Page 1 of 2
new bike nightmare?
Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:34 pm
by KLR Rider - Scott Adams
Tom - welcome to the group and I won't touch the mechanical issues but I
will touch a general legal matter. Note that I haven't reviewed your case
and don't know ALL the facts and am not licensed in your state so I am not
giving you specific legal advice. How's that for CYA:
Dealers will yell and scream about "Voiding a Warranty by ........." Guess
what - it is hogwash. Federal law, the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act in
specific, covers this issue. The only thing related to this that they are
allowed to "Disclaim" and not cover by a warranty is any damage DONE BY YOU
in doing the service yourself. Since you checking and/or changing your own
oil didn't DO any damage - they are screwed no matter how many times they
try and go down that road. They know it, but they also know that you
probably don't.
The second thing, however, is even more important. DO NOT go along with
their little plan. That is fraud and THAT can make it so they have no
obligations to you whatsoever and even make you criminally guilty.
Good luck and let us know.
-Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "tdenman"
To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:17 PM
Subject: [DSN_klr650] New bike nightmare?
> Hi Group,
> I'm a new member with a new 2005 KLR650. Being the conservative
> person I am, I changed my oil today at 300 miles. Guess what - I
> removed the oil filter cover and NO OIL FILTER! There was no filter
> or the tube that pentrates the oil filter - just an empty cavity
> filled with oil!
>
> Within seconds I was on my way to the dealer (in my car) to demand a
> new bike or my money back. Their immediate response (Motorsport,
> Albuquerque, NM) was that I had voided the warranty by doing the 500
> mile service myself (what does this have to do with anything?).
> After I read them the riot act they backed off slightly on that
> attitude. They agreed to have the bike towed to their facility
> to "evaluate the problem". Also, they encouraged me to support a
> story that the defect was found when I had brought the bike in for
> the first service. I'm still waiting for the evaluation - should be
> tomorrow... What a mess!
>
> In reality, how much damage could have been incured by doing the
> first 300 miles of break-in with no oil filter or the supporting
> cylinder in place? Should I take the dealer's word on the condition
> of my cylider, transmission, etc. or try to get another opinon? I
> believe the dealer to be reputable - they have been in business for
> decades, but the attitude of the service people really ticked me off.
>
> What would you do?
>
> Tom Denman
> Albuquerque, NM
>
>
>
>
>
> List sponsored by Dual Sport News at
www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ
courtesy of Chris Krok at:
www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html
> Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to:
>
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>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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>
>
>
>
>
new bike nightmare?
Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:53 pm
by klr6501995
You did not void the warranty by doing the service yourself !
Changing oil is covered in the USERS manual. DIY.
Do not go along with thier plan about discovery on 1st shop service!
That is dishonest. Lie cheating stealing etc. And will bite you in
the butt later. With dividends.
Get you a new bike and let them eat the cost. Every shop owner I have
EVER met does pretty well for himself.
In all honesty; probably no damage was done. The oil screen will
handle most damaging particles.
But you did pay for a new bike.
JMHO.
--- In
DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "tdenman" wrote:
> Hi Group,
> I'm a new member with a new 2005 KLR650. Being the conservative
> person I am, I changed my oil today at 300 miles. Guess what - I
> removed the oil filter cover and NO OIL FILTER! There was no
filter
> or the tube that pentrates the oil filter - just an empty cavity
> filled with oil!
>
> Within seconds I was on my way to the dealer (in my car) to demand
a
> new bike or my money back. Their immediate response (Motorsport,
> Albuquerque, NM) was that I had voided the warranty by doing the
500
> mile service myself (what does this have to do with anything?).
> After I read them the riot act they backed off slightly on that
> attitude. They agreed to have the bike towed to their facility
> to "evaluate the problem". Also, they encouraged me to support a
> story that the defect was found when I had brought the bike in for
> the first service. I'm still waiting for the evaluation - should be
> tomorrow... What a mess!
>
> In reality, how much damage could have been incured by doing the
> first 300 miles of break-in with no oil filter or the supporting
> cylinder in place? Should I take the dealer's word on the
condition
> of my cylider, transmission, etc. or try to get another opinon? I
> believe the dealer to be reputable - they have been in business for
> decades, but the attitude of the service people really ticked me
off.
>
> What would you do?
>
> Tom Denman
> Albuquerque, NM
new bike nightmare?
Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:54 pm
by Harry Seifert
First off, you did not void the warranty. So bullshit on them. And on
top of that, they want you to lie for them. My friend, you have them by
the short hairs.
If my understanding of the oiling system is correct, your oil circulated
but did not get cleaned.
