Wilsons Sandbox

There is a vulernability with many Kryptonite locks that allows them to be opened with the end of a BIC pen. Due to all the hand waving and screaming about getting ripped off going on on the bicycle lists and boards, nobody has posted anything remotely resembling an analysis of the problem, so I don't know what locks are vulnerable. Basically all I've heard is that many of the Kryptonite locks with a circular key can be opened with a BIC pen. I've tried this on all the shitty bikes locked up downstairs with shitty u-locks without success, so I think that it's a recent design/manufacturing defect at the large unnamed Taiwanese company that makes every u-lock known to man. Until the real cause of this comes out, make sure to double lock everything you have, hopefully using something that doesn't have a tubular tumbler. Here's where the hysteria started: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=66128&page=1&pp=25 -- Z DC A5X A12X

> Until the real cause of this comes out, make sure to double lock > everything you have, hopefully using something that doesn't have a > tubular tumbler.

........Or spend the extra few dollars for an Abus. As a former theft victim, it's money well spent. I believe the 13mm top of the line chain and lock are tougher than anything Kryptonite makes. Thanx to Karl(KJ, lister) in New York who hipped me to these a couple years ago. Steve The Mule A17

>>Until the real cause of this comes out, make sure to double lock >>everything you have, hopefully using something that doesn't have a >>tubular tumbler. > > > ........Or spend the extra few dollars for an Abus. As a former theft > victim, it's money well spent. I believe the 13mm top of the line chain and > lock are tougher than anything Kryptonite makes. Thanx to Karl(KJ, lister) > in New York who hipped me to these a couple years ago.

And if you buy the Abus, make sure you actually use it. A lock that's easy to use but provides less security (say a decent disc lock) may in practice provide more protection than a top-of-the-line Abus that's so big and heavy that you leave it in the trunk when your bike is parked in a "safe" spot. -Lujo A13 (drug-delivery bike for one day) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004, Zachariah Mully wrote:

> nobody has posted anything remotely resembling an analysis of > the problem, so I don't know what locks are vulnerable.

I have two EV disc's and I used the bic to open each of them in about 20 seconds. I was told by a friend at work. He has the larger U lock and his would also open very easily. I think this is a pretty wide spread problem with the recent lock models. -- Doug Herr doug@...

Doug Herr wrote:

> > I have two EV disc's and I used the bic to open each of them in > about 20 seconds. I was told by a friend at work. He has the > larger U lock and his would also open very easily. > > I think this is a pretty wide spread problem with the recent lock > models.

How old are the locks that you picked with this technique? < 1 year? Z DC A5X A12X

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004, Zachariah Mully wrote:

> Doug Herr wrote: >> >> I have two EV disc's and I used the bic to open each of them in >> about 20 seconds. I was told by a friend at work. He has the >> larger U lock and his would also open very easily. >> >> I think this is a pretty wide spread problem with the recent lock >> models. > > How old are the locks that you picked with this technique? < 1 year?

Bought them both 4/2003. -- Doug Herr doug@...

And here is a link showing a Kryptonite U-lock being opened with a Bic pen. http://www.engadget.com/entry/7796925370303347/ Greg Roberts

----- Original Message ----- From: "Zachariah Mully" > > There is a vulernability with many Kryptonite locks that allows them to > be opened with the end of a BIC pen. Due to all the hand waving and > screaming about getting ripped off going on on the bicycle lists and > boards, nobody has posted anything remotely resembling an analysis of > the problem, so I don't know what locks are vulnerable. > > Basically all I've heard is that many of the Kryptonite locks with a > circular key can be opened with a BIC pen. I've tried this on all the > shitty bikes locked up downstairs with shitty u-locks without success, > so I think that it's a recent design/manufacturing defect at the large > unnamed Taiwanese company that makes every u-lock known to man. > > Until the real cause of this comes out, make sure to double lock > everything you have, hopefully using something that doesn't have a > tubular tumbler. > > Here's where the hysteria started: > http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=66128&page=1&pp=25 > > > -- > Z > DC > A5X > A12X > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]

Screw the locks. If somebody wants it, they will take it. This goes for the bike/bags/helmet etc. Leaving the keys in is a bit too inviting, but screw it, if they want it, all the cables/locks etc in the world will not do you any good. Best advice, ride hard and carry good insurance,,,, --- Zachariah Mully wrote:

> > There is a vulernability with many Kryptonite locks > that allows them to > be opened with the end of a BIC pen. Due to all the > hand waving and > screaming about getting ripped off going on on the > bicycle lists and > boards, nobody has posted anything remotely > resembling an analysis of > the problem, so I don't know what locks are > vulnerable. > > Basically all I've heard is that many of the > Kryptonite locks with a > circular key can be opened with a BIC pen. I've > tried this on all the > shitty bikes locked up downstairs with shitty > u-locks without success, > so I think that it's a recent design/manufacturing > defect at the large > unnamed Taiwanese company that makes every u-lock > known to man. > > Until the real cause of this comes out, make sure to > double lock > everything you have, hopefully using something that > doesn't have a > tubular tumbler. > > Here's where the hysteria started: >

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=66128&page=1&pp=25

> > > -- > Z > DC > A5X > A12X > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at > www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ courtesy of Chris > Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >

_______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com

> Screw the locks. If somebody wants it, they will take > it. This goes for the bike/bags/helmet etc. Leaving > the keys in is a bit too inviting, but screw it, if > they want it, all the cables/locks etc in the world > will not do you any good. Best advice, ride hard and > carry good insurance,,,,

Pittsburgh cops (who, like other cops, probably have a good deal of experience with this sort of thing) seem to think otherwise. It's certainly true that no lock will prevent an extremely determined thief, but most thieves steal only that which is easily stolen, i.e., bikes that are secured only by an ignition lock. Any lock that requires more than a screwdriver to force open will provide far greater protection than just the ignition lock. -Lujo [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004, Zachariah Mully wrote:

> There is a vulernability with many Kryptonite locks that allows them to > be opened with the end of a BIC pen.

I was just forwarded this e-mail from Kryptonite. The upshot is that they just want us to buy more of their locks and they don't seem to think they need to do anything about these that we have which can be opened quickly with a pen. I plan to never buy their products again. From: "Grumble" Date: September 16, 2004 8:25:19 AM PDT Subject: Re: flaw in kryptonite locks? We understand there are concerns regarding tubular cylinders used in some Kryptonite locks. The tubular cylinder, a standard industry-wide design, has been successfully used for more than 30 years in our products and other security applications without significant issues. The current Kryptonite locks based on a tubular cylinder design continue to present an effective deterrent to theft. As part of our continuing commitment to produce performance and improved security, Kryptonite has been developing a disc-style cylinder for some years. In 2000, Kryptonite introduced the disc-style cylinder in its premier line of products, the New York series. In 2002, Kryptonite began development of a new disc cylinder system for both its Evolution and KryptoLok product lines, which currently use the tubular cylinder design. These products are scheduled to be introduced in the next few weeks. We are accelerating the delivery of the new disc cylinder locks and we will communicate directly with our distributors, dealers and consumers within the coming days. The world just got tougher and so did our locks. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sandy Salvatore Customer Service Rep. Kryptonite -- Doug Herr doug@...