"the tire changing blues"

[scott quillen]

Well said Norm... Scott April Neave & Norm Keller wrote: In fairness to mechanics, the KLR is not a problem prone series so they don't see a lot of them. In addition, the number which have a noticeable doohickey issue even though the spring is broken is likely only a small percentage of those. There is far more KLR experience on this list then one will find in a bevy of shops so issues are revealed here which will not be identified by individual mechanics. Those people are simply reporting (in most cases) what they have seen in the course of their work. The fact that they don't know of a trend with doohickey problems doesn't make them incompetent, brainwashed or in any other way unfit. Point Dave at our local dealership at a bike he has never seen before and he'll come out of the task far better than the most informed amateur even though he doesn't know that the series won the most dirt road orientation competitions in Somalia in 2003.... If one is trying to measure, one must make sure that one is using an appropriate scale.... I see over 300 automotive techs each week and hear the most foolish blather from amateurs regarding the competency of professionals. Most of the time it simply doesn't wash. You might also wish to consider whether you would prefer that the mechanic tell you what he knows from experience and genuinely believes to be true, or whether you would prefer that he ask what you think and then enthusiastically agree with you...... FWIW Norm Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[J T]

I'm the poster who wrote about the mechanic who said that the "part is so good I've put it in other bikes." You're right, Norm: this issue receives focused attention on this list. But there are countless other forums where information is exchanged about doohickey failure, including articles in the press and online (Motorcycle Consumer News, to name one). If a Kawi. mechanic claims not to have heard about it, I really don't think it's unreasonable to wonder about his honesty or about his deep knowledge of the bike.

>April Neave & Norm Keller wrote: >In fairness to mechanics, the KLR is not a problem prone series so they >don't see a lot of them. In addition, the number which have a noticeable >doohickey issue even though the spring is broken is likely only a small >percentage of those. > >There is far more KLR experience on this list then one will find in a bevy >of shops so issues are revealed here which will not be identified by >individual mechanics. Those people are simply reporting (in most cases) >what >they have seen in the course of their work. The fact that they don't know >of >a

trend with doohickey problems doesn't make them incompetent, brainwashed

>or in any other way unfit. > >Point Dave at our local dealership at a bike he has never seen before and >he'll come out of the task far better than the most informed amateur even >though he doesn't know that the series won the most dirt road orientation >competitions in Somalia in 2003.... > >If one is trying to measure, one must make sure that one is using an >appropriate scale.... > >I see over 300 automotive techs each week and hear the most foolish blather >from amateurs regarding the competency of professionals. Most of the time >it >simply doesn't wash. > >You might also wish to consider whether you would prefer that the mechanic >tell you what he knows from experience and genuinely believes to be true, >or >whether you would prefer that he ask what you think and then >enthusiastically agree with you...... > >FWIW > >Norm > > > > >Archive Quicksearch at: >http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html >List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com >List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >Archive Quicksearch at: >http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html >List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com >List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

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[Thor Lancelot Simon]

On Fri, Oct 21, 2005 at 10:44:15AM -0400, J T wrote:

> > > I'm the poster who wrote about the mechanic who said that the "part is so > good I've put it in other bikes." You're right, Norm: this issue receives > focused attention on this list. But there are countless other forums where > information is exchanged about doohickey failure, including articles in the > press and online (Motorcycle Consumer News, to name one). If a Kawi. > mechanic claims not to have heard about it, I really don't think it's > unreasonable to wonder about his honesty or about his deep knowledge of the > bike.

