Wilsons Sandbox

>thicken to 40. The oil I was using tested at 20 at 100 degrees >centigrade (212 F) and was probably caused by shearing in the >transmission portion of the engine. This is too light for my >comfort.

>- TBN (Total Base Number) This is basically the ability of the >additives >to neutralize acid. New was 8.0 used was 7.5. This is real good >showing plenty of base is left. But with no viscosity the oil is >used up anyway. >I probably won't pay for the TBN test again as it costs $8 and if I >reduce the OCI (Oil Change Interval) it probably won't get worse.

>ZDDP I don't know what it really stands for and was asking how you get >less than none. The -0.09 is based on a slope given by the machine >that makes this measurement. I'm told this is outdated technology >although I know most motorcyclists interested in oil analysis think >it's very important. Scot thinks based on only one oil sample this >is probably still ok.

>- Si Silicon. Blake seemed impressed with my low Si number of 4.

>Oxidation My number was 34. Scot again thinks this looks safe. He >suggested an upper limit would be maybe 50-60. Oxidation causes an >increase in viscosity and leads to improper lubrication. I think I >got that right. >Nitration My number was 25. Again this needs a trend established to >really get any useful information. Scot thought an upper limit of 75% >was about right. But again, without a trend established this is like >asking how long is a piece of string.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Saline wrote: > > KLR Listers, > > Two days ago I submitted an oil sample from my 2003 KLR650 for oil > analysis. More below but here's the bottom line. > > I need to change my oil more often. > > Disclaimer: > For those reading further everything below is mine and any errors, > mistakes, improper interpretation etc is mine and only mine. If you are > an oil guru I'd be happy to hear your constructive thoughts about what > I'm presenting for your examination. This has been an eye opening > experience for me. Again, all the mistakes that follow are by me and > nobody else. > > I've got to thank Blake Sobiloff for his help in figuring out a bit about > what the results mean. I know he's taken quite a bit of time to try to > explain this to me. I also just spent 33 minutes on the phone with Scot, > the lab analyst that did the testing. His insight to the results and his > best guesses as to what's going on were very helpful. > > Here's some background. The bike is a 2003 KLR650 with 15,013 miles on > it. Oil is Valvoline 10W-40, API rating SL. This oil change interval > (OCI) was 1,733 miles and the filter is by Emgo and has 4,696 miles on > it. I was not using a magnetic drain plug. I had new oil sampled as > well as the used oil. The new oil only gives a thumbprint of the used > oil. The only way to really figure out what is happening with the oil > and engine is to establish a trend by further oil sampling. Remember > that! The only way to really figure out what is happening with the oil > and engine is to establish a trend by further oil sampling. > > Here is the SOS (Schedule Oil Sampling) Fluids Analysis. Below I'll > provide what I hope is correct and useful. > > Element | Virgin | This OCI (Oil Change Interval) > Cu 0 9 Copper > Fe 1 14 Iron > Cr 0 0 Chrome > Ni 0 0 Nickel > Ti 0 0 Titan > V 0 0 Vanad > Ag 0 0 Silver > Pb 0 2 Lead > Sn 1 0 Tin > Al 0 15 Aluminum > Si 1 4 Silicon > Na 5 2 Sodium > K 0 1 Potassium > Mo 1 7 Moly > B 2 11 Boron > Ba 0 0 Barium > Ca 1925 2027 Calcium > Mg 10 12 Magnesium > Mn 0 0 Mangan?? > P 860 723 Phosphorous > Sb 0 0 Antimony > Zn 954 839 Zinc > > Total Base Number (TBN) > TBN 8.0 7.5 > Soot 0 > Sulfur 17 > Oxidation 34 > Nitration 25 > ZDDP -0.09 > Visc SAE 40 20 > Visc cSt 14 9.2 (both at 100 degrees C) > Ferrous Debris 5 7 > AntiFreeze Neg Neg > Fuel Dilute Neg Neg > Water Neg Neg > > So there you have it. I had just about no idea how to effectively use > all this data. Blake helped me a lot and Scot also showed me the light > on many parts. First, I probably don't have an engine about to blow up. > : ) Stuff to look at: > > - Visc SAE (Viscosity) Viscosity is how thick the oil