mileage, but probably not oil consumption.