2008 - impressed - especially the motor

DSN_KLR650
revmaaatin
Posts: 1727
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2003 3:07 pm

tire change kit?

Post by revmaaatin » Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:30 pm

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "E.L. Green" wrote:
> > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "revmaaatin" wrote: > > > After reading all the post/response to your initial question, I
would
> > like to offer--the best thing you can purchase for your tire
repair kit
> > is to install HD tubes in your tires before having a flat. > > One thing I will point out is that running an HD tube in your rear > tire at high speeds on the highway will cause a serious reduction in > your tire life due to the higher tire temperatures caused by the > heavier tube. For highway use, I run an HD tube in my front tire > (*not* a super-HD tube though, that tends to cause instability in my > experience), and a regular tube in the rear. A flat in the rear
isn't
> as bad as a flat in the front -- a flat in the rear will make the
bike
> a bit shakey but give you time to slow to a halt, a flat in the
front
> will put you down. >
Hi Eric, I did not [intuitively] know that the HD tube causes reduction in tire life. Not doubting your word, and realize that higher temps does cause reduced tire life etc. Is your 'thesis' empirical data, seat of the pants, local list wisdom? Is there something to read more about this? Seems to me I vaguely remember that one of the benefits of tubeless is reduced tire temp. Does that sound right to you? Is it a logical leap that the heavier tube, retains heat etc and thus reduces tire life due to hotter tires? I think it is fasteddie Campbell that is getting 2x the tire life from a K270 that I am getting.... But that might be because his riding style is much more (cough) subdued and his tires just don't get as hot! LIST: Perhaps those on the list could comment yes/no that they believe their better tire mileage is also a factor of std. weight tubes. If I also recall, some ~90% of the flats occur in the rear--due to the front tire kicks up the object, the rear tire 'receives' it. All things equal; Personally, I would rather replace a tire early for wear, than change flats between tire replacements. revmaaatin.

E.L. Green
Posts: 639
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:36 am

tire change kit?

Post by E.L. Green » Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:53 pm

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "revmaaatin" wrote:
> --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "E.L. Green" wrote: > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "revmaaatin" wrote: > > One thing I will point out is that running an HD tube in your rear > > tire at high speeds on the highway will cause a serious reduction in > > your tire life due to the higher tire temperatures caused by the > > heavier tube. > Is your 'thesis' empirical data, seat of the pants, local list > wisdom? Is there something to read more about this?
Tire temperature data is definitely empirical. With super-heavy-duty tubes in the back, the tube gets so hot at high speeds that it actually *melts*. A Conti TKC-80 rear lasted barely 4,000 miles with the super-heavy-duty tube in it. With a regular tube in it, its replacement lasted over 6,000 miles.
> Seems to me I vaguely remember that one of the benefits of tubeless > is reduced tire temp. Does that sound right to you?
That is correct, and that comes from the tire manufacturers themselves (when explaining why they do not recommend running tubes in tubeless tires unless absolutely necessary because of wire rims).
> Is it a logical leap that the heavier tube, retains heat etc and thus > reduces tire life due to hotter tires?
Not a logical leap at all. It agrees with the reported and observed data.
> If I also recall, some ~90% of the flats occur in the rear--due to > the front tire kicks up the object, the rear tire 'receives' it.
I would say you also have to consider the tire itself. For example, a TKC-80 has a very stout carcass that will retain a lot of heat compared to, say, a Kenda 270 that has a very flimsy carcass. In a K270 I'd probably use heavy-duty tubes front and rear because the flimsy carcass needs the extra rubber to help prevent flats. I personally have never had a flat with or without a heavy duty tube in the rear, but I haven't run flimsy tires like the K270 for a while and when I did, I ran heavy duty tubes front and rear.
> All things equal; Personally, I would rather replace a tire early for > wear, than change flats between tire replacements.
I guess it depends on how far you're going. If you're riding within a few hundred miles of home with cheap tires like a Kenda 270, you're probably correct. If you're riding thousands of miles from home with a more expensive tire like a TKC-80 or Avon Gripster, you want all the tire life you can get, because changing tires in the middle of a multi-thousand-mile trip is a PITA. And if you're doing an expensive tire like a TKC-80 you might want to extend its tire life simply because the bloody thing costs over $150! Luckily TKC-80's are *stout*, and thus resist flats a lot better than something like a K270, or I'd have a dilemma for sure. -E

E.L. Green
Posts: 639
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:36 am

2008 - impressed - especially the motor

Post by E.L. Green » Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:23 pm

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Arden Kysely" wrote:
> I've ridden the '08 and a legacy model with a hotter headlight bulb. > There's really no comparison between more light coming from the small, > dated reflector and lens on the pre-2008 bikes and the wide, usable > spread of bright light generated by the twin headlights on the 2008.
Indeed. Rectangular is the worst possible shape for a headlight. Even with a bright 100 watt headlight bulb, the beam is far too narrow and, well, rectangular, to make it easy to go around curves at night. One night I was going over Townes Pass in Death Valley National Park to get to the Emigrant Campground to sleep for the night. I basically had to park at the rear fender of a Toyota car going over the pass in order to be able to see where I was going -- even with the 100 watt bulb, the beam pattern was simply too restricted for me to be able to see to get around all those switchbacks. In fact, I was going about 10mph when the Toyota overtook me (luckily in an area where there was a shoulder I could pull off on) because any faster, I would have been riding on air, followed by hundreds of feet down. Because I simply *COULD NOT SEE*. On my Jeep, I replaced the dated sealed beam headlights with Hella E-spec H4 lights w/100 watt bulbs, and removed the restrictors from the foglamps so they'd put more light out to the sides. That's a great setup for being able to handle mountain switchbacks at night, and not just because of having more light on the road -- it's the *pattern* of the light that makes it so useful (especially with the fogs lighting up the sides of the road). Unfortunately there is literally nothing you can do to a rectangular headlight to get a useful flood of light onto the road :-(. _E

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