Wilsons Sandbox

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, Mark Tullis wrote:

> > I noticed some of the listers here have experience with the both

BMW GS1100 and the KLR650. I've got a buddy who has been considering buying a 2002 KLR but now is being seduced by a clean 95 GS1100 that is newly for sale for around $6K. Like me, he'll be doing a combination of on and off road riding, DS rides, some desert, some moutain riding, a fair amount of two-up. I have no experience with the GS, but love my KLR and have been trying to sway him in that direction, but I think I'm losing. Clearly, they are both great bikes, and have strengths and weaknesses in different areas. But for those on the list who know both bikes, I'd appreciate it if you could share your wisdom.

> > Thanks, > > Mark T. A12 > > Portland, OR

Mark, I own a 2003 KLR and a 97 R1100GS. I love both bikes. The GS is a great bike on the road. It is a bike that has the ability to go off road but I seldom take it there. The KLR is far better for such a venture. Off road can become a place where the GS is not nearly as nimble as the KLR. The KLR is much more capable of rougher terrain than is the GS. The opposite can be said of the KLR and the GS when it comes to the highway. The GS is a motorcycle one could just point in a direction and ride until the roads lead you to an ocean or such. It is as dependable as any bike made. If your friend wants to travel off road with you let him try your KLR and then try it on a GS. I am sure he will find out that the KLR is much more at home off road than is the GS. The KLR cannot be compared to the GS on the highways nor the GS compared to the KLR off road. They are each capable of doing either but they each do one much better than the other and neither is great at both. Therefore I have them both, love them both, and would not part with either. I like the KLR for most of the riding I do. It is a great bike to run around town on and just use as an everyday vehicle. The Beemer gets the call when I want to take off on an extended trip which will be ridden at faster than comfortable speeds for the KLR. I doubt that this has helped in any way but I tried to offer my opinion. If you ride alot off road and your friend wants to ride with you then he should go for the KLR. Regards, John A17 R1100GS

> > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, Mark Tullis wrote:

> > I noticed some of the listers here have experience with the both

BMW GS1100 and the KLR650. I've got a buddy who has been considering buying a 2002 KLR but now is being seduced by a clean 95 GS1100 that is newly for sale for around $6K. Like me, he'll be doing a combination of on and off road riding, DS rides, some desert, some moutain riding, a fair amount of two-up. I have no experience with the GS, but love my KLR and have been trying to sway him in that direction, but I think I'm losing. Clearly, they are both great bikes, and have strengths and weaknesses in different areas. But for those on the list who know both bikes, I'd appreciate it if you could share your wisdom. BMW: Expensive, HEAVY, solid, good for two-up, will go 200,000+ miles with maintenance, great road bike, too big for technical/single-track unless you're an expert, expensive aftermarket parts, hard to work on (lots of high-tech, solid-state stuff). KLR: Inexpensive, relatively light, pushing the limit two-up, does everything OK, engine good for ~80,000 miles, lots of inexpensive aftermarket parts, can be worked on at home or in the field if you're at all mechanically inclined. Ira Agins Santa Fe, NM A16 (and a K1100LT)

The only thing I would add to that is that routine maintenance on R11XXGS bikes is relatively easy. The valve adjustment is done without removing the tank, no shims, just an allen key and a 10 mm wrench. If any of the electronic brain or fuel injection goes wonky in the woods you are screwed, though the last time someone polled the GS list no one could remember it happening. As for longevity, I met a fellow in Charleston who had 300,00 plus miles on his R bike. Riley A15 00 1150 Ira Agins wrote:

> > > >BMW: Expensive, HEAVY, solid, good for two-up, will go 200,000+ miles >with maintenance, great road bike, too big for technical/single-track >unless you're an expert, expensive aftermarket parts, hard to work on >(lots of high-tech, solid-state stuff). > >Ira Agins >Santa Fe, NM >A16 (and a K1100LT) > > >

