digest number 10733

[David Bell]

It is my understanding and my experience that red loctite is meant to be defeated with heat. I learned this the hard way. I had a Haley FLHP once that I got from an engineer. He had heard that Harleys shed fasteners, so he red loctited every nut bolt and screw on the bike. I got her with 8k on the speedometer and ended up drilling out a screw that I stripped the head from with the screwdriver. When I drilled it out, the heat generated by the drilling made me realize that's what it needed. I got out a heatgun and the rest of the screws came out easily. From then on, a heatgun was the standard tool for removing any part from that bike. I use red loctite in places where the fastener will not be removed for normal maintanence, and if and when it is removed, it'll be in my garage or shop where I'll have access to a heat gun. In the field, I guess I'd have to figure something else out. ________________________________ From: D Critchley Cc: DSN_KLR650 Yahoo Groups DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 5:40:09 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Careful with your air filter box mods BLOWN ENGINE ALERT For those who don't know. Loctite and a lot of similar stuff comes in Red and Blue. The material, not the package, blue is removable with tools, red is deliberately a PITA to remove, it is mean to be permanent. I'm no expert on the chemistry, but be careful if you are colour-blind. DC Doug Pippin wrote:

> > Thinking now. > > Obviously you don't know how Loctite works. > Put some blue or purple Loctite on the threads and it will retain the > threads and you'll be able to remove the screw whenever you want. > > . > >

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[Mark Harfenist]

What I haven't seen (might have missed it) is a workable solution to the actual problem described. The nut falls out of its little recess on the clean side of the air filter. In order to fasten the air filter in place, the nut needs to be stuck securely enough in that recess so that it will remain there despite being poked and prodded from behind by the mounting stud (skip the jokes, please). Threading this stud blindly into place while holding a sticky, freshly-oiled foam air cleaner with a bead of grease on one edge was awkward even when the nut stayed put; now that it is free to fall out, the whole thing becomes an exercise in extreme frustration and near-utter helplessness. For that, I've got a girlfriend. The question is: how to fix the nut into position within a difficult-to-reach plastic recess...without smearing glue, sealant or other materials on the internal threads which the stud will need to engage smoothly. My fat fingers have not succeeded in accomplishing this. So far, I've wedged the nut into place by reaching around the air filter edge with oddly shaped tools like little allen wrenches. This causes justifiable worries that I'm not getting a good seal on the filter edge following mashing it around with fingers, allen wrench and other implements. I haven't even had an opportunity to worry about the nut getting loose and sucked into the cylinder; with the stud threaded into it, it's not going anywhere. Without the stud threaded into it, I've got no working air filter, in which case I'm not riding the bike. We are not talking threadlocking compound here. We are talking silicone caulk, maybe, or something similar. Since it's on the clean side of the air filter, the material needs to be stable and the work needs to be obsessively neat. Surely more than two of us have had this irritating little problem, right? What's the solution? Thanks. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming (cue: incessant squabbling about threadlock compounds). enjoy, Mark

[jokerloco9@aol.com]

Why can't you carefully glue the nut to the housing? I personally don't know what the problem is. I have had my air filter off a couple of times, and I haven't had any trouble with any nuts. Any way of installing a bolt from the inside out? Jeff In a message dated 11/26/2008 10:23:52 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, markharf@... writes: What I haven't seen (might have missed it) is a workable solution to the actual problem described. The nut falls out of its little recess on the clean side of the air filter. In order to fasten the air filter in place, the nut needs to be stuck securely enough in that recess so that it will remain there despite being poked and prodded from behind by the mounting stud (skip the jokes, please). Threading this stud blindly into place while holding a sticky, freshly-oiled foam air cleaner with a bead of grease on one edge was awkward even when the nut stayed put; now that it is free to fall out, the whole thing becomes an exercise in extreme frustration and near-utter helplessness. For that, I've got a girlfriend. The question is: how to fix the nut into position within a difficult-to-The question is: how to fix the nut into position within a difficult-to-reach plastic recess...without smearing glue, sealant or other materials on the internal threads which the stud will need to engage smoothly. My fat fingers have not succeeded in accomplishing this. So far, I've wedged the nut into place by reaching around the air filter edge with oddly shaped tools like little allen wrenches. This causes justifiable worries that I'm not getting a good seal on the filter edge I haven't even had an opportunity to worry about the nut getting loose and sucked into the cylinder; with the stud threaded into it, it's not going anywhere. Without the stud threaded into it, I've got no working air filter, in which case I'm not riding the bike. We are not talking threadlocking compound here. We are talking silicone caulk, maybe, or something similar. Since it's on the clean side of the air filter, the material needs to be stable and the work needs to be obsessively neat. Surely more than two of us have had this irritating little problem, right? What's the solution? Thanks. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming (cue: incessant squabbling about threadlock compounds). enjoy, Mark **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Wayne Blackburn]

The solution that worked for me. Used a soldering gun to melt the plastic around the nut. It also made replacing filter much easier.

