Wilsons Sandbox

Hey all, Does anyone have any experience with extracting broken camshaft-backet bolts off the engine head? Without removing the head, that is... I was putting new valve shims and using a torque wrench that is a bit too large and it didn't snap at the 12 Nm setting, instead the bolt snapped. thanks much for any advice/comments. vlado

On 5/27/06, knightsabre75 wrote: > > (Re-tagged as NKLR?, as this seems to be getting more about radio gear > than KLRs! ^_^) > > Hey > > The thru-glass antenna is an idea I hadn't thought of...I may have to try > that. > > My plan with the Kenwood mobile was to have just one radio/antenna on the > bike for both > my APRS and voice com. One antenna, one headset, one power lead. > Is the Motorola box plastic or metal? I'm using a Pelican 1500 box to > house my > electronics, running the wires out the bottom through the toolbox opening > in the rack > plate. Since I don't have that particular radio yet, I haven't cut any > additional holes in the > box yet. Once I get all my hardware together, I plan on taking pictures > of the install, and > posting them online. > > 73 de n0xlt > > Warren > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "PATRICK J. CASSELS" > wrote: > > > > Hi there.........I use my Ham Radio on the KLR for everything from > everyday > > rides to covering special events with my group CERT BC. > > > > I use a pryme helmet mike setup with both the VX5 and the W32. I also > use > > mounted on my rear rack a Motorola Motorcycle box ( the ones still used > on > > some Police Bikes ) and in that I have a dual band amplifier 5 to 30 for > > when I need extra power. I also run a 5/8 antenna on the box. For APRS > > consider using a glass mount antenna on the plastic body panels........I > > know a few that have and it seems t work just fine. > > > > 73 VE7ONE > > Pat > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jeffrey Feldman" > > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 11:19 AM > > Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Ham Radio and KLRs > > > > > > > Yup. I carry my Kenwood TH-F6 if going off-road. It fits nicely into > my > > > Wolfman glove box. If going to unfamiliar places I also carry the > ARRL > > > repeater guild. > > > > > > 73, > > > KG6YOF > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] > On > > > Behalf Of knightsabre75 > > > Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 1:41 AM > > > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Ham Radio and KLRs > > > > > > Yeah, I carry my VX-7R with me everywhere I go! If I have it in use, > I > > > just > > > tuck it into the > > > back pocket of my Explorer tankbag, connected to my headset box. I'm > > > currently using a > > > cheap Radio Shack throat mic headset with it, but the audio quality is > > > really lacking, plus > > > the earpiece gets VERY uncomfortable. I am planning to get an AutoCom > > > audio > > > interface/ > > > helmet headset, since they seem to be the most 'bang for the buck" of > any > > > of > > > the generic > > > motorcycle audio systems out there, plus they make a VX-7 cable to > fit! > > > > > > Ultimately, I would like to mount a Kenwood TM-D700A in my tailbox > > > (Pelican > > > 1500), to > > > run APRS as well as higher-powered VHF/UHF. I would mount the antenna > on > > > the rear > > > crossbar of my pannier rack, or directly to a metal plate bolted > between > > > the > > > luggage rack > > > and the tailbox. > > > > > > 73, and keep the rubber side down > > > N0XLT > > > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "pinemtklr" wrote: > > >> > > >> I was wondering are there any ham radio operators in the group and if > > >> so do you keep a radio on your KLR > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > > > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > > > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > > > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > > > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Your description of the problem is not real good. But if one bolt of the cam shaft caps is snapped, I'd remove the other bolts and take the camshaft out. Hopefully you know have a stud sticking up and can grip it with a good pair of channel locks, cobra pliers , 6" pipe wrench or vise grips. If the bolt broke flush with the lower surface I'd use a good sharp small center punch and a 48oz mallet. And punch it counter-clockwise. Stay away from drilling and easy outs. It is a art to removing broken bolts aquired my a few failures and destruction and it may be MUCH, MUCHO cheaper just to take the bike to some independant, even if you have to PUSH THE BIKE a mile or two to a car garage and let that mechanic remove this bolt. The messier and older/uglier the shop and mechanic should be trusted. good luck. --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Vlado Gelev" wrote:

