nklr : talks

[Scott Reitor]

I originally sent this to just Jud, as I did not think it necessary for everyone to see it. Jud has sent me a private email telling me otherwise. That being the case, I have pasted my exact email to him on this topic below. Jud, If you are going to insult someone's point of view or call bullshit, be sure you know how to use your $10.00 words. Cognitive dissonance is the state of a person then holding two contradictory beliefs at the same time, such as thinking 'the sky is blue' while also thinking 'the sky is not blue.' Your statement is therefore nonsense. Your second error is to belittle an opposing point of view by citing his use of 'spurious' anecdotes one sentence after you say "your view of the Canadian health care system fails to comport with that of the overwhelming majority of Canadians I have spoken to" which itself is anecdotal. That makes you a hypocrite at best or again, merely reveals your lack of a firm grasp on the words you use to try to sound intelligent. You then conclude with criticizing the point of view of your opposition because he made a subjective observation which you call bullshit on. The fact is that no opinion is bullshit...only alleged facts can be bullshit and opinions, just like yours, are nothing more than subjective beliefs. In short, go ahead and speak your opinion if you want to, but don't try to insult someone with words you cannot even use properly and an underdeveloped grasp of how to hold an intelligent debate. Scott

On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Jud wrote: A bit of cognitive dissonance here, as your view of the Canadian health care system fails to comport with that of the overwhelming majority of Canadians I have spoken to. It's a favorite strategy to falsely malign the Canadian and various health care systems with spurious anecdotes. You give yourself away when you point to American health care as the best. In short, I call bullsh!t. --- In DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com, "fasteddiecopeman" wrote: > > Stu, > As a Canadian, I'd like to reply to one of your points: > > > Ask yourself this: If we had a comprehensive health care system in place, would emergency rooms still be used for health concerns that should be handled (or more likely totally avoided) at routine doctor's visits? > > > > The answer is: YES! > > We've had socialized health care here since the '60s. I've been in the emergency room with broken bones (mine or buddies) several times and had to wait behind kids with runny noses, and other 'maladies' that COULD HAVE (and SHOULD HAVE) been covered by a visit to a clinic or doctor's office! > > The wait for an MRI here is unconscionably long (can't waste money on the latest breakthroughs...); if you require, for instance, a knee replacement, you FIRST go on a waiting list to SEE a specialist (a months long wait!), then, IF it's deemed to be necessary, another up-to-several-YEARS wait for the operation. > > Remember Palin's "death-panels"? We have them here in Canada - surgeons that COULD do surgeries are not allowed to even tho' O.R.s are available, due monetary concerns. People in THIS country routinely DIE waiting for surgeries that are required. > > The US has the BEST health care in the world. Why would you wish to let the government (which CAN NOT even run the Post Office, Social Security or Medicare) take over YOUR health? > > As a Canadian I would welcome with open arms the ability to become a US citizen and partake in YOUR health system! > > The Canadian system is on the verge of bankruptcy (costs me and every other taxpayer here between 30 and 35% of our income taxes, and going nowhere but UP. How's that for "FREE" health care?) > > Good luck. > > My 2cents (Canadian).... > > Ed >

[Tengai Mark Van Horn]

Attachments :

[img]cid:p06002011c7bb1f8ed3c6@[192.168.1.47].1.0[/img]

[Mike Frey]

Attachments : Might as well make it fun...... [img]cid:part1.03010208.04080801@dejazzd.com[/img] I think the doohickey broke on that guy's ride. Tengai Mark Van Horn wrote:

[roncriswell@sbcglobal.net]

Looks like that pony needs healthcare. Criswell Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 8, 2010, at 3:50 PM, Mike Frey wrote:

  Might as well make it fun...... I think the doohickey broke on that guy's ride. Tengai Mark Van Horn wrote:

[Jud]