is. Multi weight > oils like 10W-40 start as a thin 10W when cold and as they heat up they > thicken to 40. The oil I was using tested at 20 at 100 degrees > centigrade (212 F) and was probably caused by shearing in the > transmission portion of the engine. This is too light for my comfort. > Scot said an example of the wrong oil in the wrong compartment was a > 15W-40 changing to 30W in 500 hours. This was from large components but > gives you an idea of what would be bad. So I need to sample the oil at > an earlier interval to help establish an appropriate OCI (Oil Change > Interval). > > - TBN (Total Base Number) This is basically the ability of the additives > to neutralize acid. New was 8.0 used was 7.5. This is real good showing > plenty of base is left. But with no viscosity the oil is used up anyway. > I probably won't pay for the TBN test again as it costs $8 and if I > reduce the OCI (Oil Change Interval) it probably won't get worse. Acids > are created in the engine from things like gasses (blow by), water, fuel > etc. combining chemically. Getting an engine hot helps reduce a few of > these components and that's where I hope the 195 degree stat I just > installed will make a difference. > > - ZDDP I don't know what it really stands for and was asking how you get > less than none. The -0.09 is based on a slope given by the machine that > makes this measurement. I'm told this is outdated technology although I > know most motorcyclists interested in oil analysis think it's very > important. Scot thinks based on only one oil sample this is probably > still ok. > > - Si Silicon. Blake seemed impressed with my low Si number of 4. He > asked what air filter I'm using. For your info I use a NoToil air filter > and NoToil filter maintenance products. Scot told me in the US dirt is > mostly made of Al (Aluminum) and Si (Silicon). But he said you could get > higher Si readings from gasket material, sealants, having an engine > opened and getting shop dust into the engine etc. So my Al of 15 could > be dirt through the air filter or gasket material or maybe I have some > wear from internal engine issues. But nothing to worry about yet. Again > I need more sampling to establish a trend. Maybe the low Si is the > result of maybe 50% of this oil use was in rainy conditions which I'm > guessing lead to cleaner air. Also I cleaned the oil pick up screen at > about 3,200 miles which was the worse one I've ever seen. Mine was about > 80% covered. Maybe I got a lot of old gasket material and sealant out of > the engine. I know I pick up a lot of that on the screen. > > - Anti Freeze I got a negative which is good. Coolant in the oil > indicates a problem. > > - Fuel Dilution Again a negative and not normally an issue with gasoline > engines according to Scot. > > - Water I got a negative which again is good. I rode in some very heavy > rain and also along some flooded roads. I'm not talking an inch of water > on the road for 20 feet. I was on roads in northern Oklahoma with water > rushing across the road a foot deep for 1/4 mile at a time. Did this > probably 10 times. Pretty exciting riding. Looks like none got in the > engine. This also indicates I don't have a water condensation problem. > > - Particle Count The report shows a particle count on the new oil but > not on the used oil. The particle count isn't shown above at that data > was all fat fingered in. Scot said they use an optical parts counter for > this measurement and used oil is normally too dark to get a count. My > new oil had one part that was 100 microns or larger. A micron is one > millionth of a meter. A meter is 39.37008 inches. So that makes a > micron 0.0000393". That means the one part in the new oil that was > counted at greater than 100 microns was at least 0.00393". That's pretty > big and out of new oil. > > - Soot I had zero and you should have none in a properly operating > gasoline engine. > > - Sulfur I had a 17 which Scot thinks is fine. You really need a trend > to see what's happening. Scot said he's only seen high sulfur numbers > once and it's caused by serious neglect. > > - Oxidation My number was 34. Scot again thinks this looks safe. He > suggested an upper limit would be maybe 50-60. Oxidation causes an > increase in viscosity and leads to improper lubrication. I think I got > that right. > > - Nitration My number was 25. Again this needs a trend established to > really get any useful information. Scot thought an upper limit of 75% > was about right. But again, without a trend established this is like > asking how long is a piece of string. > > That's about all I can remember. Most important for me with this data is > it was a real eye opener. I thought I'd been doing oil changes every > 900-1,500 miles. Here's what I figured out last night. I got to > thinking and went to the shop to evaluate all my oil and filter change > intervals. Here's what I've done since I bought the bike at 1,482 miles. > > O=Oil F=Filter > Change Odometer OCI in Miles Comments > New 0 0 > O&F 1,560 1,560 First Recorded O&F Change > O&F 2,990 1,430 > O&F 3,269 279 Cleaned oil pick up screen > O&F 4,497 1,228 > O 5,870 1,373 > O 7,355 1,485 > O 8,335 980 > O&F 9,649 1,314 > O&F 10,317 668 > O 11,753 1,436 > O 13,280 1,527 > O&F 15,013 1,733 Begin Oil Analysis > > Average Oil Change Interval *1,317.4 miles > *This is excluding 1st oil change at 1,560 miles and 3rd change at 3,269 > miles. > > Five of those oil changes were during long trips. Two of them I remember > saying I needed to change the oil as I could tell the shifting to neutral > was getting tougher. > > Remember my bottom line from the beginning of this novel? I said I need > to change my oil more often. So I can either start paying strict > attention to my OCIs or consider maybe changing to a different oil that > might not lower viscosity as quickly. I'm gonna stick with this oil for > now and do another oil analysis in 1,000 miles. I'm also installing a > magnetic low profile drain plug this time. Scot suggested the TBN test > isn't really needed if I'm reducing my OCI as at 1,733 miles it was still > fine. Once I see the results of the next SOS I'll have better > information to decide what action if any to take. > > Also, I have to take this information lightly until I've established a > trend. That means more samples. > > Hope you found this of some interest or use. I'd sure like to hear your > comments and ideas on the list. > > Best, > > Jeff Saline > ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal > Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org > The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota > 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT >

> On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 11:26:23 -0700, "Jeff Saline" > said: > > >thicken to 40. The oil I was using tested at 20 at 100 degrees > >centigrade (212 F) and was probably caused by shearing in the > >transmission portion of the engine. This is too light for my > >comfort. > > This is why I advocate 20W-50 if you're going to run a dino oil. > 20W-50 > is like pancake syrup but it doesn't stay that way for long. > Anything > else shears back too far. > > >- TBN (Total Base Number) This is basically the ability of the > >additives > >to neutralize acid. New was 8.0 used was 7.5. This is real good > >showing plenty of base is left. But with no viscosity the oil is > >used up anyway. > >I probably won't pay for the TBN test again as it costs $8 and if > I > >reduce the OCI (Oil Change Interval) it probably won't get worse. > > > I agree on dropping the TBN test. TBN is an important number for > those > trying to do extended drain intervals. In our case, our thumpers > spew > so much metal and shear the oil down so rapidly that we kill our oil > by > contamination and/or viscosity-loss long before TBN depletion > becomes an > issue. > > >ZDDP I don't know what it really stands for and was asking how you > get > >less than none. The -0.09 is based on a slope given by the machine > >that makes this measurement. I'm told this is outdated technology > >although I know most motorcyclists interested in oil analysis think > >it's very important. Scot thinks based on only one oil sample this > >is probably still ok. > > Yeah, that's a bizarre line on your test results. ZDDP is Zinc > Dialkyldithiophosphate. It's an