For $6000 he can't go wrong with the GS if he wants to do some serious road work with very lite off-road forays and IFF it has had ALL the maintenance done including $300 to lube the shaft splines. Catch-up maintenance on the GS is hideous. I went this route, owning a GS for two whole months and selling it for what I paid for it. I spent a lot of time on the GS list learning about problems and fixes. The GS is a great bike, but you gotta be really dedicated to its maintenance. Oh, and did we mention heavy? I've taken my Tiger many places I wouldn't even think of taking a GS, including unmaintained enduro routes. The KLR has been through some seriously technical single track and even some no-track with minimal fuss. Milt Rudy

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Ira Agins" wrote: > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, Mark Tullis wrote: > > > > I noticed some of the listers here have experience with the both > BMW GS1100 and the KLR650. I've got a buddy who has been considering buying a 2002 KLR but now is being seduced by a clean 95 GS1100 that is newly for sale for around $6K. Like me, he'll be doing a combination of on and off road riding, DS rides, some desert, some moutain riding, a fair amount of two-up. I have no experience with the GS, but love my KLR and have been trying to sway him in that > direction, but I think I'm losing. Clearly, they are both great > bikes, and have strengths and weaknesses in different areas. But for those on the list who know both bikes, I'd appreciate it if you could share your wisdom. > ...

Hey, my Tahoe will do a fair amount of offroading too, but try taking it accidentally into the abyss. You'll be glad that that compulsive exploration was done on the Mighty KLR! Rod, Glad I was able to get out of those tight trails alive!

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "rolxman" wrote: > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, Mark Tullis wrote: > > > > I noticed some of the listers here have experience with the both > BMW GS1100 and the KLR650. I've got a buddy who has been considering > buying a 2002 KLR but now is being seduced by a clean 95 GS1100 that > is newly for sale for around $6K. Like me, he'll be doing a > combination of on and off road riding, DS rides, some desert, some > moutain riding, a fair amount of two-up. I have no experience with > the GS, but love my KLR and have been trying to sway him in that > direction, but I think I'm losing. Clearly, they are both great > bikes, and have strengths and weaknesses in different areas. But for > those on the list who know both bikes, I'd appreciate it if you could > share your wisdom. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mark T. A12 > > > > Portland, OR > > Mark, > I own a 2003 KLR and a 97 R1100GS. I love both bikes. The GS is a > great bike on the road. It is a bike that has the ability to go off > road but I seldom take it there. The KLR is far better for such a > venture. Off road can become a place where the GS is not nearly as > nimble as the KLR. The KLR is much more capable of rougher terrain > than is the GS. The opposite can be said of the KLR and the GS when > it comes to the highway. The GS is a motorcycle one could just point > in a direction and ride until the roads lead you to an ocean or such. > It is as dependable as any bike made. If your friend wants to travel > off road with you let him try your KLR and then try it on a GS. I am > sure he will find out that the KLR is much more at home off road than > is the GS. The KLR cannot be compared to the GS on the highways nor > the GS compared to the KLR off road. They are each capable of doing > either but they each do one much better than the other and neither is > great at both. Therefore I have them both, love them both, and would > not part with either. I like the KLR for most of the riding I do. It > is a great bike to run around town on and just use as an everyday > vehicle. The Beemer gets the call when I want to take off on an > extended trip which will be ridden at faster than comfortable speeds > for the KLR. I doubt that this has helped in any way but I tried to > offer my opinion. If you ride alot off road and your friend wants to > ride with you then he should go for the KLR. > > Regards, > John > A17 > R1100GS > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 2003-08-06 5:05:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, dmtullis@... writes:

> > I noticed some of the listers here have experience with the both BMW GS1100 > and the KLR650. I've got a buddy who has been considering buying a 2002 KLR > but now is being seduced by a clean 95 GS1100 that is newly for sale for > around $6K. Like me, he'll be doing a combination of on and off road riding, DS > rides, some desert, some moutain riding, a fair amount of two-up. I have no > experience with the GS, but love my KLR and have been trying to sway him in > that direction, but I think I'm losing. Clearly, they are both great bikes, > and have strengths and weaknesses in different areas. But for those on the > list who know both bikes, I'd appreciate it if you could share your wisdom. > > Thanks, > > Mark T. A12 > > Portland, OR >