> > Hey all, > > Does anyone have any experience with extracting broken camshaft-

backet bolts

> off the engine head? Without removing the head, that is... > > I was putting new valve shims and using a torque wrench that is a

bit too

> large > and it didn't snap at the 12 Nm setting, instead the bolt snapped. > > thanks much for any advice/comments. > > vlado > > On 5/27/06, knightsabre75 wrote: > > > > (Re-tagged as NKLR?, as this seems to be getting more about radio

gear

> > than KLRs! ^_^) > > > > Hey > > > > The thru-glass antenna is an idea I hadn't thought of...I may

have to try

> > that. > > > > My plan with the Kenwood mobile was to have just one

radio/antenna on the

> > bike for both > > my APRS and voice com. One antenna, one headset, one power lead. > > Is the Motorola box plastic or metal? I'm using a Pelican 1500

box to

> > house my > > electronics, running the wires out the bottom through the toolbox

opening

> > in the rack > > plate. Since I don't have that particular radio yet, I haven't

cut any

> > additional holes in the > > box yet. Once I get all my hardware together, I plan on taking

pictures

> > of the install, and > > posting them online. > > > > 73 de n0xlt > > > > Warren > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "PATRICK J. CASSELS"

> > wrote: > > > > > > Hi there.........I use my Ham Radio on the KLR for everything

from

> > everyday > > > rides to covering special events with my group CERT BC. > > > > > > I use a pryme helmet mike setup with both the VX5 and the W32.

I also

> > use > > > mounted on my rear rack a Motorola Motorcycle box ( the ones

still used

> > on > > > some Police Bikes ) and in that I have a dual band amplifier 5

to 30 for

> > > when I need extra power. I also run a 5/8 antenna on the box.

For APRS

> > > consider using a glass mount antenna on the plastic body

panels........I

> > > know a few that have and it seems t work just fine. > > > > > > 73 VE7ONE > > > Pat > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Jeffrey Feldman" > > > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 11:19 AM > > > Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Ham Radio and KLRs > > > > > > > > > > Yup. I carry my Kenwood TH-F6 if going off-road. It fits

nicely into

> > my > > > > Wolfman glove box. If going to unfamiliar places I also

carry the

> > ARRL > > > > repeater guild. > > > > > > > > 73, > > > > KG6YOF > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com]

> > On > > > > Behalf Of knightsabre75 > > > > Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 1:41 AM > > > > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Ham Radio and KLRs > > > > > > > > Yeah, I carry my VX-7R with me everywhere I go! If I have it

in use,

> > I > > > > just > > > > tuck it into the > > > > back pocket of my Explorer tankbag, connected to my headset

box. I'm

> > > > currently using a > > > > cheap Radio Shack throat mic headset with it, but the audio

quality is

> > > > really lacking, plus > > > > the earpiece gets VERY uncomfortable. I am planning to get

an AutoCom

> > > > audio > > > > interface/ > > > > helmet headset, since they seem to be the most 'bang for the

buck" of

> > any > > > > of > > > > the generic > > > > motorcycle audio systems out there, plus they make a VX-7

cable to

> > fit! > > > > > > > > Ultimately, I would like to mount a Kenwood TM-D700A in my

tailbox

> > > > (Pelican > > > > 1500), to > > > > run APRS as well as higher-powered VHF/UHF. I would mount

the antenna

> > on > > > > the rear > > > > crossbar of my pannier rack, or directly to a metal plate

bolted

> > between > > > > the > > > > luggage rack > > > > and the tailbox. > > > > > > > > 73, and keep the rubber side down > > > > N0XLT > > > > > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "pinemtklr"

wrote:

> > > >> > > > >> I was wondering are there any ham radio operators in the

group and if

> > > >> so do you keep a radio on your KLR > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > > > > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > > > > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at:

www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html

> > > > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > > > > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > > > > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at:

www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html

> > > > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

There is an art to removing a broken screw with a center punch. It can be done but requires some expreience. Use as a second to last resort. Be careful to punch around the outer diamter of the broken bolt and holding the punch at an angle that prevents it leaving the punch dimple but also has some rotary movement to back out the stud. If the punch gets too close to the very outer diameter of the of the stud, it will mushroom the the stud or mangle the threads, making it even tougher to remove the broken stud. Once it gets to that point, the head will have to come off. Machining will be involved. Applying some heat around the threaded hole to expand may also help, but caution must be used since there is oil present and too much heat is not going to be good for the head or components. I've removed alot many broken screws over the years. If you get it out - you're a hero. Learning to quit before major head damage is done is also an art. Definitely remove the cam before attempting this. If the head just twisted off, and the stud is above flush, you are lucking and some vice grips should do the trick. -Greg

