Wilsons Sandbox

Posted: **Tue May 18, 2004 2:07 pm**

I've never done a political post here, and apologize if it offends the moderator. But since a number of our brothers have had their jobs disappear in the recent past, I thought this might be of interest to some. It's a website that tracks companies that are shipping jobs overseas: http://www.whosoutsourcing.com Jett, A15 AZ

Posted: **Tue May 18, 2004 2:13 pm**

Dell is one of them. They employ hundreds of people over in INDIA to handle tech support because it's cheaper than paying Americans. They don't handle specific questions very well at all (they stick to the manual) and you may have trouble understanding what the hell they are saying. Several analists were saying it is good for business because of increased profit margins, but when your customers are pulling their hair out on the other end of the phone I don't consider that good for business. "Dude, I'm NOT getting a Dell".

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "azman321" wrote: > I've never done a political post here, and apologize if it offends > the moderator. But since a number of our brothers have had their jobs > disappear in the recent past, I thought this might be of interest to > some. It's a website that tracks companies that are shipping jobs > overseas: > > http://www.whosoutsourcing.com > > Jett, A15 AZ

Posted: **Tue May 18, 2004 2:27 pm**

On Tue, 2004-05-18 at 15:07, azman321 wrote:

> I've never done a political post here, and apologize if it offends > the moderator. But since a number of our brothers have had their jobs > disappear in the recent past, I thought this might be of interest to > some. It's a website that tracks companies that are shipping jobs > overseas: > > http://www.whosoutsourcing.com >

Yup folks, outsourcing is EEEVVVIIIIILLLLL! Especially when companies can hire smarter, better educated, harder working people for less money in India, when they should really be hiring stupid, lazy Americans for 10x as much! Yup, our worship of the almighty buck is biting us in the ass. Z

Posted: **Tue May 18, 2004 5:30 pm**

A friend of mine, who is also an excellent Java programmer, recently started his own company, and is developing a very innovative software program. He designed it, but didn't want to write it. He found a couple of guys in Belarus (Russia), who are excellent programmers, and work their tails off, for $15.00 an hour. There production and skill is better than 90% of the American programmers I have worked with, many getting $80.00 - $100.00 hr. They grew up with nothing under communism, and $15.00 hr. is incredible to them. So its not just the big boys going overseas. R -----Original Message----- From: Zachariah Mully [mailto:zmully@...] Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 12:28 PM To: azman321 Cc: KLR List Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] NKLR - Job outsourcing

On Tue, 2004-05-18 at 15:07, azman321 wrote: > I've never done a political post here, and apologize if it offends > the moderator. But since a number of our brothers have had their jobs > disappear in the recent past, I thought this might be of interest to > some. It's a website that tracks companies that are shipping jobs > overseas: > > http://www.whosoutsourcing.com > Yup folks, outsourcing is EEEVVVIIIIILLLLL! Especially when companies can hire smarter, better educated, harder working people for less money in India, when they should really be hiring stupid, lazy Americans for 10x as much! Yup, our worship of the almighty buck is biting us in the ass. Z www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . Yahoo! Groups Links

Posted: **Tue May 18, 2004 6:41 pm**

I bet if he had looked hard enough he could have found AMERICANS to do it for 15 an hour cash also....there is always an excuse or a reason but as the sign said,,,the job you save may be your own!! Its like the chinese factories,,,,sure they will sell a shoe or widget made there for $1 but they are just waiting for the day when all the american manufacturers are gone and that widget will be $50 --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Russell Scott" wrote:

> A friend of mine, who is also an excellent Java programmer,

recently started

> his own company, and is developing a very innovative software

program. He

> designed it, but didn't want to write it. He found a couple of

guys in

> Belarus (Russia), who are excellent programmers, and work their

tails off,

> for $15.00 an hour. There production and skill is better than 90%

of the

> American programmers I have worked with, many getting $80.00 -

$100.00 hr.