Scott, I never said or even suggested that it was necessary for anyone to see this post, which is totally inappropriate for this forum, only that if you were going to insult me, you should have the balls to do it publicly. Thanks for sharing.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Scott Reitor wrote: > > I originally sent this to just Jud, as I did not think it necessary for > everyone to see it. Jud has sent me a private email telling me otherwise. > That being the case, I have pasted my exact email to him on this topic > below. > > > > Jud, > > If you are going to insult someone's point of view or call bullshit, be sure > you know how to use your $10.00 words. Cognitive dissonance is the state of > a person then holding two contradictory beliefs at the same time, such as > thinking 'the sky is blue' while also thinking 'the sky is not blue.' Your > statement is therefore nonsense. > > Your second error is to belittle an opposing point of view by citing his use > of 'spurious' anecdotes one sentence after you say "your view of the > Canadian health care system fails to comport with that of the overwhelming > majority of Canadians I have spoken to" which itself is anecdotal. That > makes you a hypocrite at best or again, merely reveals your lack of a firm > grasp on the words you use to try to sound intelligent. > > You then conclude with criticizing the point of view of your opposition > because he made a subjective observation which you call bullshit on. The > fact is that no opinion is bullshit...only alleged facts can be bullshit and > opinions, just like yours, are nothing more than subjective beliefs. > > In short, go ahead and speak your opinion if you want to, but don't try to > insult someone with words you cannot even use properly and an underdeveloped > grasp of how to hold an intelligent debate. > > Scott > > On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Jud wrote: > > > > > > > A bit of cognitive dissonance here, as your view of the Canadian health > > care system fails to comport with that of the overwhelming majority of > > Canadians I have spoken to. It's a favorite strategy to falsely malign the > > Canadian and various health care systems with spurious anecdotes. You give > > yourself away when you point to American health care as the best. In short, > > I call bullsh!t. > > > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com , > > "fasteddiecopeman" wrote: > > > > > > Stu, > > > As a Canadian, I'd like to reply to one of your points: > > > > > > > Ask yourself this: If we had a comprehensive health care system in > > place, would emergency rooms still be used for health concerns that should > > be handled (or more likely totally avoided) at routine doctor's visits? > > > > > > > > > > The answer is: YES! > > > > > > We've had socialized health care here since the '60s. I've been in the > > emergency room with broken bones (mine or buddies) several times and had to > > wait behind kids with runny noses, and other 'maladies' that COULD HAVE (and > > SHOULD HAVE) been covered by a visit to a clinic or doctor's office! > > > > > > The wait for an MRI here is unconscionably long (can't waste money on the > > latest breakthroughs...); if you require, for instance, a knee replacement, > > you FIRST go on a waiting list to SEE a specialist (a months long wait!), > > then, IF it's deemed to be necessary, another up-to-several-YEARS wait for > > the operation. > > > > > > Remember Palin's "death-panels"? We have them here in Canada - surgeons > > that COULD do surgeries are not allowed to even tho' O.R.s are available, > > due monetary concerns. People in THIS country routinely DIE waiting for > > surgeries that are required. > > > > > > The US has the BEST health care in the world. Why would you wish to let > > the government (which CAN NOT even run the Post Office, Social Security or > > Medicare) take over YOUR health? > > > > > > As a Canadian I would welcome with open arms the ability to become a US > > citizen and partake in YOUR health system! > > > > > > The Canadian system is on the verge of bankruptcy (costs me and every > > other taxpayer here between 30 and 35% of our income taxes, and going > > nowhere but UP. How's that for "FREE" health care?) > > > > > > Good luck. > > > > > > My 2cents (Canadian).... > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > > > > >

[Marat Valegh]

[Thomas Komjathy]

Then send us a list of these countries so we can look them up and study their system, I'm very open minded as long as I have something to consider in the debate, decision, etc. TK [b]From:[/b] Marat Valegh [b]To:[/b] Jud ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Mon, March 8, 2010 11:02:18 PM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare...   Hi there,   Not the first post I thought I would write, but insults (whether intelligent or not) aside, the US health care system is by far one of the worst there is in the civilized world. Speaking from experience, it is expensive and by the time the doctors find out what is wrong with you, you will either heal on your own or die from whatever it is you have.  I have worked and lived outside the states for half my life and have seen better health care and more educated doctors in the slums of Eastern Block countries no one ever heard of. I have not been blessed with good health and have been at more hospitals then there are words in the English language. Here in the States the system needs change period. Just my two cents, is all.   Sorry if this insults any hardened media brainwashed American patriot out there.   Marat  [b]From:[/b] Jud [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Mon, March 8, 2010 6:19:03 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare.. .   Scott, I never said or even suggested that it was necessary for anyone to see this post, which is totally inappropriate for this forum, only that if you were going to insult me, you should have the balls to do it publicly. Thanks for sharing.