anti-oxidizing, anti-corrosion, > and > anti-wear additive. Normally people look at the individual Zinc > and > Phosphorus numbers instead. > > >- Si Silicon. Blake seemed impressed with my low Si number of 4. > > I had 9ppm after 3000 miles, and that was after quite a bit of riding > in > the dusty dez. All of the Si numbers I've seen from a KLR have > been > decent. This is a testament to the effectiveness of oiled foam. > > >Oxidation My number was 34. Scot again thinks this looks safe. > He > >suggested an upper limit would be maybe 50-60. Oxidation causes > an > >increase in viscosity and leads to improper lubrication. I think I > >got that right. > > >Nitration My number was 25. Again this needs a trend established > to > >really get any useful information. Scot thought an upper limit of > 75% > >was about right. But again, without a trend established this is > like > >asking how long is a piece of string. > > I think these numbers are high considering your short drain > interval. > High oxidation and nitration can be a sign of elevated oil temps. > High > nitration without high oxidation can point to ring blow-by or an > over-rich mixture (not applicable here). > > After looking over the analyis numbers I've seen here lately, I'm > starting to think that the KLR "needs" a synthetic more than just > about > any other application I've ever seen. Our engines are the 7th > circle of > tribological hell. > > RM > >

> A very comprehensive report Jeff. > Thanks for your efforts. > I couldn't sleep nights if I didn't change my bike oils under every > > thousand miles. > I change my oil when the level drops into the site window or when I > > can't see the slot through the oil in the site window. > Usually that's around 3 tanks of fuel. > I seldom add, I change. > I decided a long time ago to throw caution to the wind on my choice > > of oil and I just run 20-50 all the time in everything I've owned > for > a long time. > I've not lost a motor yet and have gotten very good service out of > all of them. (Outboards, Inboards, Diesel Tractor, Mowers, A few 4WD > > Trucks, 350 Chevy powered GT6 Triumph Spitfire, 350 Chevy powered > 280Z Datsun and maybe forgot some other cars) > If I told you what brand oil I've used for the last three decades > I'd > have to kill Ya. > HHAAAAAAAARRRRRR!!!!!! > Thanks for a very informative report, > Rod > > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Saline > wrote: > > > > KLR Listers, > > > > Two days ago I submitted an oil sample from my 2003 KLR650 for > oil > > analysis. More below but here's the bottom line. > > > > I need to change my oil more often. > > > > Disclaimer: > > For those reading further everything below is mine and any > errors, > > mistakes, improper interpretation etc is mine and only mine. If > you are > > an oil guru I'd be happy to hear your constructive thoughts about > > what > > I'm presenting for your examination. This has been an eye > opening > > experience for me. Again, all the mistakes that follow are by me > > and > > nobody else. > > > > I've got to thank Blake Sobiloff for his help in figuring out a > bit > about > > what the results mean. I know he's taken quite a bit of time to > try to > > explain this to me. I also just spent 33 minutes on the phone > with > , > > the lab analyst that did the testing. His insight to the results > > and his > > best guesses as to what's going on were very helpful. > > > > Here's some background. The bike is a 2003 KLR650 with 15,013 > miles on > > it. Oil is Valvoline 10W-40, API rating SL. This oil change > interval > > (OCI) was 1,733 miles and the filter is by Emgo and has 4,696 > miles > on > > it. I was not using a magnetic drain plug. I had new oil sampled > > as > > well as the used oil. The new oil only gives a thumbprint of the > > used > > oil. The only way to really figure out what is happening with the > > oil > > and engine is to establish a trend by further oil sampling. > Remember > > that! The only way to really figure out what is happening with > the > oil > > and engine is to establish a trend by further oil sampling. > > > > Here is the SOS (Schedule Oil Sampling) Fluids Analysis. Below > I'll > > provide