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "klr6501995" wrote: > > Your description of the problem is not real good. But if one bolt of > the cam shaft caps is snapped, I'd remove the other bolts and take > the camshaft out. > > Hopefully you know have a stud sticking up and can grip it with a > good pair of channel locks, cobra pliers , 6" pipe wrench or vise > grips. > > If the bolt broke flush with the lower surface I'd use a good sharp > small center punch and a 48oz mallet. And punch it counter- clockwise. > > Stay away from drilling and easy outs. > > It is a art to removing broken bolts aquired my a few failures and > destruction and it may be MUCH, MUCHO cheaper just to take the bike > to some independant, even if you have to PUSH THE BIKE a mile or two > to a car garage and let that mechanic remove this bolt. The messier > and older/uglier the shop and mechanic should be trusted. > > good luck. > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Vlado Gelev" > wrote: > > > > Hey all, > > > > Does anyone have any experience with extracting broken camshaft- > backet bolts > > off the engine head? Without removing the head, that is... > > > > I was putting new valve shims and using a torque wrench that is a > bit too > > large > > and it didn't snap at the 12 Nm setting, instead the bolt snapped. > > > > thanks much for any advice/comments. > > > > vlado > > > > On 5/27/06, knightsabre75 wrote: > > > > > > (Re-tagged as NKLR?, as this seems to be getting more about radio > gear > > > than KLRs! ^_^) > > > > > > Hey > > > > > > The thru-glass antenna is an idea I hadn't thought of...I may > have to try > > > that. > > > > > > My plan with the Kenwood mobile was to have just one > radio/antenna on the > > > bike for both > > > my APRS and voice com. One antenna, one headset, one power lead. > > > Is the Motorola box plastic or metal? I'm using a Pelican 1500 > box to > > > house my > > > electronics, running the wires out the bottom through the toolbox > opening > > > in the rack > > > plate. Since I don't have that particular radio yet, I haven't > cut any > > > additional holes in the > > > box yet. Once I get all my hardware together, I plan on taking > pictures > > > of the install, and > > > posting them online. > > > > > > 73 de n0xlt > > > > > > Warren > > > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "PATRICK J. CASSELS" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi there.........I use my Ham Radio on the KLR for everything > from > > > everyday > > > > rides to covering special events with my group CERT BC. > > > > > > > > I use a pryme helmet mike setup with both the VX5 and the W32. > I also > > > use > > > > mounted on my rear rack a Motorola Motorcycle box ( the ones > still used > > > on > > > > some Police Bikes ) and in that I have a dual band amplifier 5 > to 30 for > > > > when I need extra power. I also run a 5/8 antenna on the box. > For APRS > > > > consider using a glass mount antenna on the plastic body > panels........I > > > > know a few that have and it seems t work just fine. > > > > > > > > 73 VE7ONE > > > > Pat > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Jeffrey Feldman" > > > > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 11:19 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Ham Radio and KLRs > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yup. I carry my Kenwood TH-F6 if going off-road. It fits > nicely into > > > my > > > > > Wolfman glove box. If going to unfamiliar places I also > carry the > > > ARRL > > > > > repeater guild. > > > > > > > > > > 73, > > > > > KG6YOF > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of knightsabre75 > > > > > Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 1:41 AM > > > > > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Ham Radio and KLRs > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, I carry my VX-7R with me everywhere I go! If I have it > in use, > > > I > > > > > just > > > > > tuck it into the > > > > > back pocket of my Explorer tankbag, connected to my headset > box. I'm > > > > > currently using a > > > > > cheap Radio Shack throat mic headset with it, but the audio > quality is > > > > > really lacking, plus > > > > > the earpiece gets VERY uncomfortable. I am planning to get > an AutoCom > > > > > audio > > > > > interface/ > > > > > helmet headset, since they seem to be the most 'bang for the > buck" of > > > any > > > > > of > > > > > the generic > > > > > motorcycle audio systems out there, plus they make a VX-7 > cable to > > > fit! > > > > > > > > > > Ultimately, I would like to mount a Kenwood TM-D700A in my > tailbox > > > > > (Pelican > > > > > 1500), to > > > > > run APRS as well as higher-powered VHF/UHF. I would mount > the antenna > > > on > > > > > the rear > > > > > crossbar of my pannier rack, or directly to a metal plate > bolted > > > between > > > > > the > > > > > luggage rack > > > > > and the tailbox. > > > > > > > > > > 73, and keep the rubber side down > > > > > N0XLT > > > > > > > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "pinemtklr" > wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> I was wondering are there any ham radio operators in the > group and if > > > > >> so do you keep a radio on your KLR > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > > > > > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > > > > > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: > www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > > > > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > > > > > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > > > > > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: > www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > > > > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > > > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > > > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Now you will buy a proper range torque wrench. This is a common do-it-yourself issue because torque wrenches simply should not be used in the lower 20% of their range. As for the broken bolt. When a bolt breaks (or any other fastener) one must consider the reason for the breakage as this will point the way for removal. A bolt which was broken buy torque (twisted off) because it was bottomed or seized will typically require too much torque to remove than will be able to be provided by "easy outs" or other extractors. These will usually have be drilled out to the root diameter of the threads. Drilling must be done exactly on centre and perfectly axially or you will create even bigger problems! Fasteners which have been broken by tension (pulled apart) are typically easier to remove than torque breakage because the threads are usually intact and the fastener is usually quite free to turn in the threads. Since your cap-screw (technically it is not a bolt because it was not used with a nut) apparently broke due to excessive tension (pulled apart) is should be quite free in the threads. Remove the cam bearing cap in increase access and consider what is likely to be retaining the broken section. Is it possible that you inserted the wrong (too long) cap-screw which bottomed out in the hole? If so this is a torque failure