--- In DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com, Scott Reitor wrote: > > I originally sent this to just Jud, as I did not think it necessary for > everyone to see it. Jud has sent me a private email telling me otherwise. > That being the case, I have pasted my exact email to him on this topic > below. > > > > Jud, > > If you are going to insult someone's point of view or call bullshit, be sure > you know how to use your $10.00 words. Cognitive dissonance is the state of > a person then holding two contradictory beliefs at the same time, such as > thinking 'the sky is blue' while also thinking 'the sky is not blue.' Your > statement is therefore nonsense. > > Your second error is to belittle an opposing point of view by citing his use > of 'spurious' anecdotes one sentence after you say "your view of the > Canadian health care system fails to comport with that of the overwhelming > majority of Canadians I have spoken to" which itself is anecdotal. That > makes you a hypocrite at best or again, merely reveals your lack of a firm > grasp on the words you use to try to sound intelligent. > > You then conclude with criticizing the point of view of your opposition > because he made a subjective observation which you call bullshit on. The > fact is that no opinion is bullshit...only alleged facts can be bullshit and > opinions, just like yours, are nothing more than subjective beliefs. > > In short, go ahead and speak your opinion if you want to, but don't try to > insult someone with words you cannot even use properly and an underdeveloped > grasp of how to hold an intelligent debate. > > Scott > > On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Jud wrote: > > > > > > > A bit of cognitive dissonance here, as your view of the Canadian health > > care system fails to comport with that of the overwhelming majority of > > Canadians I have spoken to. It's a favorite strategy to falsely malign the > > Canadian and various health care systems with spurious anecdotes. You give > > yourself away when you point to American health care as the best. In short, > > I call bullsh!t. > > > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com , > > "fasteddiecopeman" wrote: > > > > > > Stu, > > > As a Canadian, I'd like to reply to one of your points: > > > > > > > Ask yourself this: If we had a comprehensive health care system in > > place, would emergency rooms still be used for health concerns that should > > be handled (or more likely totally avoided) at routine doctor's visits? > > > > > > > > > > The answer is: YES! > > > > > > We've had socialized health care here since the '60s. I've been in the > > emergency room with broken bones (mine or buddies) several times and had to > > wait behind kids with runny noses, and other 'maladies' that COULD HAVE (and > > SHOULD HAVE) been covered by a visit to a clinic or doctor's office! > > > > > > The wait for an MRI here is unconscionably long (can't waste money on the > > latest breakthroughs. ..); if you require, for instance, a knee replacement, > > you FIRST go on a waiting list to SEE a specialist (a months long wait!), > > then, IF it's deemed to be necessary, another up-to-several- YEARS wait for > > the operation. > > > > > > Remember Palin's "death-panels" ? We have them here in Canada - surgeons > > that COULD do surgeries are not allowed to even tho' O.R.s are available, > > due monetary concerns. People in THIS country routinely DIE waiting for > > surgeries that are required. > > > > > > The US has the BEST health care in the world. Why would you wish to let > > the government (which CAN NOT even run the Post Office, Social Security or > > Medicare) take over YOUR health? > > > > > > As a Canadian I would welcome with open arms the ability to become a US > > citizen and partake in YOUR health system! > > > > > > The Canadian system is on the verge of bankruptcy (costs me and every > > other taxpayer here between 30 and 35% of our income taxes, and going > > nowhere but UP. How's that for "FREE" health care?) > > > > > > Good luck. > > > > > > My 2cents (Canadian).. .. > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > > > > >

[Charles]

