Page 1 of 2
exercise (nklr) ignorance alert
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2001 10:59 am
by MWeaver@niku.com
--- In DSN_klr650@y..., "Claes Borovac" wrote:
> Please do not use cycling for a comparison. They are ALL using
drugs,
> the cyclists that is.
some are. some aren't. lots of people throw around baseless
accusations like this to sell newspaers. anyway, it doesn't have to
be a pro bicyclist. most amateur racers are pretty dang fit, and the
ones i know don't do performance-enhancing drugs of any kind.
> And by the way, if you took a cyclist and stuck him on a mx bike, he
> would not stand a chance in hell either, their upperbodies are
> completely underdeveloped, something very necessary for mx, right?
cyclists come in all shapes and sizes. lots of them have at least the
upper body development of a motocrosser, but that's not saying much.
motocrossers usually seem to be fit, wiry, little guys. finesse and
skill and endurance are probably more important than muscular
strength.
anyway, who cares? none of us is an elite mx-er or an elite bike
racer. it is meaningless to me which is more "fit" (if you can even
define that term satisfactorily). one thing is for sure, bicycling
can increase your ability to enjoy riding your motorcycle in the dirt.
-mark weaver
exercise (nklr) ignorance alert
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2001 11:49 pm
by trevor.walton@verizon.net
At 03:58 PM 7/31/01 +0000, you wrote:
>--- In DSN_klr650@y..., "Claes Borovac" wrote:
> > Please do not use cycling for a comparison. They are ALL using
>drugs,
> > the cyclists that is.
>
>some are. some aren't. lots of people throw around baseless
>accusations like this to sell newspaers. anyway, it doesn't have to
>be a pro bicyclist. most amateur racers are pretty dang fit, and the
>ones i know don't do performance-enhancing drugs of any kind.
That's because most amateur racers (myself included) race for the love of
the sport and for the fitness/health benefits. Mucking about with
performance enhancing drugs takes a serious toll on your body, negating the
health benefits of training. That's why I can't understand why so many
people claim Lance has to be doping. I seriously doubt that anyone who's
gone through what he's been through, and survived is going to risk their
health for a sporting event... And from an amateur point of view, even if
one were prone to doping, who could afford it? The *legal* nutritional
supplements are expensive enough. ~$40 for 20 or so servings of a
post-workout recovery drink, same for Revenge or Cytomax or similar
during-event sports drink, and if you're into herbal supplements (I'm not)
it can get even more expensive. I can't even imagine what the *illegal*
performance enhancing drugs must cost.
As for the which is a better workout debate, I'll bring my heart rate
monitor when I get the new KLR off-road (waiting 'til after the break-in,
don't wanna be restricted to 4k rpm). Though given my experience level
off-road on anything with a motor(nil), that's probably not a fair
comparison. Any cyclists/mx'ers have heart rate monitor and wanna put this
debate to rest?
-Trevor
exercise (nklr) ignorance alert
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2001 6:29 am
by Claes Borovac
I have been in to cycling myself and know what is required. I am only
talking about the top riders in Tour de France. That is all. In other
words, all the riders shown on TV.
Claes.
-----Original Message-----
From: MWeaver@... [mailto:MWeaver@...]
Sent: 31 July 2001 16:58
To:
DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DSN_klr650] Re: exercise (NKLR) ignorance alert
--- In DSN_klr650@y..., "Claes Borovac" wrote:
> Please do not use cycling for a comparison. They are ALL using
drugs,
> the cyclists that is.
some are. some aren't. lots of people throw around baseless
accusations like this to sell newspaers. anyway, it doesn't have to
be a pro bicyclist. most amateur racers are pretty dang fit, and the
ones i know don't do performance-enhancing drugs of any kind.