> They grew up with nothing under communism, and $15.00 hr. is

incredible to

> them. So its not just the big boys going overseas. > > R > > -----Original Message----- > From: Zachariah Mully [mailto:zmully@s...] > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 12:28 PM > To: azman321 > Cc: KLR List > Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] NKLR - Job outsourcing > > > On Tue, 2004-05-18 at 15:07, azman321 wrote: > > I've never done a political post here, and apologize if it offends > > the moderator. But since a number of our brothers have had their

jobs

> > disappear in the recent past, I thought this might be of interest

to

> > some. It's a website that tracks companies that are shipping jobs > > overseas: > > > > http://www.whosoutsourcing.com > > > > Yup folks, outsourcing is EEEVVVIIIIILLLLL! Especially when

companies

> can hire smarter, better educated, harder working people for less

money

> in India, when they should really be hiring stupid, lazy Americans

for

> 10x as much! > > Yup, our worship of the almighty buck is biting us in the ass. > > Z DC > A5X > A12X > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ > courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . > > > Yahoo! Groups Links

Posted: **Tue May 18, 2004 7:31 pm**

Job outsourcing is an interesting issue. The problem is that we (USA)are in "ECONOMIC COMPETITION" with the rest of the world and we have been winning. Will we continue to win? Not unless we work harder and smarter. That's the rub. What is harder and smarter? I guess that depends upon to whom you are speaking too. Outsourcing is not going away just because some politicion parades around giving it lip service during an election year. That is only a ploy to get the Union vote. The only ways to limit the effect of outsourcing is to; 1. Work smarter than those hungry folks outside the USA. 2. Fight with your money. Don't buy anything made by a company that outsources. Now since we are talking to a group of folks (me included) who ride Jap Motorcycles, wear Italian riding boots, Korean riding cloths, and use Chinese tools ......... Need I go on. Well maybe we need to look at smarter. Let's all go back to school and study 18-20 hours a day, live on little or know money and take any job we can get, work 12-14 hrs a day, with little or know benefits. Well to heck with it, lets just forget it and go ride our jap motorcycle while wearing our Italian.............. -----Original Message----- From: azman321 [mailto:jettand11@...] Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 2:07 PM To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_klr650] NKLR - Job outsourcing I've never done a political post here, and apologize if it offends the moderator. But since a number of our brothers have had their jobs disappear in the recent past, I thought this might be of interest to some. It's a website that tracks companies that are shipping jobs overseas: http://www.whosoutsourcing.com Jett, A15 AZ List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . Yahoo! Groups Links

Posted: **Tue May 18, 2004 7:38 pm**

Yeah, that's true(not that forcing our wages down to compete with people who are basically slaves is good, our OWN unions and workers fought hard for all of the nice working conditions we have, including weekends). The more of our own technology we outsource, the more dependant we become on China, Taiwan, etc. and it is not completely paranoid to imagine the rest of the world enacting embargos against the US if our behaviour overseas continues to escalate as it does... Anyway, the more homegrown product we deal with, the more powerful we can be as a nation. Except I don't think Harley makes DS bikes anymore (do they still make Harleys here?)... rm

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "westnash1" wrote: > I bet if he had looked hard enough he could have found AMERICANS to > do it for 15 an hour cash also....there is always an excuse or a > reason but as the sign said,,,the job you save may be your own!! > > Its like the chinese factories,,,,sure they will sell a shoe or > widget made there for $1 but they are just waiting for the day when > all the american manufacturers are gone and that widget will be $50 > > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Russell Scott" > wrote: > > A friend of mine, who is also an excellent Java programmer, > > > > > > recently started > > his own company, and is developing a very innovative software > program. He > > designed it, but didn't want to write it. He found a couple of > guys in > > Belarus (Russia), who are excellent programmers, and work their > tails off, > > for $15.00 an hour. There production and skill is better than 90% > of the > > American programmers I have worked with, many getting $80.00 - > $100.00 hr. > > They grew up with nothing under communism, and $15.00 hr. is > incredible to > > them. So its not just the big boys going overseas. > > > > R > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Zachariah Mully [mailto:zmully@s...] > > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 12:28 PM > > To: azman321 > > Cc: KLR List > > Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] NKLR - Job outsourcing > > > > > > On Tue, 2004-05-18 at 15:07, azman321 wrote: > > > I've never done a political post here, and apologize if it offends > > > the moderator. But since a number of our brothers have had their > jobs > > > disappear in the recent past, I thought this might be of interest > to > > > some. It's a website that tracks companies that are shipping jobs > > > overseas: > > > > > > http://www.whosoutsourcing.com > > > > > > > Yup folks, outsourcing is EEEVVVIIIIILLLLL! Especially when > companies > > can hire smarter, better educated, harder working people for less > money > > in India, when they should really be hiring stupid, lazy Americans > for > > 10x as much! > > > > Yup, our worship of the almighty buck is biting us in the ass. > > > > Z > DC > > A5X > > A12X > > > > > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ > > courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: > > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links