what I hope is correct and useful. > > > > Element | Virgin | This OCI (Oil Change Interval) > > Cu 0 9 Copper > > Fe 1 14 Iron > > Cr 0 0 Chrome > > Ni 0 0 Nickel > > Ti 0 0 Titan > > V 0 0 Vanad > > Ag 0 0 Silver > > Pb 0 2 Lead > > Sn 1 0 Tin > > Al 0 15 Aluminum > > Si 1 4 Silicon > > Na 5 2 Sodium > > K 0 1 Potassium > > Mo 1 7 Moly > > B 2 11 Boron > > Ba 0 0 Barium > > Ca 1925 2027 Calcium > > Mg 10 12 Magnesium > > Mn 0 0 Mangan?? > > P 860 723 Phosphorous > > Sb 0 0 Antimony > > Zn 954 839 Zinc > > > > Total Base Number (TBN) > > TBN 8.0 7.5 > > Soot 0 > > Sulfur 17 > > Oxidation 34 > > Nitration 25 > > ZDDP -0.09 > > Visc SAE 40 20 > > Visc cSt 14 9.2 (both at 100 degrees C) > > Ferrous Debris 5 7 > > AntiFreeze Neg Neg > > Fuel Dilute Neg Neg > > Water Neg Neg > > > > So there you have it. I had just about no idea how to effectively > > use > > all this data. Blake helped me a lot and Scot also showed me the > > light > > on many parts. First, I probably don't have an engine about to > blow up. > > : ) Stuff to look at: > > > > - Visc SAE (Viscosity) Viscosity is how thick the oil is. Multi > > weight > > oils like 10W-40 start as a thin 10W when cold and as they heat up > > they > > thicken to 40. The oil I was using tested at 20 at 100 degrees > > centigrade (212 F) and was probably caused by shearing in the > > transmission portion of the engine. This is too light for my > comfort. > > Scot said an example of the wrong oil in the wrong compartment was > a > > 15W-40 changing to 30W in 500 hours. This was from large > components but > > gives you an idea of what would be bad. So I need to sample the > oil at > > an earlier interval to help establish an appropriate OCI (Oil > Change > > Interval). > > > > - TBN (Total Base Number) This is basically the ability of the > additives > > to neutralize acid. New was 8.0 used was 7.5. This is real good > > showing > > plenty of base is left. But with no viscosity the oil is used up > > anyway. > > I probably won't pay for the TBN test again as it costs $8 and if > I > > reduce the OCI (Oil Change Interval) it probably won't get worse. > > Acids > > are created in the engine from things like gasses (blow by), > water, > fuel > > etc. combining chemically. Getting an engine hot helps reduce a > few of > > these components and that's where I hope the 195 degree stat I > just > > installed will make a difference. > > > > - ZDDP I don't know what it really stands for and was asking how > you get > > less than none. The -0.09 is based on a slope given by the > machine > that > > makes this measurement. I'm told this is outdated technology > although I > > know most motorcyclists interested in oil analysis think it's > very > > important. Scot thinks based on only one oil sample this is > probably > > still ok. > > > > - Si Silicon. Blake seemed impressed with my low Si number of 4. > > He > > asked what air filter I'm using. For your info I use a NoToil air > > filter > > and NoToil filter maintenance products. Scot told me in the US > dirt is > > mostly made of Al (Aluminum) and Si (Silicon). But he said you > could get > > higher Si readings from gasket material, sealants, having an > engine > > opened and getting shop dust into the engine etc. So my Al of 15 > > could > > be dirt through the air filter or gasket material or maybe I have > > some > > wear from internal engine issues. But nothing to worry about yet. > > Again > > I need more sampling to establish a trend. Maybe the low Si is > the > > result of maybe 50% of this oil use was in rainy conditions which > > I'm > > guessing lead to cleaner air. Also I cleaned the oil pick up > screen at > > about 3,200 miles which was the worse one I've ever seen. Mine was > > about > > 80% covered. Maybe I got a lot of old gasket material and sealant > > out of > > the engine. I know I pick up a lot of that on the screen. > > > > - Anti Freeze I got a negative which is good. Coolant in the > oil > > indicates a problem. > > > > - Fuel Dilution Again a negative and not normally an issue with > gasoline > > engines according to Scot. > > > > - Water I got a negative which again is good. I rode in some > very > heavy > > rain