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nklr, women in motorcycling
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:36 am
by Don Van Dyke
Dammit. Does this classic example of sexism anger anyone else? It should.
One of several reasons that jumps to mind is that what motorcyclists and
motorcycling needs more than anything is more motorcyclists. One of the
surest ways to have more motorcyclists is to attract the other half of
humanity, women, into this almost "exclusively" male dominated
activity. Kathi points out one way that women are excluded, by the
prejudice of some motorcycle salesMEN.
Sales people should be ambassadors for motorcycling and behave in a way
that attracts ALL people to motorcycling.
In my opinion, most of those who post on this list serve do well, but we
should keep in mind that we on this list also represent motorcycling every
time we post.
So much for not repelling women...now how do we attract women to motorcycling?
Another passion of mine, whitewater kayaking and canoeing, was just as
exclusively male dominated when I took up the sport 25+ years ago. Now it
is more balanced. So why has that sport managed to attract women, while
motorcycling has not?
At 09:05 PM 1/12/2005 -0800, Kathi Clark wrote:
>When we were looking at a bike shop at KTMs, I was asking a sales guy a
>bunch of questions and sat on some bikes. He told me I should get the
>silver KTM because it matched my jacket (I didn't even have a response for
>that one). As soon as my boyfriend walked over, he started addressing him
>and explained that we might actually want a smaller bike to ride
>2-up. Rather than punching the stupid sales guy, I sweetly asked my BF if
>he was really intending to ride b*tch. We've been laughing about that one
>ever since, although the poor sales guy never got it.
Don Van Dyke
Sacramento, California
Moto@...
www.intellection.org
nklr, women in motorcycling
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:33 am
by Bogdan Swider
>
> Dammit. Does this classic example of sexism anger anyone else? It should.
I had a boss ( male ) who was proud of his thick grey hair. He bought a
violet Cadillac because he believed that color went well with his coiffure.
The salesman may have used that tactic on Kathi because it worked for him in
the past. I liked her reaction; it gave her a good laugh. Beats throwing
clich s around that may of my not apply.
Bogdan
nklr, women in motorcycling
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:40 pm
by CA Stu
"I'm angry because you treated a woman like a woman!"
I call BS.
Seems like she took it in stride, so why should anyone else give a
hoot?
Also Don, sales is a game of numbers. The odds were 99.9% that she
was just keeping her boyfriend comapny while he was shopping for a
bike.
If the salesman wasted his day trying to sell bikes to women, the
odds are he'd get a fat lip from some jealous boyfriend and probably
not sell any bikes.
I personally am thankful for the differences between the sexes, and
appreciate women as "the fairer sex".
A bit of wisdom from Mumford the Elder: "There are only two kinds of
men that claim to understand women: Idiots and liars."
As far as women in motorcycling, good for them.
I sometimes need to borrow hair care products after a long day in a
helmet.
Thanks
CA Stu A14
A13
-----Original Message-----
Dammit. Does this classic example of sexism anger anyone else? It
should.
SNIP
At 09:05 PM 1/12/2005 -0800, Kathi Clark wrote:
>When we were looking at a bike shop at KTMs, I was asking a sales
guy a
>bunch of questions and sat on some bikes. He told me I should get
the
>silver KTM because it matched my jacket (I didn't even have a
response for
>that one). As soon as my boyfriend walked over, he started
addressing him
>and explained that we might actually want a smaller bike to ride
>2-up. Rather than punching the stupid sales guy, I sweetly asked my
BF if
>he was really intending to ride b*tch. We've been laughing about
that one
>ever since, although the poor sales guy never got it.
nklr, women in motorcycling
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:12 pm
by Sandy
Agreeing with Stu, she took it in stride. One thing to consider is
that his behavior probably would have been the same if he'd been
selling some other mainly male purchased object, such as tools. This
guy was only trying to help, and assuming the type of help he should
offer based on his experience. For the most part, women don't buy
motorcycles anywhere near as much as men do.
It is, however, pretty darned aggravating to have people assume stuff
about you based on your sex, hair color, skin color, etc.....
I was shopping for a new Chevy truck with my husband. While my
husband had gone one way and I another, a salesman approached me and
asked if he could help. I told him that I was looking for a 2500HD
that didn't say DuraMax on the side. Granted, I could have said that
in a much more intelligent fashion
but I guess he assumed that
because I was female that I wouldn't have the foggiest idea about
those motor thingies. He said to me, "Well honey, that means
diesel." Sigh..........