> And by the way, if you took a cyclist and stuck him on a mx bike, he
> would not stand a chance in hell either, their upperbodies are
> completely underdeveloped, something very necessary for mx, right?
cyclists come in all shapes and sizes. lots of them have at least the
upper body development of a motocrosser, but that's not saying much.
motocrossers usually seem to be fit, wiry, little guys. finesse and
skill and endurance are probably more important than muscular
strength.
anyway, who cares? none of us is an elite mx-er or an elite bike
racer. it is meaningless to me which is more "fit" (if you can even
define that term satisfactorily). one thing is for sure, bicycling
can increase your ability to enjoy riding your motorcycle in the dirt.
-mark weaver
Visit the KLR650 archives at
http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650
Post message:
DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe:
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exercise (nklr) ignorance alert
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2001 9:06 am
by Claes Borovac
Auch, the heart rate will not decide which is the most exhausting
excercise unfortunately. For example, you have a higher max pulse when
running compared to when bicycling. So it is a no go.
-----Original Message-----
From: trevor.walton@... [mailto:trevor.walton@...]
Sent: 01 August 2001 05:48
To:
DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] Re: exercise (NKLR) ignorance alert
At 03:58 PM 7/31/01 +0000, you wrote:
>--- In DSN_klr650@y..., "Claes Borovac" wrote:
> > Please do not use cycling for a comparison. They are ALL using
>drugs,
> > the cyclists that is.
>
>some are. some aren't. lots of people throw around baseless
>accusations like this to sell newspaers. anyway, it doesn't have to
>be a pro bicyclist. most amateur racers are pretty dang fit, and the
>ones i know don't do performance-enhancing drugs of any kind.
That's because most amateur racers (myself included) race for the love
of
the sport and for the fitness/health benefits. Mucking about with
performance enhancing drugs takes a serious toll on your body, negating
the
health benefits of training. That's why I can't understand why so many
people claim Lance has to be doping. I seriously doubt that anyone who's
gone through what he's been through, and survived is going to risk
their
health for a sporting event... And from an amateur point of view, even
if
one were prone to doping, who could afford it? The *legal* nutritional
supplements are expensive enough. ~$40 for 20 or so servings of a
post-workout recovery drink, same for Revenge or Cytomax or similar
during-event sports drink, and if you're into herbal supplements (I'm
not)
it can get even more expensive. I can't even imagine what the *illegal*
performance enhancing drugs must cost.
As for the which is a better workout debate, I'll bring my heart rate
monitor when I get the new KLR off-road (waiting 'til after the
break-in,
don't wanna be restricted to 4k rpm). Though given my experience level
off-road on anything with a motor(nil), that's probably not a fair
comparison. Any cyclists/mx'ers have heart rate monitor and wanna put
this
debate to rest?
-Trevor
Visit the KLR650 archives at
http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650
Post message:
DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe:
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exercise (nklr) ignorance alert
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2001 11:12 am
by Guest
i still don't believe you. that is to say, not entirely. there's certainly
enough doping to make one cynical, and it's part of the reason i don't
follow racing as closely anymore (after 6 years of road racing europe and 10
years of mountain bike and cyclocross racing in the US), but i think plenty
of riders are clean with regards to illegal doping. i only take exception to
the "ALL" part of your claim.
mw
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Claes Borovac [mailto:Claes.Borovac@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 9:29 AM
> To: MWeaver@...;
DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [DSN_klr650] Re: exercise (NKLR) ignorance alert
>
>
> I have been in to cycling myself and know what is required. I am only
> talking about the top riders in Tour de France. That is all. In other
> words, all the riders shown on TV.
>
> Claes.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MWeaver@... [mailto:MWeaver@...]
> Sent: 31 July 2001 16:58
> To:
DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [DSN_klr650] Re: exercise (NKLR) ignorance alert
>
>
> --- In DSN_klr650@y..., "Claes Borovac" wrote:
> > Please do not use cycling for a comparison. They are ALL using
> drugs,
> > the cyclists that is.
>
> some are. some aren't. lots of people throw around baseless
> accusations like this to sell newspaers. anyway, it doesn't have to
> be a pro bicyclist. most amateur racers are pretty dang fit, and the
> ones i know don't do performance-enhancing drugs of any kind.