and also along some flooded roads. I'm not talking an inch > of > water > > on the road for 20 feet. I was on roads in northern Oklahoma with > > water > > rushing across the road a foot deep for 1/4 mile at a time. Did > this > > probably 10 times. Pretty exciting riding. Looks like none got > in > the > > engine. This also indicates I don't have a water condensation > problem. > > > > - Particle Count The report shows a particle count on the new oil > > but > > not on the used oil. The particle count isn't shown above at that > > data > > was all fat fingered in. Scot said they use an optical parts > counter for > > this measurement and used oil is normally too dark to get a count. > > My > > new oil had one part that was 100 microns or larger. A micron is > > one > > millionth of a meter. A meter is 39.37008 inches. So that makes > a > > micron 0.0000393". That means the one part in the new oil that > was > > counted at greater than 100 microns was at least 0.00393". That's > > pretty > > big and out of new oil. > > > > - Soot I had zero and you should have none in a properly > operating > > gasoline engine. > > > > - Sulfur I had a 17 which Scot thinks is fine. You really need a > > trend > > to see what's happening. Scot said he's only seen high sulfur > numbers > > once and it's caused by serious neglect. > > > > - Oxidation My number was 34. Scot again thinks this looks safe. > > He > > suggested an upper limit would be maybe 50-60. Oxidation causes > an > > increase in viscosity and leads to improper lubrication. I think > I > got > > that right. > > > > - Nitration My number was 25. Again this needs a trend > established to > > really get any useful information. Scot thought an upper limit of > > 75% > > was about right. But again, without a trend established this is > like > > asking how long is a piece of string. > > > > That's about all I can remember. Most important for me with this > > data is > > it was a real eye opener. I thought I'd been doing oil changes > every > > 900-1,500 miles. Here's what I figured out last night. I got to > > thinking and went to the shop to evaluate all my oil and filter > change > > intervals. Here's what I've done since I bought the bike at 1,482 > > miles. > > > > O=Oil F=Filter > > Change Odometer OCI in Miles Comments > > New 0 0 > > O&F 1,560 1,560 First Recorded O&F Change > > O&F 2,990 1,430 > > O&F 3,269 279 Cleaned oil pick up > screen > > O&F 4,497 1,228 > > O 5,870 1,373 > > O 7,355 1,485 > > O 8,335 980 > > O&F 9,649 1,314 > > O&F 10,317 668 > > O 11,753 1,436 > > O 13,280 1,527 > > O&F 15,013 1,733 Begin Oil Analysis > > > > Average Oil Change Interval *1,317.4 miles > > *This is excluding 1st oil change at 1,560 miles and 3rd change at > > 3,269 > > miles. > > > > Five of those oil changes were during long trips. Two of them I > remember > > saying I needed to change the oil as I could tell the shifting to > > neutral > > was getting tougher. > > > > Remember my bottom line from the beginning of this novel? I said > I > need > > to change my oil more often. So I can either start paying strict > > attention to my OCIs or consider maybe changing to a different oil > > that > > might not lower viscosity as quickly. I'm gonna stick with this > oil for > > now and do another oil analysis in 1,000 miles. I'm also > installing a > > magnetic low profile drain plug this time. Scot suggested the TBN > > test > > isn't really needed if I'm reducing my OCI as at 1,733 miles it > was > still > > fine. Once I see the results of the next SOS I'll have better > > information to decide what action if any to take. > > > > Also, I have to take this information lightly until I've > established a > > trend. That means more samples. > > > > Hope you found this of some interest or use. I'd sure like to > hear > your > > comments and ideas on the list. > > > > Best, > > > > Jeff Saline > > ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal > > Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org > > The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota > > 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT > > > > > > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