I bought a new Chevy 2500HD that day, just not from him. I seriously
doubt that he ever knew why he lost a sale.
If you want to attract women to motorcycling, start 'em young. Don't
worry though, I see more women riding every day.
Sandy / Texas
--- In
DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "CA Stu" wrote:
>
> "I'm angry because you treated a woman like a woman!"
> I call BS.
> Seems like she took it in stride, so why should anyone else give a
> hoot?
>
> Also Don, sales is a game of numbers. The odds were 99.9% that she
> was just keeping her boyfriend comapny while he was shopping for a
> bike.
> If the salesman wasted his day trying to sell bikes to women, the
> odds are he'd get a fat lip from some jealous boyfriend and
probably
> not sell any bikes.
>
> I personally am thankful for the differences between the sexes, and
> appreciate women as "the fairer sex".
>
> A bit of wisdom from Mumford the Elder: "There are only two kinds
of
> men that claim to understand women: Idiots and liars."
>
>
> As far as women in motorcycling, good for them.
> I sometimes need to borrow hair care products after a long day in a
> helmet.
>
> Thanks
> CA Stu A14
> A13
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Dammit. Does this classic example of sexism anger anyone else? It
> should.
>
> SNIP
>
> At 09:05 PM 1/12/2005 -0800, Kathi Clark wrote:
>
> >When we were looking at a bike shop at KTMs, I was asking a sales
> guy a
> >bunch of questions and sat on some bikes. He told me I should get
> the
> >silver KTM because it matched my jacket (I didn't even have a
> response for
> >that one). As soon as my boyfriend walked over, he started
> addressing him
> >and explained that we might actually want a smaller bike to ride
> >2-up. Rather than punching the stupid sales guy, I sweetly asked
my
> BF if
> >he was really intending to ride b*tch. We've been laughing about
> that one
> >ever since, although the poor sales guy never got it.
nklr, women in motorcycling
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:55 pm
by Eric L. Green
> So much for not repelling women...now how do we attract women to
> motorcycling?
By encouraging them to enter high-paying professions, and paying them
equal pay when they do so.
Look: the reason women don't own motorcycles is the same reason I didn't
own a motorcycle for over 10 years after I sold mine at the end of my
college years -- $$$. A motorcycle is a luxury item in the United States,
rather than something routinely used for daily transportation. Women on
average earn 3/4ths of what men earn. Thus you'd expect fewer women to own
motorcycles, regardless of what ignorant jerks in motorcycle stores act
like. If I was making 3/4ths of what I currently make, I know that I darn
well wouldn't own a motorcycle.
> Another passion of mine, whitewater kayaking and canoeing, was just as
> exclusively male dominated when I took up the sport 25+ years ago. Now it
> is more balanced. So why has that sport managed to attract women, while
> motorcycling has not?
Much of that equipment is rentable?
-E
nklr, women in motorcycling
Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:17 am
by Scott Critchfield
Good point Eric...
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric L. Green [mailto:ericnospam@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 9:55 PM
To: Don Van Dyke
Cc: Kathi Clark;
dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] NKLR, Women in Motorcycling
> So much for not repelling women...now how do we attract women to
> motorcycling?
By encouraging them to enter high-paying professions, and paying them
equal pay when they do so.
Look: the reason women don't own motorcycles is the same reason I didn't
own a motorcycle for over 10 years after I sold mine at the end of my
college years -- $$$. A motorcycle is a luxury item in the United States,
rather than something routinely used for daily transportation. Women on
average earn 3/4ths of what men earn. Thus you'd expect fewer women to own
motorcycles, regardless of what ignorant jerks in motorcycle stores act
like. If I was making 3/4ths of what I currently make, I know that I darn
well wouldn't own a motorcycle.
> Another passion of mine, whitewater kayaking and canoeing, was just as
> exclusively male dominated when I took up the sport 25+ years ago. Now it
> is more balanced. So why has that sport managed to attract women, while
> motorcycling has not?
Much of that equipment is rentable?
-E
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nklr, women in motorcycling
Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:01 am
by Barnaby Robson
You've obviously never met a Bull Dyke .. one of those fair ladies
could rip your balls off and squish 'em in their hands quicker than
you could say "make my dinner".
> I personally am thankful for the differences between the sexes, and
> appreciate women as "the fairer sex".
>
nklr, women in motorcycling
Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 7:21 am
by kdxkawboy@aol.com
In a message dated 2005-01-13 10:17:50 PM Pacific Standard Time,
scott.critchfield@... writes:
>
> By encouraging them to enter high-paying professions, and paying them
> equal pay when they do so.