Attachments : #ygrps-yiv-844857338 .ygrps-yiv-844857338ygrp-photo-title { TEXT-ALIGN:center;WIDTH:75px;HEIGHT:15px;CLEAR:both;FONT-SIZE:smaller;OVERFLOW:hidden;} #ygrps-yiv-844857338 DIV.ygrps-yiv-844857338ygrp-photo { BORDER-BOTTOM:black 1px solid;BORDER-LEFT:black 1px solid;BACKGROUND-COLOR:white;WIDTH:62px;BACKGROUND-REPEAT:no-repeat;BACKGROUND-POSITION:center 50%;HEIGHT:62px;BORDER-TOP:black 1px solid;BORDER-RIGHT:black 1px solid;} #ygrps-yiv-844857338 DIV.ygrps-yiv-844857338photo-title A { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-844857338 DIV.ygrps-yiv-844857338photo-title A:active { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-844857338 DIV.ygrps-yiv-844857338photo-title A:hover { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-844857338 DIV.ygrps-yiv-844857338photo-title A:visited { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-844857338 DIV.ygrps-yiv-844857338attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-844857338attach-row { CLEAR:both;} #ygrps-yiv-844857338 DIV.ygrps-yiv-844857338attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-844857338attach-row DIV { FLOAT:left;} #ygrps-yiv-844857338 P { PADDING-BOTTOM:3px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;CLEAR:both;OVERFLOW:hidden;PADDING-TOP:15px;} #ygrps-yiv-844857338 DIV.ygrps-yiv-844857338ygrp-file { WIDTH:30px;} #ygrps-yiv-844857338 DIV.ygrps-yiv-844857338attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-844857338attach-row DIV DIV A { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-844857338 DIV.ygrps-yiv-844857338attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-844857338attach-row DIV DIV SPAN { FONT-WEIGHT:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-844857338 DIV.ygrps-yiv-844857338ygrp-file-title { FONT-WEIGHT:bold;} Well, I WAS going to stay out of this one.   I am on plenty of lists that get political, and I am really getting burned out on politics...  I am not an Obomination fan, nor was I a Bush The Second fan, nor was I a Klinton fan, and I didn't care much for Bush The First, either.  I did like Reagan, but Carter and Ford didn't do much for me, either.  This is not a R vs D thing.   We could use some independents........   And, I'll admit, I have no "facts", just my own personal observation.  But, the observation.........   I have an autistic son.  He's almost 12 years old now.  A few years back, some of his other medical issues caused us to take a few trips to the Cleveland Clinic;  a very well respected medical institution, in Cleveland Ohio, of course.   During these trips, we had stayed at the Ronald McDonald house, as they are all about helping children in these situations.   My observations at the RM house and at the clinic:  There were at least as many, if not more, foreign families/patients there for medical diagnosis/treatment than there were Americans.  I met people from various countries, from South America to Saudi Arabia, etc.   These people did not go to Canada for treatment; they also did not go to England, Australia, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Spain, Sweden,; or any other of the many countries with socialized (or non-socialized) medicine.  They came to the USA.  I have a hard time believing they came to the USA for WORSE medical care than they could receive elsewhere.  As Monty Python was fond of saying, "That's just silly".   From what I have read/heard in recent years, the two best countries for medical research and treatment are the USA and Israel.  YMMV.  But, I haven't yet seen a "government program" that didn't waste money, and when you consider that Social Security is basically bankrupt, and the US Post Office can't turn a profit, I don't have a lot of faith that they can make the medical system work, either.  We are only so many trillion in debt that it is mathematically impossible to pay; how can we possibly trust this to work?   And, finally, if you actually read the US Constitution, exactly WHERE in that document does it give the government the legal authority to force me or you to pay for anything?  Or, better yet, where does it give the government the authority take control of an entire industry?  If you can please point out the section and clause, from the actual text of the US Constitution, I'd love to read it.....  Not that that document means much to those in Washington these days.    Anyway, I'll go back to dreaming of warmer days, and my ebony 2009 KLR. Chuck F. NE PA    