Speak with the owner of the business, not one of his hired hands, and let
him know what's going on. If he continues to bullshit (can I say that, Mr.
Moderator?) you, make your next stop at an attorney and seek all legal
remedies. Oh, and by the way, be sure to let Kawasaki know about this
jerk. You've given fair warning to other members of the list.
Buddy
> [Original Message]
> From: tdenman
> To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: 8/11/2004 4:18:09 PM
> Subject: [DSN_klr650] New bike nightmare?
>
> Hi Group,
> I'm a new member with a new 2005 KLR650. Being the conservative
> person I am, I changed my oil today at 300 miles. Guess what - I
> removed the oil filter cover and NO OIL FILTER! There was no filter
> or the tube that pentrates the oil filter - just an empty cavity
> filled with oil!
>
> Within seconds I was on my way to the dealer (in my car) to demand a
> new bike or my money back. Their immediate response (Motorsport,
> Albuquerque, NM) was that I had voided the warranty by doing the 500
> mile service myself (what does this have to do with anything?).
> After I read them the riot act they backed off slightly on that
> attitude. They agreed to have the bike towed to their facility
> to "evaluate the problem". Also, they encouraged me to support a
> story that the defect was found when I had brought the bike in for
> the first service. I'm still waiting for the evaluation - should be
> tomorrow... What a mess!
>
> In reality, how much damage could have been incured by doing the
> first 300 miles of break-in with no oil filter or the supporting
> cylinder in place? Should I take the dealer's word on the condition
> of my cylider, transmission, etc. or try to get another opinon? I
> believe the dealer to be reputable - they have been in business for
> decades, but the attitude of the service people really ticked me off.
>
> What would you do?
>
> Tom Denman
> Albuquerque, NM
>
>
>
>
>
> List sponsored by Dual Sport News at
www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ
courtesy of Chris Krok at:
www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html
new bike nightmare?
Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:07 pm
by tdenman
Hi Group,
I'm a new member with a new 2005 KLR650. Being the conservative
person I am, I changed my oil today at 300 miles. Guess what - I
removed the oil filter cover and NO OIL FILTER! There was no filter
or the tube that pentrates the oil filter - just an empty cavity
filled with oil!
Within seconds I was on my way to the dealer (in my car) to demand a
new bike or my money back. Their immediate response was that I had
voided the warranty by doing the 500 mile service myself (what does
this have to do with anything?).
After I read them the riot act they backed off slightly on that
attitude. They agreed to have the bike towed to their facility
to "evaluate the problem". Also, they encouraged me to support a
story that the defect was found when I had brought the bike in for
the first service - which I did not do. I'm still waiting for the
evaluation - should be tomorrow... What a mess!
In reality, how much damage could have been incured by doing the
first 300 miles of break-in with no oil filter or the supporting
cylinder in place? Should I take the dealer's word on the condition
of my cylider, transmission, etc. or try to get another opinon? I
believe the dealer to be reputable - they have been in business for
decades, but the attitude of the service people really ticked me off.
What would you do?
Tom Denman
Albuquerque, NM
new bike nightmare?
Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:11 pm
by George Basinet
Does the Dealer install oil and filter on a brand new bike? It would seem
that was suppose to be done at the factory.
Maybe it is not his fault. Although I don't understand why he would want to
cover it up.
George
Escondido, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "klr6501995"
To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:53 PM
Subject: [DSN_klr650] Re: New bike nightmare?
> You did not void the warranty by doing the service yourself !
> Changing oil is covered in the USERS manual. DIY.
>
> Do not go along with thier plan about discovery on 1st shop service!
> That is dishonest. Lie cheating stealing etc. And will bite you in
> the butt later. With dividends.
>
> Get you a new bike and let them eat the cost. Every shop owner I have
> EVER met does pretty well for himself.
>
> In all honesty; probably no damage was done. The oil screen will
> handle most damaging particles.
> But you did pay for a new bike.
> JMHO.
>
>
>
> --- In
DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "tdenman" wrote:
> > Hi Group,
> > I'm a new member with a new 2005 KLR650. Being the conservative
> > person I am, I changed my oil today at 300 miles. Guess what - I
> > removed the oil filter cover and NO OIL FILTER! There was no
> filter
> > or the tube that pentrates the oil filter - just an empty cavity
> > filled with oil!
> >
> > Within seconds I was on my way to the dealer (in my car) to demand
> a
> > new bike or my money back. Their immediate response (Motorsport,
> > Albuquerque, NM) was that I had voided the warranty by doing the
> 500
> > mile service myself (what does this have to do with anything?).