I think it's unreasonable to expect a random dealership mechanic to have "deep knowledge of the bike". These folks are supposed to have sufficient _general_ mechanical knowledge and skill to be able to quickly and correctly fix your bike with the service manual as a reference. Beyond that, I don't think you can really expect much. They shouldn't lie to you, however. It's amazing how at some (most?) dealerships that seems to be the default action no matter who you're dealing with, in what department. It gives all the dealers a bad rep and it's surprising to me that the national distributors put up with it. Thor

[Matt]

Here's a current thread with excellent pictures of a dooectomy: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97019 Matt

[Randy Shultz]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "J T" wrote:

>

But there are countless other forums where information is exchanged about doohickey failure, including articles in the press and online (Motorcycle Consumer News, to name one). If a Kawi. mechanic claims not to have heard about it, I really don't think it's unreasonable to wonder about his honesty or about his deep knowledge of the bike. --- Set your expectations low and you are less likely to be disappointed. I think it's unrealistic to expect that most dealership mechanics spend their free time reading model-specific forums unless they happen to own that bike themselves. And personally, I don't call a mechanic a "Kawi" mechanic unless they work for Kawasaki. I have a lower expectation of mechanics who work at dealerships that simply sell Kawasakis, sometimes in addition to other brands. I try not to use terms like "doohickey" when I'm talking to a mechanic either, unless I already know he knows what part I am referring to, just to keep communication clear. I notice, however, based on the service rates charged at many dealers, that the dealership's expectations of the value of their mechanics evidently differs quite substantially from my own. And because of that disconnect my KLR hasn't seen the inside of a dealership service bay since the day it was prepped for sale. The bottom line is, if your expectations are low, you're not likely to be disappointed.

[J T]

OK, good advice. The next time I'm forced to visit a Kawi dealer's shop I'll set my expectations low, but I won't expect them to adjust their rates accordingly. I'm sorta new at this and assumed that mechanics who work at dealers bring a measure of bike-specific expertise to the task, beyond consulting the service manual.

>From: "Randy Shultz" >To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [DSN_KLR650] RE: Re: kawasaki mechanic told me doohickey was not >issue >Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:31:20 -0000 > >--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "J T" wrote: > > >But there are countless other forums where information is exchanged >about doohickey failure, including articles in the press and online >(Motorcycle Consumer News, to name one). If a Kawi. mechanic claims >not to have heard about it, I really don't think it's unreasonable to >wonder about his honesty or about his deep knowledge of the bike. > >--- > >Set your expectations low and you are less likely to be >disappointed. I think it's unrealistic to expect that most >dealership mechanics spend their free time reading model-specific >forums unless they happen to own that bike themselves. And >personally, I don't call a mechanic a "Kawi" mechanic unless they >work for Kawasaki. I have a lower expectation of mechanics who work >at dealerships that simply sell Kawasakis, sometimes in addition to >other brands. I try not to use terms like "doohickey" when I'm >talking to a mechanic either, unless I already know he knows what >part I am referring to, just to keep communication clear. > >I notice, however, based on the service rates charged at many >dealers, that the dealership's expectations of the value of their >mechanics evidently differs quite substantially from my own. And >because of that disconnect my KLR hasn't seen the inside of a >dealership service bay since the day it was prepped for sale. > >The bottom line is, if your expectations are low, you're not likely >to be disappointed. > > > > > >Archive Quicksearch at: >http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html >List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com >List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

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[Randy Shultz]

It would be interesting to know what the KLR-specific experience of the average dealership mechanic is versus those on this list who wrench on their own bike. I would guess that if you attended one or two Julian tech days you might have seen more doohickeys than most dealer mechanics will see in their careers. Am I wrong? I'm just guessing. So while I suspect that the average mechanic is a much better wrench than the average motorcycle owner, I doubt it takes too much personal model-specific wrenching to become more familiar with one specific motorcycle model than your average dealership mechanic. Now add to that the collective model-specific knowledge of a user community like this message board, and I think you have a realistic explanation for some of what we are talking about.

[ATO137528@aol.com]