In my mind here is the big difference - I just got back from a 15 tour with twenty other bikes, two of which where BMW GS1100/1150s. We spent two days in Ouray, Co. My KLR, complete with panniers and back pack for a tail trunk had no problems making it over Imogene, Black Bear and Ophir Passes. The GS1100 were only able to conquer Ophir, the easiest of the three, and they had to portage their luggage through the tougher spots and even had to 'walk' their bikes over the top of Ophir. With the clear fact staring them in the face both riders offered up opinions that the BMW GS was an off road bike in name only. Both offered up the fact that 1st was just too tall to allow for decent plonking and the front kept wandering. The GS1100/1150 is not an off pavement bike unless you plan to spend all your time exploring the super slab equivalent of dirt roads. If the dirt gets any nastier then between the weight of the GS and its lack of a 21" front wheel made riding the bike more of a fight than a pleasure. If you are on a GS and want to ride anything rougher you need to have a couple of friends along because sooner or later you will need their help to 'portage' you GS though the rougher stuff. Might also mention that in two weeks of exploring the Colorado Rockies while I saw plenty of GS's on the pavement, except for my buddies on the tour I never saw another BMW off pavement while I managed to average about 50 miles of off highway riding and half of that was on stuff as rough or rougher than Imogene Pass and Black Bear Pass. To have ridden a GS, or the FS for that matter, would have been like bringing a knife to a gun fight if you want to really take the bike off road. Pat G'ville, Nv [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I've got the 1150GS Adventure. I've put about 30,000 miles on a KLR. I got rid of the KLR after owning the Adventure for a while. It was honestly like parting with a girlfriend. Very difficult. But i realized the KLR lost its "niche" after i got the GS. The KLR is definitely better offroad, but i also disagree that the GS won't do anything but improved roads. It's just not true. It may not be FUN on more difficult trails, but it will definitely do them and i have been impressed by its capabilities, more than i expected. But who wants not to have fun? I think it depends on what you really want to do with your bike. For me, i think a dual-sported medium-bore (xr/drz 400, exc, etc) or big-bore dirt bike (xr650r, etc) is ideal for most dual-sporting with an emphasis on dirt. For street rides with lots of curvy roads, or higher speeds, or two-up, and certainly with any combination of these on rougher roads, and incidentally also on wet roads, i much prefer the GS over the klr. It's a no-brainer on the highway. Any dual sport is a compromise, which is why i have so many... :^) _pete 03GL1800 02BMWR1150GSA 01GasGasPampera280 00XR400R DS 01XR650R 83XL600 -----Original Message----- From: kdxkawboy@... [mailto:kdxkawboy@...] Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 6:49 AM To: dmtullis@...; DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] KLR650 vs GS1100 In a message dated 2003-08-06 5:05:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, dmtullis@... writes:

> > I noticed some of the listers here have experience with the both BMW

GS1100

> and the KLR650. I've got a buddy who has been considering buying a

2002 KLR

> but now is being seduced by a clean 95 GS1100 that is newly for sale

for

> around $6K. Like me, he'll be doing a combination of on and off road

riding, DS

> rides, some desert, some moutain riding, a fair amount of two-up. I

have no

> experience with the GS, but love my KLR and have been trying to sway

him in

> that direction, but I think I'm losing. Clearly, they are both great

bikes,

> and have strengths and weaknesses in different areas. But for those

on the

> list who know both bikes, I'd appreciate it if you could share your

wisdom.