rather than a tension one. Also, is it likely that something is in the bottom of the hole which jammed the end of the cap-screw and caused a bottom out, torque failure? *Note: The fact that you were using a torque wrench is not pertinent to whether the failure was a torque (twist) or tension (pull) failure. If you are satisfied that it is most likely a tension failure (my bet in this case), stop and run a hand across your forehead while making a "whew" sound. This is not a big deal in most cases unless you cause it to be one. The next thing to do is to have a good look at the end of the screw and see if you notice a bit of the broken end which is twisted outward and locking the broken bit into the other threads. If so, use a pick to snag the offender back and the broken bit may be able to be turned out with a bit of care by use of the tip of the pick. Don't snap the pick into the threads as this will make it harder to turn the broken bit out. If it doesn't move, take a pin punch and carefully tap the end of the broken bit downward. Hit directly in line with the hole and take care not to allow the punch to slide sideways and damage the threads. Also avoid hitting an angled portion of the broken bit as this can drive the angled portion sideways into the threads. The purpose of tapping the broken bit inward is to relieve any mis-aligned small section of thread. Now use a pick to carefully attempt to turn the broken bit out. They will often respond. If the broken bit will not turn, it will likely need to be drilled so that torque can be applied to thread the broken bit out. Stop here! If you are not competent to drill precisely on centre and in line with the broken bit, do not start or you will be in a world of deep s%$^&t, as you term it. The broken bit of cap-screw must be drilled exactly in line with the axial centre of the hole or you will likely drill out through the broken section and into the head threads. This will effectively lock the broken bit into the head to prevent a extractor from turning it out. Further attempts to drill along the misaligned hole will cause the broken section to rotate so as to jam the drill bit, break the bit and add the the disaster. Techs seeing this kind of disaster usually correctly refer to the parentage of those who have committed such offences! I have removed hundreds of broken fasteners in my career and the worst are always those which some idiot has drilled off centre and/or out of line. Do not do this! Drilling a broken fastener on centre is not rocket science. Simply put the centre punch on the exact centre of the end, hit the punch to make a punch mark. Do it gently and have a careful look. Does the punch mark sit exactly on centre? If not, put the punch where it should have been and gently make another punch mark. It may be necessary to tip the punch to one side and enlarge the punch mark in the direction desired. When the mark is centred, put the centre punch into the mark and give it a good smack to make a good, deep mark. The broken screw is 6 mm so the root diameter of the threads will be about 80% of that. You don't want to drill larger than the root diameter of the threads or you will be drilling thread material from the head. Another consideration is that you want to allow some margin for error. On the other side of the coin, you will need to use the largest thread extractor possible so that it is as strong as possible. I frequently see seized fasteners which have been broken by torque (twisted off) in which there is an embedded broken extractor of too small a size to have been of any benefit. It is difficult to relate politely to someone who would attempt to use a tiny tool to attempt to rotate a large screw which was twisted off! It is important to recognize that the extractor tool will not be as strong as the larger cross sectioned screw which failed to withstand the twisting force. Basic physics will prevent a world of deep s%$^&t ! Practice drilling on some scrap metal. You should practice drilling a centre punched mark. Ask someone to observe and help to ensure that you are keeping the drill in line with the surface of the metal. This will be the same exercise as drilling the broken screw. Use a sharp bit of the size required for the extractor you intend to use. For beginners, I recommend square, tapered extractors for this kind of application as the are easier to (translation- "It may be barely possible to remove a broken one.") remove if broken than some others. Drill slowly at slow drill speed with light force on the drill. Drilling slowly and checking often will allow you to (hopefully) notice if you are not drilling straight before it is too late to change direction. I recommend using a left hand (reverse rotation) drill bit because these will often simply thread out a broken screw under these conditions if they are turned slowly and if the broken bit of screw is loosened with a bit of gently tapping. Gently! Drilling with light force on the drill will reduce the chance of snapping the drill bit which is not a good idea. Take your time and drill completely through the broken piece. Inspection of the other part of the broken screw in comparison with an unbroken one will indicate how far to drill. Take care when drilling through the end of the broken screw as this is an easy time to slip and break the drill bit. Also, it might be better not to drill through the head and add to your problems. (Just a thought, VBG) Drilling completely through the broken section will usually cause the section to shrink slightly and help to release it. Use your pin punch to gently tap the broken section again to help release it from the head threads but don't hit the head threads. Gently is the word. Now gently tap the extractor into the drilled hole. Take care to drive the extractor straight into the hole. Tap the extractor in only a bit, just to get it in a bit. Now use a tap handle to apply even torque to the extractor. Do not bend the extractor to the side as you do not want to snap the extractor. Gently turn the extractor back and forth, in and out. Turn only about 5 degrees or less if the broken screw resists. When the screw begins to move, keep turning in and out, gradually moving outward but stopping if the screw resists. The idea is not to twist the extractor off! It is also important not to bend the extractor from side to side as this will break the extractor. If the extractor twists out of the end of the broken screw, tap it in a bit further. Unfortunately this technique impossible to adequately describe in writing. It will be much as following a written description for a high speed cross ditch manoeuvre. Much common sense and care is needed along with the description. While the consequences of screwing up the extraction can be very serious, these kinds of fastener removals are usually very easy because they are usually quite loose in the threads. One other bit of advice. Be advised as to whose help you accept in dealing with this kind of problem. The road to hell is paved with the efforts of the well intended.... You don't need the help of the guy who has a need to show you how much he knows. That's usually the one who really screws things up. Please email directly if I can be of further help. Norm