--- On Thu, 11/27/08, Mark Harfenist wrote: From: Mark Harfenist Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Careful with your air filter box mods BLOWN ENGINE ALERT To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 27, 2008, 1:23 AM What I haven't seen (might have missed it) is a workable solution to the actual problem described. The nut falls out of its little recess on the clean side of the air filter. In order to fasten the air filter in place, the nut needs to be stuck securely enough in that recess so that it will remain there despite being poked and prodded from behind by the mounting stud (skip the jokes, please). Threading this stud blindly into place while holding a sticky, freshly-oiled foam air cleaner with a bead of grease on one edge was awkward even when the nut stayed put; now that it is free to fall out, the whole thing becomes an exercise in extreme frustration and near-utter helplessness. For that, I've got a girlfriend. The question is: how to fix the nut into position within a difficult-to- reach plastic recess...without smearing glue, sealant or other materials on the internal threads which the stud will need to engage smoothly. My fat fingers have not succeeded in accomplishing this. So far, I've wedged the nut into place by reaching around the air filter edge with oddly shaped tools like little allen wrenches. This causes justifiable worries that I'm not getting a good seal on the filter edge following mashing it around with fingers, allen wrench and other implements. I haven't even had an opportunity to worry about the nut getting loose and sucked into the cylinder; with the stud threaded into it, it's not going anywhere. Without the stud threaded into it, I've got no working air filter, in which case I'm not riding the bike. We are not talking threadlocking compound here. We are talking silicone caulk, maybe, or something similar. Since it's on the clean side of the air filter, the material needs to be stable and the work needs to be obsessively neat. Surely more than two of us have had this irritating little problem, right? What's the solution? Thanks. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming (cue: incessant squabbling about threadlock compounds). enjoy, Mark

[Doug Pippin]

Mark Without taking the filter off (doesn't need cleaning just now) and trying to remember what it looks like in there the following could be a fix for those that are having a loose nut problem and have removed the backfire? screen. Install a stud with a nut on each side of the plastic where the current nut is. Use Loctite on the nuts to ensure they don't come loose. It may also take a flat washer for each nut. Make the stud long enough to replace the current air filter retaining bolt. Then once the filter is in place put a washer and nut on the stud to retain the filter. You could even use a wing nut. Not sure if the filter will go in if there's a stud in there but if it will then this could be a possible fix . I know you can get a K&N filter in. OK now I'm done thinking for a while! Doug ---------- At 09:51 AM 11/27/2008, you wrote:

>Careful with your air filter box mods BLOWN ENGINE ALERT > Posted by: "Mark Harfenist" markharf@... markharf > Date: Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:23 pm ((PST)) > >What I haven't seen (might have missed it) is a workable solution to >the actual problem described. The nut falls out of its little >recess on the clean side of the air filter. In order to fasten the >air filter in place, the nut needs to be stuck securely enough in >that recess so that it will remain there despite being poked and >prodded from behind by the mounting stud (skip the jokes, >please). Threading this stud blindly into place while holding a >sticky, freshly-oiled foam air cleaner with a bead of grease on one >edge was awkward even when the nut stayed put; now that it is free >to fall out, the whole thing becomes an exercise in extreme >frustration and near-utter helplessness. For that, I've got a girlfriend. > >The question is: how to fix the nut into position within a >difficult-to-reach plastic recess...without smearing glue, sealant >or other materials on the internal threads which the stud will need >to engage smoothly. My fat fingers have not succeeded in >accomplishing this. So far, I've wedged the nut into place by >reaching around the air filter edge with oddly shaped tools like >little allen wrenches. This causes justifiable worries that I'm not >getting a good seal on the filter edge following mashing it around >with fingers, allen wrench and other implements. > >I haven't even had an opportunity to worry about the nut getting >loose and sucked into the cylinder; with the stud threaded into it, >it's not going anywhere. Without the stud threaded into it, I've got >no working air filter, in which case I'm not riding the bike. > >We are not talking threadlocking compound here. We are talking >silicone caulk, maybe, or something similar. Since it's on the >clean side of the air filter, the material needs to be stable and >the work needs to be obsessively neat. > >Surely more than two of us have had this irritating little problem, >right? What's the solution? >Thanks. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming >(cue: incessant squabbling about threadlock compounds). > >enjoy, >Mark

---------- Doug Pippin 828-684-8488 d_pippin_89@... ---------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]