----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] klrsisfiddy@... [b]To:[/b] marat713@... ; judjonzz@... ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Tuesday, March 09, 2010 12:18 AM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare... Then send us a list of these countries so we can look them up and study their system, I'm very open minded as long as I have something to consider in the debate, decision, etc. TK [b]From:[/b] Marat Valegh [b]To:[/b] Jud ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Mon, March 8, 2010 11:02:18 PM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare...   Hi there,   Not the first post I thought I would write, but insults (whether intelligent or not) aside, the US health care system is by far one of the worst there is in the civilized world. Speaking from experience, it is expensive and by the time the doctors find out what is wrong with you, you will either heal on your own or die from whatever it is you have.  I have worked and lived outside the states for half my life and have seen better health care and more educated doctors in the slums of Eastern Block countries no one ever heard of. I have not been blessed with good health and have been at more hospitals then there are words in the English language. Here in the States the system needs change period. Just my two cents, is all.   Sorry if this insults any hardened media brainwashed American patriot out there.   Marat  [b]From:[/b] Jud [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Mon, March 8, 2010 6:19:03 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare.. .   Scott, I never said or even suggested that it was necessary for anyone to see this post, which is totally inappropriate for this forum, only that if you were going to insult me, you should have the balls to do it publicly. Thanks for sharing. --- In DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com, Scott Reitor wrote: > > I originally sent this to just Jud, as I did not think it necessary for > everyone to see it. Jud has sent me a private email telling me otherwise. > That being the case, I have pasted my exact email to him on this topic > below. > > > > Jud, > > If you are going to insult someone's point of view or call bullshit, be sure > you know how to use your $10.00 words. Cognitive dissonance is the state of > a person then holding two contradictory beliefs at the same time, such as > thinking 'the sky is blue' while also thinking 'the sky is not blue.' Your > statement is therefore nonsense. > > Your second error is to belittle an opposing point of view by citing his use > of 'spurious' anecdotes one sentence after you say "your view of the > Canadian health care system fails to comport with that of the overwhelming > majority of Canadians I have spoken to" which itself is anecdotal. That > makes you a hypocrite at best or again, merely reveals your lack of a firm > grasp on the words you use to try to sound intelligent. > > You then conclude with criticizing the point of view of your opposition > because he made a subjective observation which you call bullshit on. The > fact is that no opinion is bullshit...only alleged facts can be bullshit and > opinions, just like yours, are nothing more than subjective beliefs. > > In short, go ahead and speak your opinion if you want to, but don't try to > insult someone with words you cannot even use properly and an underdeveloped > grasp of how to hold an intelligent debate. > > Scott > > On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Jud wrote: > > > > > > > A bit of cognitive dissonance here, as your view of the Canadian health > > care system fails to comport with that of the overwhelming majority of > > Canadians I have spoken to. It's a favorite strategy to falsely malign the > > Canadian and various health care systems with spurious anecdotes. You give > > yourself away when you point to American health care as the best. In short, > > I call bullsh!t. > > > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com , > > "fasteddiecopeman" wrote: > > > > > > Stu, > > > As a Canadian, I'd like to reply to one of your points: > > > > > > > Ask yourself this: If we had a comprehensive health care system in > > place, would emergency rooms still be used for health concerns that should > > be handled (or more likely totally avoided) at routine doctor's visits? > > > > > > > > > > The answer is: YES! > > > > > > We've had socialized health care here since the '60s. I've been in the > > emergency room with broken bones (mine or buddies) several times and had to > > wait behind kids with runny noses, and other 'maladies' that COULD HAVE (and > > SHOULD HAVE) been covered by a visit to a clinic or doctor's office! > > > > > > The wait for an MRI here is unconscionably long (can't waste money on the > > latest breakthroughs. ..); if you require, for instance, a knee replacement, > > you FIRST go on a waiting list to SEE a specialist (a months long wait!), > > then, IF it's deemed to be necessary, another up-to-several- YEARS wait for > > the operation. > > > > > > Remember Palin's "death-panels" ? We have them here in Canada - surgeons > > that COULD do surgeries are not allowed to even tho' O.R.s are available, > > due monetary concerns. People in THIS country routinely DIE waiting for > > surgeries that are required. > > > > > > The US has the BEST health care in the world. Why would you wish to let > > the government (which CAN NOT even run the Post Office, Social Security or > > Medicare) take over YOUR health? > > > > > > As a Canadian I would welcome with open arms the ability to become a US > > citizen and partake in YOUR health system! > > > > > > The Canadian system is on the verge of bankruptcy (costs me and every > > other taxpayer here between 30 and 35% of our income taxes, and going > > nowhere but UP. How's that for "FREE" health care?) > > > > > > Good luck. > > > > > > My 2cents (Canadian).. .. > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > > > > >

No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2729 - Release Date: 03/07/10 14:34:00

[albatrossklr]

I'll not weigh-in with an opinion........... I will ask that each of you who expressed an opinion spend as much energy gaining a good understanding of the position every candidate in your part of the country (D sol Luc, cette page est de US concentr ) supports and how they have voted over the years on healthcare bills at the federal & state levels. Then, get out and vote and get as many people as you can to vote for the candidate you pick. We spend a lot of time pontificating and should spend as much time helping make the decision by voting. albatross...... flying away

[Bob K]

Jesus! Are you trying to run people off here? Who moderates this Forum? Drop the Obama bullshit or I am leaving!   Bob 09 klr     To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com From: charlesf@... Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 00:58:33 -0500 Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare...   Well, I WAS going to stay out of this one.   I am on plenty of lists that get political, and I am really getting burned out on politics...  I am not an Obomination fan, nor was I a Bush The Second fan, nor was I a Klinton fan, and I didn't care much for Bush The First, either.  I did like Reagan, but Carter and Ford didn't do much for me, either.  This is not a R vs D thing.   We could use some independents. .......   And, I'll admit, I have no "facts", just my own personal observation.  But, the observation. ........   I have an autistic son.  He's almost 12 years old now.  A few years back, some of his other medical issues caused us to take a few trips to the Cleveland Clinic;  a very well respected medical institution, in Cleveland Ohio, of course.   During these trips, we had stayed at the Ronald McDonald house, as they are all about helping children in these situations.   My observations at the RM house and at the clinic:  There were at least as many, if not more, foreign families/patients there for medical diagnosis/treatment than there were Americans.  I met people from various countries, from South America to Saudi Arabia, etc.   These people did not go to Canada for treatment; they also did not go to England, Australia, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Spain, Sweden,; or any other of the many countries with socialized (or non-socialized) medicine.  They came to the USA.  I have a hard time believing they came to the USA for WORSE medical care than they could receive elsewhere.  As Monty Python was fond of saying, "That's just silly".   From what I have read/heard in recent years, the two best countries for medical research and treatment are the USA and Israel.  YMMV.  But, I haven't yet seen a "government program" that didn't waste money, and when you consider that Social Security is basically bankrupt, and the US Post Office can't turn a profit, I don't have a lot of faith that they can make the medical system work, either.  We are only so many trillion in debt that it is mathematically impossible to pay; how can we possibly trust this to work?   And, finally, if you actually read the US Constitution, exactly WHERE in that document does it give the government the legal authority to force me or you to pay for anything?  Or, better yet, where does it give the government the authority take control of an entire industry?  If you can please point out the section and clause, from the actual text of the US Constitution, I'd love to read it.....  Not that that document means much to those in Washington these days.    Anyway, I'll go back to dreaming of warmer days, and my ebony 2009 KLR. Chuck F. NE PA    