>
>
> > And by the way, if you took a cyclist and stuck him on a mx bike, he
> > would not stand a chance in hell either, their upperbodies are
> > completely underdeveloped, something very necessary for mx, right?
>
> cyclists come in all shapes and sizes. lots of them have at least the
> upper body development of a motocrosser, but that's not saying much.
> motocrossers usually seem to be fit, wiry, little guys. finesse and
> skill and endurance are probably more important than muscular
> strength.
>
> anyway, who cares? none of us is an elite mx-er or an elite bike
> racer. it is meaningless to me which is more "fit" (if you can even
> define that term satisfactorily). one thing is for sure, bicycling
> can increase your ability to enjoy riding your motorcycle in the dirt.
>
> -mark weaver
>
>
>
>
> Visit the KLR650 archives at
>
http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650
>
> Post message:
DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com
> Subscribe:
DSN_klr650-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Unsubscribe:
DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> List owner:
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>
> Support Dual Sport News by subscribing at:
>
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>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
exercise (nklr) ignorance alert
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2001 11:41 am
by Claes Borovac
Well, considering what they have found and that the stars continually
are caught I know what I believe. But, it is up to each individual to
have his or hers own idea about it. Certainly not all are cheating but
they are so many now that there, to me, is no honesty left in the sport,
on the really top level. Still enjoy my own cycling though.
Claes, a swede in Dublin.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Weaver [mailto:mweaver@...]
Sent: 01 August 2001 16:46
To: Claes Borovac;
DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [DSN_klr650] Re: exercise (NKLR) ignorance alert
i still don't believe you. that is to say, not entirely. there's
certainly
enough doping to make one cynical, and it's part of the reason i don't
follow racing as closely anymore (after 6 years of road racing europe
and 10
years of mountain bike and cyclocross racing in the US), but i think
plenty
of riders are clean with regards to illegal doping. i only take
exception to
the "ALL" part of your claim.
mw
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Claes Borovac [mailto:Claes.Borovac@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 9:29 AM
> To: MWeaver@...;
DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [DSN_klr650] Re: exercise (NKLR) ignorance alert
>
>
> I have been in to cycling myself and know what is required. I am only
> talking about the top riders in Tour de France. That is all. In other
> words, all the riders shown on TV.
>
> Claes.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MWeaver@... [mailto:MWeaver@...]
> Sent: 31 July 2001 16:58
> To:
DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [DSN_klr650] Re: exercise (NKLR) ignorance alert
>
>
> --- In DSN_klr650@y..., "Claes Borovac" wrote:
> > Please do not use cycling for a comparison. They are ALL using
> drugs,
> > the cyclists that is.
>
> some are. some aren't. lots of people throw around baseless
> accusations like this to sell newspaers. anyway, it doesn't have to
> be a pro bicyclist. most amateur racers are pretty dang fit, and the
> ones i know don't do performance-enhancing drugs of any kind.
>
>
> > And by the way, if you took a cyclist and stuck him on a mx bike, he
> > would not stand a chance in hell either, their upperbodies are
> > completely underdeveloped, something very necessary for mx, right?
>
> cyclists come in all shapes and sizes. lots of them have at least the
> upper body development of a motocrosser, but that's not saying much.
> motocrossers usually seem to be fit, wiry, little guys. finesse and
> skill and endurance are probably more important than muscular
> strength.
>
> anyway, who cares? none of us is an elite mx-er or an elite bike
> racer. it is meaningless to me which is more "fit" (if you can even
> define that term satisfactorily). one thing is for sure, bicycling
> can increase your ability to enjoy riding your motorcycle in the dirt.
>
> -mark weaver
>
>
>
>
> Visit the KLR650 archives at
>
http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650
>
> Post message:
DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com
> Subscribe:
DSN_klr650-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Unsubscribe:
DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> List owner:
DSN_klr650-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
> Support Dual Sport News by subscribing at:
>
http://www.dualsportnews.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
exercise (nklr) ignorance alert
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2001 5:35 pm
by rob
Great idea!!! I anxiously await your results!!
trevor.walton@... wrote:
> At 03:58 PM 7/31/01 +0000, you wrote:
> >--- In DSN_klr650@y..., "Claes Borovac" wrote:
> > > Please do not use cycling for a comparison. They are ALL using
> >drugs,
> > > the cyclists that is.