> Rod, > > Thanks for sharing your thoughts about this. I was > thinking that on a > few trips I've taken if I changed the oil every 3rd > tank of fuel I'd be > changing it every other day or so. On a few days it > would have been > changed twice in one day. I was told a long time > ago that you can't tell > the condition of oil from it's color. But I sure > understand that if you > can't see the slot in the sight glass it's got to > have picked up some > contaminants. It's kind of like a mud puddle. Ya > can't tell how deep it > is from the top. : ) > > Thanks again and enjoy your Walmart brand recycled > 20W-50 oil. : ) > > Jeff > > Jeff Saline > ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal > Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org > The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota > 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT > > On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 19:44:04 -0000 "Rodney Copeland" > > writes: > > A very comprehensive report Jeff. > > Thanks for your efforts. > > I couldn't sleep nights if I didn't change my bike > oils under every > > > > thousand miles. > > I change my oil when the level drops into the site > window or when I > > > > can't see the slot through the oil in the site > window. > > Usually that's around 3 tanks of fuel. > > I seldom add, I change. > > I decided a long time ago to throw caution to the > wind on my choice > > > > of oil and I just run 20-50 all the time in > everything I've owned > > for > > a long time. > > I've not lost a motor yet and have gotten very > good service out of > > all of them. (Outboards, Inboards, Diesel Tractor, > Mowers, A few 4WD > > > > Trucks, 350 Chevy powered GT6 Triumph Spitfire, > 350 Chevy powered > > 280Z Datsun and maybe forgot some other cars) > > If I told you what brand oil I've used for the > last three decades > > I'd > > have to kill Ya. > > HHAAAAAAAARRRRRR!!!!!! > > Thanks for a very informative report, > > Rod > > > > > > > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Saline > > > wrote: > > > > > > KLR Listers, > > > > > > Two days ago I submitted an oil sample from my > 2003 KLR650 for > > oil > > > analysis. More below but here's the bottom > line. > > > > > > I need to change my oil more often. > > > > > > Disclaimer: > > > For those reading further everything below is > mine and any > > errors, > > > mistakes, improper interpretation etc is mine > and only mine. If > > you are > > > an oil guru I'd be happy to hear your > constructive thoughts about > > > > what > > > I'm presenting for your examination. This has > been an eye > > opening > > > experience for me. Again, all the mistakes that > follow are by me > > > > and > > > nobody else. > > > > > > I've got to thank Blake Sobiloff for his help in > figuring out a > > bit > > about > > > what the results mean. I know he's taken quite > a bit of time to > > try to > > > explain this to me. I also just spent 33 > minutes on the phone > > with > > , > > > the lab analyst that did the testing. His > insight to the results > > > > and his > > > best guesses as to what's going on were very > helpful. > > > > > > Here's some background. The bike is a 2003 > KLR650 with 15,013 > > miles on > > > it. Oil is Valvoline 10W-40, API rating SL. > This oil change > > interval > > > (OCI) was 1,733 miles and the filter is by Emgo > and has 4,696 > > miles > > on > > > it. I was not using a magnetic drain plug. I > had new oil sampled > > > > as > > > well as the used oil. The new oil only gives a > thumbprint of the > > > > used > > > oil. The only way to really figure out what is > happening with the > > > > oil > > > and engine is to establish a trend by further > oil sampling. > > Remember > > > that! The only way to really figure out what is > happening with > > the > > oil > > > and engine is to establish a trend by further > oil sampling. > > > > > > Here is the SOS (Schedule Oil Sampling) Fluids > Analysis. Below > > I'll > > > provide what I hope is correct and useful. > > > > > > Element | Virgin | This OCI (Oil Change > Interval) > > > Cu 0 9 Copper > > > Fe 1 14 Iron > > > Cr 0 0 Chrome > > > Ni 0 0 Nickel > > > Ti 