> > After I read them the riot act they backed off slightly on that
> > attitude. They agreed to have the bike towed to their facility
> > to "evaluate the problem". Also, they encouraged me to support a
> > story that the defect was found when I had brought the bike in for
> > the first service. I'm still waiting for the evaluation - should be
> > tomorrow... What a mess!
> >
> > In reality, how much damage could have been incured by doing the
> > first 300 miles of break-in with no oil filter or the supporting
> > cylinder in place? Should I take the dealer's word on the
> condition
> > of my cylider, transmission, etc. or try to get another opinon? I
> > believe the dealer to be reputable - they have been in business for
> > decades, but the attitude of the service people really ticked me
> off.
> >
> > What would you do?
> >
> > Tom Denman
> > Albuquerque, NM
>
>
>
> List sponsored by Dual Sport News at
www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ
courtesy of Chris Krok at:
www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html
> Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to:
>
DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com .
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
new bike nightmare?
Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:11 pm
by Mike Torst
In my opinion, it is the owners word against theirs. Hear me out. The owner
can't prove the filter and tube were missing. SO, be flexible. - perhaps a
major extended warranty on the motor for 0 dollars. As to damage - I would
expect that minor metal particles have done some wear and tear, but not
extreme in nature. It IS a roller-bearing crank/rod motor, so the owner
should not get freaked out. Also, Video taping of all maintenance may help.
It would however, be easy to claim that the video was recorded after the
owner did something wrong and tried to video a proper DIY procedure.
Mike Torst
A16
Las Vegas
-----Original Message-----
From: klr6501995 [mailto:vansee@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:54 PM
To:
DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DSN_klr650] Re: New bike nightmare?
You did not void the warranty by doing the service yourself ! Changing oil
is covered in the USERS manual. DIY.
Do not go along with thier plan about discovery on 1st shop service! That is
dishonest. Lie cheating stealing etc. And will bite you in
the butt later. With dividends.
Get you a new bike and let them eat the cost. Every shop owner I have
EVER met does pretty well for himself.
In all honesty; probably no damage was done. The oil screen will
handle most damaging particles.
But you did pay for a new bike.
JMHO.
--- In
DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "tdenman" wrote:
> Hi Group,
> I'm a new member with a new 2005 KLR650. Being the conservative
> person I am, I changed my oil today at 300 miles. Guess what - I
> removed the oil filter cover and NO OIL FILTER! There was no
filter
> or the tube that pentrates the oil filter - just an empty cavity
> filled with oil!
>
> Within seconds I was on my way to the dealer (in my car) to demand
a
> new bike or my money back. Their immediate response (Motorsport,
> Albuquerque, NM) was that I had voided the warranty by doing the
500
> mile service myself (what does this have to do with anything?).
> After I read them the riot act they backed off slightly on that
> attitude. They agreed to have the bike towed to their facility
> to "evaluate the problem". Also, they encouraged me to support a
> story that the defect was found when I had brought the bike in for
> the first service. I'm still waiting for the evaluation - should be
> tomorrow... What a mess!
>
> In reality, how much damage could have been incured by doing the
> first 300 miles of break-in with no oil filter or the supporting
> cylinder in place? Should I take the dealer's word on the
condition
> of my cylider, transmission, etc. or try to get another opinon? I
> believe the dealer to be reputable - they have been in business for
> decades, but the attitude of the service people really ticked me
off.
>
> What would you do?
>
> Tom Denman
> Albuquerque, NM
List sponsored by Dual Sport News at
www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ
courtesy of Chris Krok at:
www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Unsubscribe by
sending a blank message to:
DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com .
Yahoo! Groups Links
new bike nightmare?
Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:23 pm
by matteeanne@yahoo.com
If you had any "chunks" in the system, they have been
long since "liquidated" and stuck here and there. I
doubt it would effect the long life of the bike. That
being said, I dont agree with "you have them by the
short hairs", trust me, if they want to screw you,
your screwed. Hire a lawyer? An office visit is more
money than a KLR. I got screwed by my dealer in very
much the same way, had I to do it over again, I would
not have "played hardball" but rather tried to make
them my freind rather than my sworn nemesis (Can we
say nemesis here?) Try to get them to give you an
invoice stating that they recognize it as a possible
problem later on, and effects of it should be covered
for say 25k miles?
By the way, Cycle Barn in Lynnwood Washington SUCKS!
Stay away! Do not give them money! Beware! (sorry, the
nemesis thing)
--- tdenman wrote:
> Hi Group,
> I'm a new member with a new 2005 KLR650. Being the
> conservative
> person I am, I changed my oil today at 300 miles.