>Does anyone have any experience with >extracting broken camshaft-bracket >bolts >off the engine head? Without removing the >head, that is... >I was putting new valve shims and using a >torque wrench that is a bit too >large >and it didn't snap at the 12 Nm setting, >instead the bolt snapped.

Hi all, So, I removed the cylinder head and extracted the screw with no damage. Norm was right - it was pulled apart rather than jammed-in, and therefore it was loose in the thread. "easy-out" with a drill worked well. Thanks very much to everyone for the excellent advice! Does anyone have any tips on installing the cyliner head back on without damage? I have the right torque wrenches now (stoopid!), getting a new head gasket, cleaned the head in solvent, scraped the old head gasket residue... the reason why i started messing with the valve check in the first place, is that I thought that the engine is running too rich - there is carbon soot at the rear fender from the exhaust, and my gas mileage is low (~40 mpg). but the valves were pretty much within spec - 3 were at lowest allowed gap and one exhaust valve was .05mm tighter than spec (.1 instead of .15mm). i put new shims to get all valves in the middle of the spec range. (so then, when installing the cams back i broke a screw inside the cylinder head and had to remove the head to get it out) (moral of the story: get a small 1/4 inch torque wrench with the right torque range) when i removed the cyliner head, i noticed that there is lots of black soot at the start of the exhaust, but the spark plug looks perfect - tan color and no deposit. The cylinder chamber and valve surfaces are also tan and no deposit so that looks like the air-gas misture is fine. The carburetor float level is right, and the pilot jet is 1 3/8 turns out, as specified in the manual. But the cylinder crown has a thick layer of burnt toast-looking deposit. Is that normal? And why would the exhaust be so black if there 's no deposit on the spark plug? Any suggestions / comments? thanks much and sorry for the long description. hopefully that would save someone else some hassle. vlado