> >
> >some are. some aren't. lots of people throw around baseless
> >accusations like this to sell newspaers. anyway, it doesn't have to
> >be a pro bicyclist. most amateur racers are pretty dang fit, and the
> >ones i know don't do performance-enhancing drugs of any kind.
>
> That's because most amateur racers (myself included) race for the love of
> the sport and for the fitness/health benefits. Mucking about with
> performance enhancing drugs takes a serious toll on your body, negating the
> health benefits of training. That's why I can't understand why so many
> people claim Lance has to be doping. I seriously doubt that anyone who's
> gone through what he's been through, and survived is going to risk their
> health for a sporting event... And from an amateur point of view, even if
> one were prone to doping, who could afford it? The *legal* nutritional
> supplements are expensive enough. ~$40 for 20 or so servings of a
> post-workout recovery drink, same for Revenge or Cytomax or similar
> during-event sports drink, and if you're into herbal supplements (I'm not)
> it can get even more expensive. I can't even imagine what the *illegal*
> performance enhancing drugs must cost.
>
> As for the which is a better workout debate, I'll bring my heart rate
> monitor when I get the new KLR off-road (waiting 'til after the break-in,
> don't wanna be restricted to 4k rpm). Though given my experience level
> off-road on anything with a motor(nil), that's probably not a fair
> comparison. Any cyclists/mx'ers have heart rate monitor and wanna put this
> debate to rest?
>
> -Trevor
>
> Visit the KLR650 archives at
>
http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650
>
> Post message:
DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com
> Subscribe:
DSN_klr650-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Unsubscribe:
DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> List owner:
DSN_klr650-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
> Support Dual Sport News by subscribing at:
>
http://www.dualsportnews.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
exercise (nklr) ignorance alert
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2001 5:44 pm
by rob
Auch, Where did you get that bit of wrong information? And the key to good
exercise is a target heart (say 80% of your max {220 - your age = max HR}
sustained for a length of time). Cycling is ideal for this kind of training.
Claes Borovac wrote:
> Auch, the heart rate will not decide which is the most exhausting
> excercise unfortunately. For example, you have a higher max pulse when
> running compared to when bicycling. So it is a no go.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: trevor.walton@... [mailto:trevor.walton@...]
> Sent: 01 August 2001 05:48
> To:
DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] Re: exercise (NKLR) ignorance alert
>
> At 03:58 PM 7/31/01 +0000, you wrote:
> >--- In DSN_klr650@y..., "Claes Borovac" wrote:
> > > Please do not use cycling for a comparison. They are ALL using
> >drugs,
> > > the cyclists that is.
> >
> >some are. some aren't. lots of people throw around baseless
> >accusations like this to sell newspaers. anyway, it doesn't have to
> >be a pro bicyclist. most amateur racers are pretty dang fit, and the
> >ones i know don't do performance-enhancing drugs of any kind.
>
> That's because most amateur racers (myself included) race for the love
> of
> the sport and for the fitness/health benefits. Mucking about with
> performance enhancing drugs takes a serious toll on your body, negating
> the
> health benefits of training. That's why I can't understand why so many
> people claim Lance has to be doping. I seriously doubt that anyone who's
>
> gone through what he's been through, and survived is going to risk
> their
> health for a sporting event... And from an amateur point of view, even
> if
> one were prone to doping, who could afford it? The *legal* nutritional
> supplements are expensive enough. ~$40 for 20 or so servings of a
> post-workout recovery drink, same for Revenge or Cytomax or similar
> during-event sports drink, and if you're into herbal supplements (I'm
> not)
> it can get even more expensive. I can't even imagine what the *illegal*
> performance enhancing drugs must cost.