----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] klrsisfiddy@... [b]To:[/b] marat713@... ; judjonzz@... ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Tuesday, March 09, 2010 12:18 AM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare.. . Then send us a list of these countries so we can look them up and study their system, I'm very open minded as long as I have something to consider in the debate, decision, etc. TK [b]From:[/b] Marat Valegh [b]To:[/b] Jud ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Mon, March 8, 2010 11:02:18 PM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare.. .   Hi there,   Not the first post I thought I would write, but insults (whether intelligent or not) aside, the US health care system is by far one of the worst there is in the civilized world. Speaking from experience, it is expensive and by the time the doctors find out what is wrong with you, you will either heal on your own or die from whatever it is you have.  I have worked and lived outside the states for half my life and have seen better health care and more educated doctors in the slums of Eastern Block countries no one ever heard of. I have not been blessed with good health and have been at more hospitals then there are words in the English language. Here in the States the system needs change period. Just my two cents, is all.   Sorry if this insults any hardened media brainwashed American patriot out there.   Marat  [b]From:[/b] Jud [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Mon, March 8, 2010 6:19:03 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR - Obama's healthcare.. .   Scott, I never said or even suggested that it was necessary for anyone to see this post, which is totally inappropriate for this forum, only that if you were going to insult me, you should have the balls to do it publicly. Thanks for sharing. --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Scott Reitor wrote: > > I originally sent this to just Jud, as I did not think it necessary for > everyone to see it. Jud has sent me a private email telling me otherwise. > That being the case, I have pasted my exact email to him on this topic > below. > > > > Jud, > > If you are going to insult someone's point of view or call bullshit, be sure > you know how to use your $10.00 words. Cognitive dissonance is the state of > a person then holding two contradictory beliefs at the same time, such as > thinking 'the sky is blue' while also thinking 'the sky is not blue.' Your > statement is therefore nonsense. > > Your second error is to belittle an opposing point of view by citing his use > of 'spurious' anecdotes one sentence after you say "your view of the > Canadian health care system fails to comport with that of the overwhelming > majority of Canadians I have spoken to" which itself is anecdotal. That > makes you a hypocrite at best or again, merely reveals your lack of a firm > grasp on the words you use to try to sound intelligent. > > You then conclude with criticizing the point of view of your opposition > because he made a subjective observation which you call bullshit on. The > fact is that no opinion is bullshit...only alleged facts can be bullshit and > opinions, just like yours, are nothing more than subjective beliefs. > > In short, go ahead and speak your opinion if you want to, but don't try to > insult someone with words you cannot even use properly and an underdeveloped > grasp of how to hold an intelligent debate. > > Scott > > On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Jud wrote: > > > > > > > A bit of cognitive dissonance here, as your view of the Canadian health > > care system fails to comport with that of the overwhelming majority of > > Canadians I have spoken to. It's a favorite strategy to falsely malign the > > Canadian and various health care systems with spurious anecdotes. You give > > yourself away when you point to American health care as the best. In short, > > I call bullsh!t. > > > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com , > > "fasteddiecopeman" wrote: > > > > > > Stu, > > > As a Canadian, I'd like to reply to one of your points: > > > > > > > Ask yourself this: If we had a comprehensive health care system in > > place, would emergency rooms still be used for health concerns that should > > be handled (or more likely totally avoided) at routine doctor's visits? > > > > > > > > > > The answer is: YES! > > > > > > We've had socialized health care here since the '60s. I've been in the > > emergency room with broken bones (mine or buddies) several times and had to > > wait behind kids with runny noses, and other 'maladies' that COULD HAVE (and > > SHOULD HAVE) been covered by a visit to a clinic or doctor's office! > > > > > > The wait for an MRI here is unconscionably long (can't waste money on the > > latest breakthroughs. ..); if you require, for instance, a knee replacement, > > you FIRST go on a waiting list to SEE a specialist (a months long wait!), > > then, IF it's deemed to be necessary, another up-to-several- YEARS wait for > > the operation. > > > > > > Remember Palin's "death-panels" ? We have them here in Canada - surgeons > > that COULD do surgeries are not allowed to even tho' O.R.s are available, > > due monetary concerns. People in THIS country routinely DIE waiting for > > surgeries that are required. > > > > > > The US has the BEST health care in the world. Why would you wish to let > > the government (which CAN NOT even run the Post Office, Social Security or > > Medicare) take over YOUR health? > > > > > > As a Canadian I would welcome with open arms the ability to become a US > > citizen and partake in YOUR health system! > > > > > > The Canadian system is on the verge of bankruptcy (costs me and every > > other taxpayer here between 30 and 35% of our income taxes, and going > > nowhere but UP. How's that for "FREE" health care?) > > > > > > Good luck. > > > > > > My 2cents (Canadian).. .. > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > > > > >

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