> Guess what - I
> removed the oil filter cover and NO OIL FILTER!
> There was no filter
> or the tube that pentrates the oil filter - just an
> empty cavity
> filled with oil!
>
> Within seconds I was on my way to the dealer (in my
> car) to demand a
> new bike or my money back. Their immediate response
> was that I had
> voided the warranty by doing the 500 mile service
> myself (what does
> this have to do with anything?).
>
> After I read them the riot act they backed off
> slightly on that
> attitude. They agreed to have the bike towed to
> their facility
> to "evaluate the problem". Also, they encouraged me
> to support a
> story that the defect was found when I had brought
> the bike in for
> the first service - which I did not do. I'm still
> waiting for the
> evaluation - should be tomorrow... What a mess!
>
> In reality, how much damage could have been incured
> by doing the
> first 300 miles of break-in with no oil filter or
> the supporting
> cylinder in place? Should I take the dealer's word
> on the condition
> of my cylider, transmission, etc. or try to get
> another opinon? I
> believe the dealer to be reputable - they have been
> in business for
> decades, but the attitude of the service people
> really ticked me off.
>
> What would you do?
>
> Tom Denman
> Albuquerque, NM
>
>
>
>
> List sponsored by Dual Sport News at
>
www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ courtesy of Chris
> Krok at:
www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html
> Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to:
>
DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com .
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
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new bike nightmare?
Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:31 pm
by nakedwaterskier
probably didnt hurt anything...but I would be afraid of that bike
too ie what else did they screw up?
mine came with no rear brakes and the rear turn signals crossed
i made them fix the rear brakes but fixed the wiring myself--I COULD
HAVE BEEN KILLED
new bike nightmare?
Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:54 pm
by Stuart Mumford
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "mike torst"
> Subject: RE: Re: New bike nightmare?
>
> In my opinion, it is the owners word against theirs. Hear me out.
> The owner
> can't prove the filter and tube were missing. SO, be flexible. - perhaps a
> major extended warranty on the motor for 0 dollars. As to damage - I would
> expect that minor metal particles have done some wear and tear, but not
> extreme in nature. It IS a roller-bearing crank/rod motor, so the owner
> should not get freaked out. Also, Video taping of all maintenance
> may help.
> It would however, be easy to claim that the video was recorded after the
> owner did something wrong and tried to video a proper DIY procedure.
>
>
> Mike Torst
> A16
> Las Vegas
I partially agree with Mike.
I don't think the omission was made with malice, just shoddy work at the
dealer's assembly shop.
If push came to shove and you ended up in court, if their attorney says
"Prove it wasn't in there", you can't.
Ask them to give you a 4 year warranty at no charge, be nice, be honest, and
take the high road.
Even if you get screwed, you'll still like the person you see in the mirror
when you shave.
I'm always nice to businesses and the people that work there.
If they crap on me, I'm still nice, they just never see me again...
I reckon your bike is OK, and I feel bad you got such a shock.
There are thousands of cars and bikes on the road in Mexico that don't even
have an air filter, let alone an oil change!
All's well that ends well. You still have a KLR!
Cheers and good luck
CA Stu
A13
A14
PS that video idea is the gayest thing I've ever heard.
new bike nightmare?
Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:45 pm
by squasher_1
--- In
DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "KLR Rider - Scott Adams"
wrote:
> Tom - welcome to the group and I won't touch the mechanical issues
but I
> will touch a general legal matter. Note that I haven't reviewed
your case
> and don't know ALL the facts and am not licensed in your state so I
am not
> giving you specific legal advice. How's that for CYA:
>
> Dealers will yell and scream about "Voiding a Warranty
by ........." Guess
> what - it is hogwash. Federal law, the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act
in
> specific, covers this issue. The only thing related to this that
they are
> allowed to "Disclaim" and not cover by a warranty is any damage
DONE BY YOU
> in doing the service yourself. Since you checking and/or changing
your own
> oil didn't DO any damage - they are screwed no matter how many
times they
> try and go down that road. They know it, but they also know that
you
> probably don't.
>
> The second thing, however, is even more important. DO NOT go along
with
> their little plan. That is fraud and THAT can make it so they have
no
> obligations to you whatsoever and even make you criminally guilty.
>
> Good luck and let us know.
>
> -Scott
>
>
I agree, they are trying to cover thier ass for THEIR mistake. I
think you should write Kawasaki a letter telling them about the
problem and how you want it fixed. and send it certified with return
reciept. Dont give them the copy of the pre dilivery check list you
got when you bought the bike. they probably didn't check off the "oil
filter" box, and that you can use against them.