>
> As for the which is a better workout debate, I'll bring my heart rate
> monitor when I get the new KLR off-road (waiting 'til after the
> break-in,
> don't wanna be restricted to 4k rpm). Though given my experience level
> off-road on anything with a motor(nil), that's probably not a fair
> comparison. Any cyclists/mx'ers have heart rate monitor and wanna put
> this
> debate to rest?
>
> -Trevor
>
> Visit the KLR650 archives at
>
http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650
>
> Post message:
DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com
> Subscribe:
DSN_klr650-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Unsubscribe:
DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> List owner:
DSN_klr650-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
> Support Dual Sport News by subscribing at:
>
http://www.dualsportnews.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> Visit the KLR650 archives at
>
http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650
>
> Post message:
DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com
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>
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exercise (nklr) ignorance alert
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2001 5:59 pm
by rob
Ya know how your teachers taught you that when taking a multiple choice test,
that choices like "all" and "none" were probably false....well, so is your
logic when you say there is "no honesty left in the sport". I know there are
cheaters. Many of them are told by their coaches to take stuff if they want
to climb better or have quicker recovery so they do it. There is alot of
blame to go around, doesn't make it right - the way it is. Everyone is trying
to get an edge. Lance's training methods may be very unconventional, doesn't
make them illegal. IMHO
Claes Borovac wrote:
> Well, considering what they have found and that the stars continually
> are caught I know what I believe. But, it is up to each individual to
> have his or hers own idea about it. Certainly not all are cheating but
> they are so many now that there, to me, is no honesty left in the sport,
> on the really top level. Still enjoy my own cycling though.
>
> Claes, a swede in Dublin.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Weaver [mailto:mweaver@...]
> Sent: 01 August 2001 16:46
> To: Claes Borovac;
DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [DSN_klr650] Re: exercise (NKLR) ignorance alert
>
> i still don't believe you. that is to say, not entirely. there's
> certainly
> enough doping to make one cynical, and it's part of the reason i don't
> follow racing as closely anymore (after 6 years of road racing europe
> and 10
> years of mountain bike and cyclocross racing in the US), but i think
> plenty
> of riders are clean with regards to illegal doping. i only take
> exception to
> the "ALL" part of your claim.
> mw
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Claes Borovac [mailto:Claes.Borovac@...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 9:29 AM
> > To: MWeaver@...;
DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [DSN_klr650] Re: exercise (NKLR) ignorance alert
> >
> >
> > I have been in to cycling myself and know what is required. I am only
> > talking about the top riders in Tour de France. That is all. In other
> > words, all the riders shown on TV.
> >
> > Claes.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: MWeaver@... [mailto:MWeaver@...]
> > Sent: 31 July 2001 16:58
> > To:
DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [DSN_klr650] Re: exercise (NKLR) ignorance alert
> >
> >
> > --- In DSN_klr650@y..., "Claes Borovac" wrote:
> > > Please do not use cycling for a comparison. They are ALL using
> > drugs,
> > > the cyclists that is.
> >
> > some are. some aren't. lots of people throw around baseless
> > accusations like this to sell newspaers. anyway, it doesn't have to
> > be a pro bicyclist. most amateur racers are pretty dang fit, and the
> > ones i know don't do performance-enhancing drugs of any kind.
> >
> >
> > > And by the way, if you took a cyclist and stuck him on a mx bike, he
> > > would not stand a chance in hell either, their upperbodies are
> > > completely underdeveloped, something very necessary for mx, right?
> >
> > cyclists come in all shapes and sizes. lots of them have at least the
> > upper body development of a motocrosser, but that's not saying much.
> > motocrossers usually seem to be fit, wiry, little guys. finesse and
> > skill and endurance are probably more important than muscular
> > strength.
> >
> > anyway, who cares? none of us is an elite mx-er or an elite bike
> > racer. it is meaningless to me which is more "fit" (if you can even
> > define that term satisfactorily). one thing is for sure, bicycling
> > can increase your ability to enjoy riding your motorcycle in the dirt.