On 5/27/06, Vlado Gelev wrote: > > Hey all, > > Does anyone have any experience with extracting broken camshaft-backet > bolts > off the engine head? Without removing the head, that is... > > I was putting new valve shims and using a torque wrench that is a bit too > large > and it didn't snap at the 12 Nm setting, instead the bolt snapped. > > thanks much for any advice/comments. > > vlado > > On 5/27/06, knightsabre75 wrote: > > > > (Re-tagged as NKLR?, as this seems to be getting more about radio gear > > than KLRs! ^_^) > > > > Hey > > > > The thru-glass antenna is an idea I hadn't thought of...I may have to > > try that. > > > > My plan with the Kenwood mobile was to have just one radio/antenna on > > the bike for both > > my APRS and voice com. One antenna, one headset, one power lead. > > Is the Motorola box plastic or metal? I'm using a Pelican 1500 box to > > house my > > electronics, running the wires out the bottom through the toolbox > > opening in the rack > > plate. Since I don't have that particular radio yet, I haven't cut any > > additional holes in the > > box yet. Once I get all my hardware together, I plan on taking pictures > > of the install, and > > posting them online. > > > > 73 de n0xlt > > > > Warren > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "PATRICK J. CASSELS" > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi there.........I use my Ham Radio on the KLR for everything from > > everyday > > > rides to covering special events with my group CERT BC. > > > > > > I use a pryme helmet mike setup with both the VX5 and the W32. I also > > use > > > mounted on my rear rack a Motorola Motorcycle box ( the ones still > > used on > > > some Police Bikes ) and in that I have a dual band amplifier 5 to 30 > > for > > > when I need extra power. I also run a 5/8 antenna on the box. For > > APRS > > > consider using a glass mount antenna on the plastic body > > panels........I > > > know a few that have and it seems t work just fine. > > > > > > 73 VE7ONE > > > Pat > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Jeffrey Feldman" > > > To: < DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 11:19 AM > > > Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Ham Radio and KLRs > > > > > > > > > > Yup. I carry my Kenwood TH-F6 if going off-road. It fits nicely > > into my > > > > Wolfman glove box. If going to unfamiliar places I also carry the > > ARRL > > > > repeater guild. > > > > > > > > 73, > > > > KG6YOF > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > > > Behalf Of knightsabre75 > > > > Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 1:41 AM > > > > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Ham Radio and KLRs > > > > > > > > Yeah, I carry my VX-7R with me everywhere I go! If I have it in > > use, I > > > > just > > > > tuck it into the > > > > back pocket of my Explorer tankbag, connected to my headset > > box. I'm > > > > currently using a > > > > cheap Radio Shack throat mic headset with it, but the audio quality > > is > > > > really lacking, plus > > > > the earpiece gets VERY uncomfortable. I am planning to get an > > AutoCom > > > > audio > > > > interface/ > > > > helmet headset, since they seem to be the most 'bang for the buck" > > of any > > > > of > > > > the generic > > > > motorcycle audio systems out there, plus they make a VX-7 cable to > > fit! > > > > > > > > Ultimately, I would like to mount a Kenwood TM-D700A in my tailbox > > > > (Pelican > > > > 1500), to > > > > run APRS as well as higher-powered VHF/UHF. I would mount the > > antenna on > > > > the rear > > > > crossbar of my pannier rack, or directly to a metal plate bolted > > between > > > > the > > > > luggage rack > > > > and the tailbox. > > > > > > > > 73, and keep the rubber side down > > > > N0XLT > > > > > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "pinemtklr" wrote: > > > >> > > > >> I was wondering are there any ham radio operators in the group and > > if > > > >> so do you keep a radio on your KLR > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > > > > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > > > > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > > > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > > > > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > > > > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > > > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > Does anyone have any tips on installing the cyliner head back on

without

> damage? > I have the right torque wrenches now (stoopid!), > getting a new head gasket, > cleaned the head in solvent, scraped the old head gasket residue... > > the reason why i started messing with the valve check in the first