Sorry, but I agree with Randy. My KLR has been in a dealer shop exactly once, and that was the 500 mile valve adjust...only because I understood that that had to be done by a dealer to keep the warranty valid. THAT visit was as bad as anyone could imagine. I'll spare you all with the story, but if you want it, e-mail me off list. This list, the information on it, and the people I've met have been infinitely more helpful than any dealer could be or would be. I won't even BUY anything from a dealer. The last time I did that I just tried to buy some damn oil and got screwed! I told the parts guy I was looking for 20/50 oil and all I saw was 10/30 on the shelf. He told me that he had the 20/50 in back, then brings me out a few quarts in a bag. I paid and left. When I got home, 100 miles later, I finally looked in the bag. Yep...10/30. (I'll share the story of my wife getting lied to and ripped off by another local stealership when she tried to buy me a new helmet for my birthday recently if you want me to.) If you can find a shop that treats you right, use it. But best bet is to do your own work and rely on this list and its resources to keep your KLR running. Having said that, CHANGE YOUR DOOHICKY!!! How many listers have shared stories and/or pictures of failures? Is there ANY doubt? Change yours and tell that POS stealership guy you're going to insert the broken pieces up his rectum. You can reassure him that you were told by a proctologist, who wouldn't lie to get business, that shoving metal fragments up his ass won't cause damage. Lamar A14 -----Original Message----- From: Randy Shultz To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:31:20 -0000 Subject: [DSN_KLR650] RE: Re: kawasaki mechanic told me doohickey was not issue I notice, however, based on the service rates charged at many dealers, that the dealership's expectations of the value of their mechanics evidently differs quite substantially from my own. And because of that disconnect my KLR hasn't seen the inside of a dealership service bay since the day it was prepped for sale. The bottom line is, if your expectations are low, you're not likely to be disappointed. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[scott quillen]

Lamar, I hope you've since learned to look at what you're buying at the time of purchase rather than wait 'til you're 100 miles away from the place of purchase... Regards, Scott ATO137528@... wrote: Sorry, but I agree with Randy. My KLR has been in a dealer shop exactly once, and that was the 500 mile valve adjust...only because I understood that that had to be done by a dealer to keep the warranty valid. THAT visit was as bad as anyone could imagine. I'll spare you all with the story, but if you want it, e-mail me off list. This list, the information on it, and the people I've met have been infinitely more helpful than any dealer could be or would be. I won't even BUY anything from a dealer. The last time I did that I just tried to buy some damn oil and got screwed! I told the parts guy I was looking for 20/50 oil and all I saw was 10/30 on the shelf. He told me that he had the 20/50 in back, then brings me out a few quarts in a bag. I paid and left. When I got home, 100 miles later, I finally looked in the bag. Yep...10/30. (I'll share the story of my wife getting lied to and ripped off by another local stealership when she tried to buy me a new helmet for my birthday recently if you want me to.) If you can find a shop that treats you right, use it. But best bet is to do your own work and rely on this list and its resources to keep your KLR running. Having said that, CHANGE YOUR DOOHICKY!!! How many listers have shared stories and/or pictures of failures? Is there ANY doubt? Change yours and tell that POS stealership guy you're going to insert the broken pieces up his rectum. You can reassure him that you were told by a proctologist, who wouldn't lie to get business, that shoving metal fragments up his ass won't cause damage. Lamar A14 -----Original Message----- From: Randy Shultz To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:31:20 -0000 Subject: [DSN_KLR650] RE: Re: kawasaki mechanic told me doohickey was not issue I notice, however, based on the service rates charged at many dealers, that the dealership's expectations of the value of their mechanics evidently differs quite substantially from my own. And because of that disconnect my KLR hasn't seen the inside of a dealership service bay since the day it was prepped for sale. The bottom line is, if your expectations are low, you're not likely to be disappointed. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Rick McCauley]

JT, you have to realize that this isn't the 60's. No mechanic can work on every model, of even one brand, without consulting a manual. An Uncle of mine is a mechanic. He retired in 2004. He worked on almost everything ever made in his 38 years as a mechanic. He has several awards, and is a good and knowledgable mechanic by anyones standards. He has told me how much different things are now. When he first opened his shop he had 3 manuals. GM, Ford, and Chrysler. Now days, dealerships have a library of manuals. There are so many changes made to cars, and motorcycles from year to year that all mechanics use manuals. Rick A17 J T wrote: OK, good advice. The next time I'm forced to visit a Kawi dealer's shop I'll set my expectations low, but I won't expect them to adjust their rates accordingly. I'm sorta new at this and assumed that mechanics who work at dealers bring a measure of bike-specific expertise to the task, beyond consulting the service manual. --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]