Posted: **Tue May 18, 2004 7:44 pm**

Your missing something. As his company grows, then he has to hire people here to do sales, marketing, and support. So instead of burning up all his start-up capitol on expensive programmers, and having nothing to show for it, he will soon have a thriving company, that will employ many Americans. Much better than a failed startup, that hires or contributes nothing to our economy. Its called free enterprise, and it works well when you let it. Of course, with all the socialistic brain washing in public schools, and the left wing media, of course outsourcing looks bad. R -----Original Message----- From: westnash1 [mailto:westnash1@...] Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 4:41 PM To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_klr650] Re: NKLR - Job outsourcing I bet if he had looked hard enough he could have found AMERICANS to do it for 15 an hour cash also....there is always an excuse or a reason but as the sign said,,,the job you save may be your own!! Its like the chinese factories,,,,sure they will sell a shoe or widget made there for $1 but they are just waiting for the day when all the american manufacturers are gone and that widget will be $50

Posted: **Tue May 18, 2004 7:46 pm**

On Tue, May 18, 2004 at 11:41:14PM -0000, westnash1 wrote:

> I bet if he had looked hard enough he could have found AMERICANS to > do it for 15 an hour cash also....there is always an excuse or a > reason but as the sign said,,,the job you save may be your own!!

Honestly, no he couldn't have. I work in the tech industry and face outsourcing daily, it sucks. The economy has created a mess that has to balance out though, and balance it will eventually. My skillset can be had at $50k now, thankfully I'm not looking for work as I'd not be able to afford a home for my family on that in this area. Entry level housing is $250k and you can't even get one at that price, you only start to find homes at $300k. Add to that commuting expenses that run about $10k/yr after taxes and try to figure out how you'd pay for a home, a family's food, utilities, and maybe one car on $50k/yr... you can't. Before outsourcing and H1-B labor flooding the market, my skillset was demanding $130k. That's a reduction of $80k in just four years in a market where housing has pretty much doubled in just a bit longer. The money saved...the executives and lawyers are taking home, it has nothing to do with necessity and everything to do with corporate greed. I don't defend the top most of the echelon in pay, but there needs to be a balance struck eventually. A balance with the local economy and general cost of living The whole 'shortage' was a myth to allow businesses to cheapen the labor force. But you'll never find highly skilled engineers in the US that have families and houses that will work for $15/hr. You might be able to live on that in some areas, but nowhere that there is a tech center for sure.

> Its like the chinese factories,,,,sure they will sell a shoe or > widget made there for $1 but they are just waiting for the day when > all the american manufacturers are gone and that widget will be $50

This is also true and labor costs in India are rising as they, in the technical market, are now being undercut by Russia/Korea/China. The boom boosted the economy in India so much that in Bangalore, property values resemble some third-market areas of the US now. In turn, the employees are no longer working for $2/day and are making low thirties as programmers. Eventually a balance will be had, but getting there will be painful. -- ___ ______ _____ __ ________ ___ / _ |< < / == / ___/__ / /_ /_ __/ / __ ____ _ ___ /__ \ / __ |/ // / ****/ (_ / _ \/ __/ / / / _ \/ // / ' \/ _ \ /__/ /_/ |_/_//_/ == \___/\___/\__/ /_/ /_//_/\_,_/_/_/_/ .__/ (_) 8600 miles*Russel Lines*Supertrapp Race* /_/ http://www.kingsqueak.org/klr650/

Posted: **Tue May 18, 2004 7:50 pm**

Hey, regarding buying Jap bikes, Italian boots, Chinese tools etc., these things, probably excepting the tools, are all products of other countries companies right? Kawasaki is a Japanese company who outsources to Taiwan, not an American company that outsources to Japan, who outsources to Taiwan, who outsources to Malaysia, who outsources to...etc.

Wilsons Sandbox

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