>
> Look: the reason women don't own motorcycles is the same reason I didn't
> own a motorcycle for over 10 years after I sold mine at the end of my
> college years -- $$$. A motorcycle is a luxury item in the United States,
> rather than something routinely used for daily transportation. Women on
> average earn 3/4ths of what men earn. Thus you'd expect fewer women to own
> motorcycles, regardless of what ignorant jerks in motorcycle stores act
> like. If I was making 3/4ths of what I currently make, I know that I darn
> well wouldn't own a motorcycle.
>
>
Like, in Kawasaki hiring Jessica Zelusky to race in the AMA Supersport class:
http://www.cyclenews.com/ShowStory.asp?HeadlineID=7033 ? Like one of my
coworkers, Karen Stoffer, winning an NHRA National in the motorcycle pro-stock
class and suddenly finding the sponsorship to compete the entire series?
Following the recent surveys done by MCN on bike owners it has become obvious
that women now make up a significant portion of the motorcycle marketplace, a
trend I am thankful for. Take a look in any dirt bike apparel catalog and
there is a decent choice of clothing and gear for the women to buy, such as
anatomically correct chest protectors - Acerbis lead this trend being the first to
make a chest protector with room on top where women need it. More and more
women are discovering that motorcycles aren't just for the boys.
Pat
G'ville, Nv
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nklr, women in motorcycling
Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 7:53 am
by Don Van Dyke
Well, that is true, the price of entry in cheaper, and there is some
availability of rental, although not as much as with skiing. You can get a
top of the line whitewater kayak for around $1,000, and the rest of your
gear (paddle, lifejacket, etc.) for under $500. A top of the line
light-weight laminate sea kayak costs around $3,000.
Way back when kayaking was exclusively a male dominated activity and women
where just beginning to get involved, some men seemed to resent women
taking up "their" sport, although I am sure they would have denied it if
you asked them. I wonder if there is some of that in motorcycling.
At 09:55 PM 1/13/2005 -0800, Eric L. Green wrote:
>By encouraging them to enter high-paying professions, and paying them
>equal pay when they do so.
>
> >So why has that sport managed to attract women, while
> > motorcycling has not?
>
>Much of that equipment is rentable?
>
>-E
Don Van Dyke
Sacramento, California
Moto@...
www.intellection.org
nklr, women in motorcycling
Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 1:10 pm
by Arden Kysely
I don't buy the money argument. There are plenty of women out there
who are 'horse poor' from pursuing an expensive activity (imagine if
you had to feed and board your KLR whether you rode it or not), but
they do it because they love it. I think one thing that keeps women
out of motorcycling is men and their 'manly' attitudes--salesmen who
ignore women, riders who consider motorcycling a men-only activity (a
way to get away from the wife instead of spend time with her), and
those who think that the 'fairer sex' belong home with the kids while
Dad does the macho thing on his two-wheeler. I think there's a lot of
non-overt discouragement going on that no one will cop to because
they like the do their thing with the boys.
My wife knows that riding is fun and I've tried to get her to learn
to ride, but she has plenty of other things she does and she's not
interested. A friend of mine's wife loves to putt around on her
XR100, so they do some fireroads together.
Back to the money thing--I work with a woman who makes more than I do
and recently bought a motorcycle. Did she do it because she could
suddenly afford a bike? Hardly. She did it because she saw that
motorcycling is fun, and because her husband encouraged her to learn
to ride by herself so they could take rides together. I'd like to see
more women on motorcycles. That would mean fewer cars on the road
that are trying to kill me.
For another take on women in motorcycling, check out the Feb issue of
Dual-Sport News.
Flame on!!
__Arden
--- In
DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Eric L. Green"
wrote:
> > So much for not repelling women...now how do we attract women to
> > motorcycling?
>
> By encouraging them to enter high-paying professions, and paying
them
> equal pay when they do so.
>
> Look: the reason women don't own motorcycles is the same reason I
didn't
> own a motorcycle for over 10 years after I sold mine at the end of
my
> college years -- $$$. A motorcycle is a luxury item in the United
States,
> rather than something routinely used for daily transportation.
Women on
> average earn 3/4ths of what men earn. Thus you'd expect fewer women
to own
> motorcycles, regardless of what ignorant jerks in motorcycle stores
act
> like. If I was making 3/4ths of what I currently make, I know that
I darn
> well wouldn't own a motorcycle.
> -E