place, is

> that > I thought that the engine is running too rich - there is carbon

soot at the

> rear fender > from the exhaust, and my gas mileage is low (~40 mpg). > but the valves were pretty much within spec - 3 were at lowest

allowed gap

> and one exhaust valve was .05mm tighter than spec (.1 instead

of .15mm). i

> put new shims to get all valves in the middle of the spec range. > (so then, when installing the cams back i broke a screw inside the

cylinder

> head and had to remove the head to get it out) > (moral of the story: get a small 1/4 inch torque wrench with the

right

> torque range) > > when i removed the cyliner head, i noticed that there is lots of

black soot

> at the start of the exhaust, but the spark plug looks perfect - > tan color and no deposit. The cylinder chamber and valve surfaces

are also

> tan and no deposit > so that looks like the air-gas misture is fine. The carburetor

float level

> is right, and the pilot jet is 1 3/8 turns out, as specified in the

manual.

> But the cylinder crown has a thick layer of burnt toast-looking

deposit. Is

> that normal? And why would the exhaust be so black if there 's no

deposit on

> the spark plug? > > Any suggestions / comments? > > thanks much and sorry for the long description. hopefully that

would save

> someone else some hassle. > vlado

Since you have the head off I would suggest replacing the valve stem seals before putting everything back together. The KLR seals don't seem to last long and the exhaust side go first and can be the cause of the carbon deposits you see. The seals sold by www.multisurfacemotorcycling.com are better and cost less than the OEM seals. Kurt

Kurt, the bike only has 2900 miles on it. you think it's possible that the seals are leaky already? the manual has a leak test using solvent. i'll do that first, i guess. Greg, the bike is all stock - muffler,sprockets and all. i get 40ish mpg no matter what - city, highway, 55 mph. best i've gotten was 45 mpg. thanks vlado

On 5/29/06, Kurt Grife wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone have any tips on installing the cyliner head back on > without > > damage? > > I have the right torque wrenches now (stoopid!), > > getting a new head gasket, > > cleaned the head in solvent, scraped the old head gasket residue... > > > > the reason why i started messing with the valve check in the first > place, is > > that > > I thought that the engine is running too rich - there is carbon > soot at the > > rear fender > > from the exhaust, and my gas mileage is low (~40 mpg). > > but the valves were pretty much within spec - 3 were at lowest > allowed gap > > and one exhaust valve was .05mm tighter than spec (.1 instead > of .15mm). i > > put new shims to get all valves in the middle of the spec range. > > (so then, when installing the cams back i broke a screw inside the > cylinder > > head and had to remove the head to get it out) > > (moral of the story: get a small 1/4 inch torque wrench with the > right > > torque range) > > > > when i removed the cyliner head, i noticed that there is lots of > black soot > > at the start of the exhaust, but the spark plug looks perfect - > > tan color and no deposit. The cylinder chamber and valve surfaces > are also > > tan and no deposit > > so that looks like the air-gas misture is fine. The carburetor > float level > > is right, and the pilot jet is 1 3/8 turns out, as specified in the > manual. > > But the cylinder crown has a thick layer of burnt toast-looking > deposit. Is > > that normal? And why would the exhaust be so black if there 's no > deposit on > > the spark plug? > > > > Any suggestions / comments? > > > > thanks much and sorry for the long description. hopefully that > would save > > someone else some hassle. > > vlado > > > Since you have the head off I would suggest replacing the valve stem > seals before putting everything back together. The KLR seals don't > seem to last long and the exhaust side go first and can be the cause > of the carbon deposits you see. The seals sold by > www.multisurfacemotorcycling.com are better and cost less than the > OEM seals. > Kurt > > > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Has it did better in the past? Just noticing a drop in mileage? Seems like it's only barely broke in. Until the rings fully seat, lower mileage can happen. I'm stumped. I've heard a few others remark on lower mpg and suspect ethanol in the fuel may be to blame. If you were willing to take on a valve adjustment, I would guess you've also checked the easy stuff like chain adjustment and tire pressure. Of course it could also be an overactive right wrist:-) -Greg

> Greg, > the bike is all stock - muffler,sprockets and all. i get 40ish mpg

no matter

> what - city, highway, 55 mph. best i've gotten was 45 mpg. > > thanks > > vlado