> >
> > -mark weaver
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Visit the KLR650 archives at
> >
http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650
> >
> > Post message:
DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com
> > Subscribe:
DSN_klr650-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Unsubscribe:
DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > List owner:
DSN_klr650-owner@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Support Dual Sport News by subscribing at:
> >
http://www.dualsportnews.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
> Visit the KLR650 archives at
>
http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650
>
> Post message:
DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com
> Subscribe:
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exercise (nklr) ignorance alert
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2001 5:13 am
by Claes Borovac
Well, as I said, to me there is no honesty left. I have no clue of
Lances training methods, but I would be very surprised if he turned out
to be clean, just my opinion. Same thing in most other places though.
Look at athletics and so on.
Claes, a swede in Dublin.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob [mailto:rheywoo1@...]
Sent: 01 August 2001 22:43
To: Claes Borovac
Cc: Mark Weaver;
DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] Re: exercise (NKLR) ignorance alert
Ya know how your teachers taught you that when taking a multiple choice
test,
that choices like "all" and "none" were probably false....well, so is
your
logic when you say there is "no honesty left in the sport". I know
there are
cheaters. Many of them are told by their coaches to take stuff if they
want
to climb better or have quicker recovery so they do it. There is alot of
blame to go around, doesn't make it right - the way it is. Everyone is
trying
to get an edge. Lance's training methods may be very unconventional,
doesn't
make them illegal. IMHO
Claes Borovac wrote:
> Well, considering what they have found and that the stars continually
> are caught I know what I believe. But, it is up to each individual to
> have his or hers own idea about it. Certainly not all are cheating but
> they are so many now that there, to me, is no honesty left in the
sport,
> on the really top level. Still enjoy my own cycling though.
>
> Claes, a swede in Dublin.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Weaver [mailto:mweaver@...]
> Sent: 01 August 2001 16:46
> To: Claes Borovac;
DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [DSN_klr650] Re: exercise (NKLR) ignorance alert
>
> i still don't believe you. that is to say, not entirely. there's
> certainly
> enough doping to make one cynical, and it's part of the reason i don't
> follow racing as closely anymore (after 6 years of road racing europe
> and 10
> years of mountain bike and cyclocross racing in the US), but i think
> plenty
> of riders are clean with regards to illegal doping. i only take
> exception to
> the "ALL" part of your claim.
> mw
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Claes Borovac [mailto:Claes.Borovac@...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 9:29 AM
> > To: MWeaver@...;
DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [DSN_klr650] Re: exercise (NKLR) ignorance alert
> >
> >
> > I have been in to cycling myself and know what is required. I am
only
> > talking about the top riders in Tour de France. That is all. In
other
> > words, all the riders shown on TV.
> >
> > Claes.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: MWeaver@... [mailto:MWeaver@...]
> > Sent: 31 July 2001 16:58
> > To:
DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [DSN_klr650] Re: exercise (NKLR) ignorance alert
> >
> >
> > --- In DSN_klr650@y..., "Claes Borovac" wrote:
> > > Please do not use cycling for a comparison. They are ALL using
> > drugs,
> > > the cyclists that is.
> >
> > some are. some aren't. lots of people throw around baseless
> > accusations like this to sell newspaers. anyway, it doesn't have to
> > be a pro bicyclist. most amateur racers are pretty dang fit, and the
> > ones i know don't do performance-enhancing drugs of any kind.
> >
> >
> > > And by the way, if you took a cyclist and stuck him on a mx bike,
he
> > > would not stand a chance in hell either, their upperbodies are
> > > completely underdeveloped, something very necessary for mx, right?
> >
> > cyclists come in all shapes and sizes. lots of them have at least
the
> > upper body development of a motocrosser, but that's not saying much.
> > motocrossers usually seem to be fit, wiry, little guys. finesse and
> > skill and endurance are probably more important than muscular
> > strength.
> >
> > anyway, who cares? none of us is an elite mx-er or an elite bike
> > racer. it is meaningless to me which is more "fit" (if you can even
> > define that term satisfactorily). one thing is for sure, bicycling
> > can increase your ability to enjoy riding your motorcycle in the
dirt.
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