0 0 Titan > > > V 0 0 Vanad > > > Ag 0 0 Silver > > > Pb 0 2 Lead > > > Sn 1 0 Tin > > > Al 0 15 Aluminum > > > Si 1 4 Silicon > > > Na 5 2 Sodium > > > K 0 1 Potassium > > > Mo 1 7 Moly > > > B 2 11 Boron > > > Ba 0 0 Barium > > > Ca 1925 2027 Calcium > > > Mg 10 12 Magnesium > > > Mn 0 0 Mangan?? > > > P 860 723 Phosphorous > > > Sb 0 0 Antimony > > > Zn 954 839 Zinc > > > > > > Total Base Number (TBN) > > > TBN 8.0 7.5 > > > Soot 0 > > > Sulfur 17 > > > Oxidation 34 > > > Nitration 25 > > > ZDDP -0.09 > > > Visc SAE 40 20 > > > Visc cSt 14 9.2 (both at 100 degrees > C) > > > Ferrous Debris 5 7 > > > AntiFreeze Neg Neg > > > Fuel Dilute Neg Neg > > > Water Neg Neg > > > > > > So there you have it. I had just about no idea > how

> Perhaps this has already been mentioned and I miised > it, but you can find out everything you ever wanted to > know about lubes and oil analysis on a forum called > BobIsTheOilGuy. > > I sample engine oil in my diesel Jetta. There are a > lot of labs doing this for the trucking and heavy > equipment industry-- Blackstone, AVLubes, Dingo, etc. > You can bring down your cost per sample by buying a > "pack" of containers. > > I last purchased a 10-pack called "Maintenance Guy > Fleet Premium" for $120 from www.dingo.com . This is > their program that includes TBN. Their less > comprehensive program runs about $80 for 10. The > report you get shows your previous samples as well, so > you can easily compare parameters across time giving > you an idea of engine wear as well as the impact of > longer/shorter drain intervals. > > I guess what I'm unclear about is given the small > amount of oil a KLR holds, and the cost of oil, > especially a non-synthetic blend, why bother with oil > analysis? It barely makes sense for my Jetta, > although I have been able to run 15,000 miles between > changes with no problem, and that has saved me the > cost of several oil changes. It makes more sense for > semis running 12 gallons of Rotella Synthetic. They > just keep sampling periodically until the lab results > say it's time for new oil. > > Seems in a bike the relative cost doesn't make sense. > Am I missing something? > > John > ABC #5556

> Perhaps this has already been mentioned and I miised > it, but you can find out everything you ever wanted to > know about lubes and oil analysis on a forum called > BobIsTheOilGuy. > > I sample engine oil in my diesel Jetta. There are a > lot of labs doing this for the trucking and heavy > equipment industry-- Blackstone, AVLubes, Dingo, etc. > You can bring down your cost per sample by buying a > "pack" of containers. > > I last purchased a 10-pack called "Maintenance Guy > Fleet Premium" for $120 from www.dingo.com . This is > their program that includes TBN. Their less > comprehensive program runs about $80 for 10. The > report you get shows your previous samples as well, so > you can easily compare parameters across time giving > you an idea of engine wear as well as the impact of > longer/shorter drain intervals. > > I guess what I'm unclear about is given the small > amount of oil a KLR holds, and the cost of oil, > especially a non-synthetic blend, why bother with oil > analysis? It barely makes sense for my Jetta, > although I have been able to run 15,000 miles between > changes with no problem, and that has saved me the > cost of several oil changes. It makes more sense for > semis running 12 gallons of Rotella Synthetic. They > just keep sampling periodically until the lab results > say it's time for new oil. > > Seems in a bike the relative cost doesn't make sense. > Am I missing something? > > John > ABC #5556

> Jeff...I for one certainly appreciate all the work, effort and $$$ > you and others have put into this oil thread. It's Lister's like you > who make this list so valuable to the rest of us list lurkers. I may > not put your information into practice but at least I can now make > an informed decision. > Thank you.... > List lurker who likes to farkel..... > WVDoran > Scottsdale, AZ

> I guess what I'm unclear about is given the small > amount of oil a KLR holds, and the cost of oil, > especially a non-synthetic blend, why bother with oil > analysis?