Yeah, overactive right wrist is the case for sure , but i did check tire pressure and the chain is ok - i mean, i can't see how 2-3 inches is enough with the soft suspension so its more like 4 inches of play when on sidestand... is that still tight? Greg, maybe you're right and the bike is still not fully broken in, although it in the very beginning it was 190 miles to reserve (4.5 gal -> 42 mpg) and then it went up to 195-200 at best (=44 mpg). now that i think about it, there is some drag when in neutral - it can slow down a little bit when going downhill. it didn't seem much but definitely some drag. the front brake sqeaks a bit but nothing major. maybe i need to check both wheels to see if there's significant drag on either one? also, is it possbile that the air filter is dirty if it doesn't look obviously dirty? it's the first time i'm having such oil-soaked thing and have no idea. at the 500 miles check it looked clean so i left it as is. sorry if this is too ignorant / long etc. thanks much. vlado

On 5/29/06, Greg Schmidt wrote: > > Has it did better in the past? Just noticing a drop in mileage? Seems > like it's only barely broke in. Until the rings fully seat, lower > mileage can happen. I'm stumped. I've heard a few others remark on > lower mpg and suspect ethanol in the fuel may be to blame. If you > were willing to take on a valve adjustment, I would guess you've also > checked the easy stuff like chain adjustment and tire pressure. > Of course it could also be an overactive right wrist:-) > > -Greg > > > Greg, > > the bike is all stock - muffler,sprockets and all. i get 40ish mpg > no matter > > what - city, highway, 55 mph. best i've gotten was 45 mpg. > > > > thanks > > > > vlado > > > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Excuse the double post. I started to mention Eagle Mike had recently addsessed this, then seen it was included at the bottom. -Greg --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Brent Tegler" wrote:

> > To all doo hickey replacers! > > We replaced the doo hickey on a 1991 KLR on the weekend and we did

not

> check the starter gear was free before putting the engine cover

back on.

> The bike started and we could hear the starter running

continuously so

> shut it down and took off the cover to find the starter gear would

not

> freewheel clockwise as it should. > > We loosened the rotor bolt off and re-tightened it slowly and

found that

> above 100 ft lbs the starter gear would bind. > > So please add to all doo hickey replacement manuals or how-to

guides

> instructions to check free clockwise movement of the starter gear

when

> you torque the rotor bolt. > > Cheers, Brent & Jim Tegler (Ontario Canada) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On

> Behalf Of wannabsmooth1 > Sent: May 29, 2006 7:55 PM > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Pre-96 Doo Hickey Replacement...... > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "guy_scharf" > wrote: > > > > Hi there I just purchased a '87 KLR with ~40 000km on it and the > > owner does not know if the doohickey has been replaced or not

(he's

> > had the bike for 8 years). > > > > I'd like to have it replaced to ensure I won't have a problem

down

> > the road but the kind fellow that has offered to assist me with

the

> > install has not done a pre '96 model before. > > > > Is there anything he should know about to ensure I have all the

right

> > parts and techniques available...? > > > > I plan to order the following parts for the job from Happy

Trail.com

> > as they seemed to be $50 cheaper than Arrowhead Motorsports: > > > > -doo hickey and spring for $39.95 > > > > - inner and outer gaskets and rotor bolt for another $48.85 > > > > - KLR650 Balancer Idler Lever Install Kit ($12.95+) > > > > Is that it or (my friend has the two tools required to do the re

and

> > re)? > > > > Thanks in advance folks! > > > I think you are comparing apples and oranges as far as pricing. The > prices for the parts are the same from Arrowhead and Happy Trails

when

> you buy the same parts. I would suggest you also buy the later

model

> adjustment bolt, oring, and washer. I don't think Happy Trails

stocks

> these, but they might. The earlier model adjustment bolt has a much > smaller head, so the pressure is applied to a smaller area, than

the

> later bikes. I have a write up on how I do it on

www.leftcoastklrs.com

> in the articles section. I would be very careful when torquing the > rotor bolt. Many of the pre 1996 bikes will not take the factory > recommended torque value of 130 ft-lbs. When torquing the bolt on

the

> early bikes, I go up 5 ft-lbs at a time from 95, checking to be

sure

> the starter gear will still free-wheel as it should (clockwise). My > phone number is on the instructions should you have any questions > during the process, if you buy from either of the two vendors > mentioned. (I'm the guy that makes the levers). > > all the best, > > Mike > > > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > Yahoo! Groups Links >