> > Thanks, > > Mark T. A12 > > Portland, OR >

In my mind here is the big difference - I just got back from a 15 tour with twenty other bikes, two of which where BMW GS1100/1150s. We spent two days in Ouray, Co. My KLR, complete with panniers and back pack for a tail trunk had no problems making it over Imogene, Black Bear and Ophir Passes. The GS1100 were only able to conquer Ophir, the easiest of the three, and they had to portage their luggage through the tougher spots and even had to 'walk' their bikes over the top of Ophir. With the clear fact staring them in the face both riders offered up opinions that the BMW GS was an off road bike in name only. Both offered up the fact that 1st was just too tall to allow for decent plonking and the front kept wandering. The GS1100/1150 is not an off pavement bike unless you plan to spend all your time exploring the super slab equivalent of dirt roads. If the dirt gets any nastier then between the weight of the GS and its lack of a 21" front wheel made riding the bike more of a fight than a pleasure. If you are on a GS and want to ride anything rougher you need to have a couple of friends along because sooner or later you will need their help to 'portage' you GS though the rougher stuff. Might also mention that in two weeks of exploring the Colorado Rockies while I saw plenty of GS's on the pavement, except for my buddies on the tour I never saw another BMW off pavement while I managed to average about 50 miles of off highway riding and half of that was on stuff as rough or rougher than Imogene Pass and Black Bear Pass. To have ridden a GS, or the FS for that matter, would have been like bringing a knife to a gun fight if you want to really take the bike off road. Pat G'ville, Nv [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

So when we going to put some TKC80s on the GL? Fred

----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Dahlheimer, MD" To: Cc: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 7:02 AM Subject: RE: [DSN_klr650] KLR650 vs GS1100 > > Any dual sport is a compromise, which is why i have so many... :^) > > _pete > 03GL1800 > 02BMWR1150GSA > 01GasGasPampera280 > 00XR400R DS > > 01XR650R > 83XL600

I've said it before and I'll say it again: it ain't the bike, it's the rider. An expert rider on a GS will go anywhere most of us here can go on our KLRs, except maybe mud. If you're not an expert rider, buy the KLR and you'll have a lot more fun in the dirt. If you are an expert and don't mind muscling around the extra weight, buy the GS and you'll have a lot more fun and comfort on the inevitable highway stretches. __Arden

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, kdxkawboy@a... wrote: > In a message dated 2003-08-06 5:05:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > dmtullis@y... writes: > > > > > I noticed some of the listers here have experience with the both BMW GS1100 > > and the KLR650. I've got a buddy who has been considering buying a 2002 KLR > > but now is being seduced by a clean 95 GS1100 that is newly for sale for > > around $6K. Like me, he'll be doing a combination of on and off road riding, DS > > rides, some desert, some moutain riding, a fair amount of two- up. I have no > > experience with the GS, but love my KLR and have been trying to sway him in > > that direction, but I think I'm losing. Clearly, they are both great bikes, > > and have strengths and weaknesses in different areas. But for those on the > > list who know both bikes, I'd appreciate it if you could share your wisdom. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mark T. A12 > > > > Portland, OR > > > > In my mind here is the big difference - > > I just got back from a 15 tour with twenty other bikes, two of which where > BMW GS1100/1150s. We spent two days in Ouray, Co. My KLR, complete with panniers > and back pack for a tail trunk had no problems making it over Imogene, Black > Bear and Ophir Passes. The GS1100 were only able to conquer Ophir, the easiest > of the three, and they had to portage their luggage through the tougher spots > and even had to 'walk' their bikes over the top of Ophir. With the clear fact > staring them in the face both riders offered up opinions that the BMW GS was > an off road bike in name only. Both offered up the fact that 1st was just too > tall to allow for decent plonking and the front kept wandering. > > The GS1100/1150 is not an off pavement bike unless you plan to spend all your > time exploring the super slab equivalent of dirt roads. If the dirt gets any > nastier then between the weight of the GS and its lack of a 21" front wheel > made riding the bike more of a fight than a pleasure. If you are on a GS and > want to ride anything rougher you need to have a couple of friends along because > sooner or later you will need their help to 'portage' you GS though the > rougher stuff. > > Might also mention that in two weeks of exploring the Colorado Rockies while > I saw plenty of GS's on the pavement, except for my buddies on the tour I > never saw another BMW off pavement while I managed to average about 50 miles of > off highway riding and half of that was on stuff as rough or rougher than > Imogene Pass and Black Bear Pass. To have ridden a GS, or the FS for that matter, > would have been like bringing a knife to a gun fight if you want to really take > the bike off road. > > Pat > G'ville, Nv > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]