oil filters-discussion board

[rm@richardmay.net]

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005, Arden Kysely wrote:

> I don't buy the money argument. There are plenty of women out there who > are 'horse poor' from pursuing an expensive activity (imagine if you had > to feed and board your KLR whether you rode it or not), but they do it > because they love it.

I don't buy the 75 cents on the dollar thing either. Men work different occupations that tend to pay higher. Many of them are far more hazardous as well. The largest factor in the "pay inequality" is that women jump off the career track and onto the mommy track just as their income is getting cranked up. Who is going to earn more, the man who has been plugging away for the last five years or the woman who has burned-up her full FMLA leave three times in the last five years? If there were as many men who would stay home to raise the children as there are women, the numbers would shift dramatically. As it is now, the wage gap narrows to 97 cents on the dollar when you include only childless women. That should tell us something right there... RM

[Tengai Mark Van Horn]

At 9:55 PM -0800 1/13/05, Eric L. Green wrote:

>> So much for not repelling women...now how do we attract women to >> motorcycling? > >By encouraging them to enter high-paying professions, and paying them >equal pay when they do so. > >Look: the reason women don't own motorcycles is the same reason I didn't >own a motorcycle for over 10 years after I sold mine at the end of my >college years -- $$$. A motorcycle is a luxury item in the United States, >rather than something routinely used for daily transportation. Women on >average earn 3/4ths of what men earn.

I disagree. I'm shit poor and I have a bunch of bikes. A couple of 'em are even nice to look at. Luxury is in the mind of the beholder. Mark

[Bogdan Swider]

I think one thing that keeps women out of motorcycling is men and their 'manly' attitudes-- I don't think you're giving the ladies enough credit, Arden. They don't ride much because of their preferences not because of what men do. Some woman - of course - are moto enthusiasts. My first wife was a great rider and took it up on her own; I'm happy to call Mariola a friend. However my present spouse - like yours - represents the majority; she's just not interested. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I do agree with you about the money thing. Money has little or nothing to do with the paucity of females in motorcycling. Another thought, here in Colorado the great majority of woman that ride, ride Harleys. Two reasons: inexplicably Harley is the only outfit to seriously offer rides with a low seat height and most important their bikes appeal to the fashion conscious. Bogdan

[Stuart Mumford]

> -----Original Message----- > I think one thing that keeps women > out of motorcycling is men and their 'manly' attitudes--salesmen who > ignore women, riders who consider motorcycling a men-only activity (a > way to get away from the wife instead of spend time with her), and > those who think that the 'fairer sex' belong home with the kids while > Dad does the macho thing on his two-wheeler.

This is an astute observation that may be painfully accurate. For proof, try telling your riding buddies that you miss your wife after you've been camping with them for a few days (what a mistake that was, sheesh). However, is there anything wrong with motorcycling being a male-dominated pastime? I don't see anything wrong with it. Just like I don't see anything wrong with women having their own female dominated pursuits. My mother in law is a very active member of a quilting group, and guess how many men are involved with that... (actually, there is one "hairdresser") To paraphrase Dr. King, I have a dream that my three little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the content of their pants, but by the content of their character.

> > My wife knows that riding is fun and I've tried to get her to learn > to ride, but she has plenty of other things she does and she's not > interested. A friend of mine's wife loves to putt around on her > XR100, so they do some fireroads together. >

Like Mrs. Arden, my wife is not interested in motorcycle riding at all. She says if I buy a BMW K 1200 LT, she'll go riding with me, but she is definitely NKLR. I bought a boat specifically intending to use it to spend more outdoor time with the family. She doesn't like that much, either! If your spouse isn't interested in riding, it's pretty easy to figure out that motorcycling, especially the week long adventure touring type, can be pretty selfish hobby for a married man. I got my first bike for my 6th or 7th birthday, which was years before I became interested in girls. Plus, my Dad had bikes. My Mum didn't. What does that have to do with anything? I don't know.

> Back to the money thing--I work with a woman who makes more than I do > and recently bought a motorcycle. Did she do it because she could > suddenly afford a bike? Hardly. She did it because she saw that > motorcycling is fun, and because her husband encouraged her to learn > to ride by herself so they could take rides together. I'd like to see > more women on motorcycles. That would mean fewer cars on the road > that are trying to kill me. >

Money, shmoney. There are plenty of women making way more than enough money to afford any bike they damn well please. I wouldn't mind seeing more women on bikes either. KLRs are not the best woman's bike, not being sexist here, but it's a tall, topheavy beast. Use some common sense when choosing a bike, get some training, come on out and discover the joy that is motorcycling. Then go fetch me a beer and a sandwich*

> For another take on women in motorcycling, check out the Feb issue of > Dual-Sport News. > > Flame on!! > > __Arden

Who do you think you are, Johnny Storm? Cheers CA Stu * a nice big meatball sandwich (this is a joke)...

[Arden Kysely]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart Mumford" wrote:

> > -----Original Message----- > > However, is there anything wrong with motorcycling being a male-

dominated pastime? I don't see anything wrong with it.

> Just like I don't see anything wrong with women having their own >female dominated pursuits. > My mother in law is a very active member of a quilting group, and

guess how many men are involved with that...

> (actually, there is one "hairdresser")

There's nothing wrong with it being male-dominated, as long as women have a fair chance of joining the sport. If they're excluded because men don't think they should be riding, that's wrong. If women choose not to participate, that's fine. (Is this a bad time to mention that I like to sew?)

> Like Mrs. Arden, my wife is not interested in motorcycle riding at >all. She says if I buy a BMW K 1200 LT, she'll go riding with me, >but she is definitely NKLR.

Of my DR-Z, KLR and VFR, the KLR is my wife's choice for comfort, but we don't go to far because comfort is relative. Funny how she can sit the saddle of a horse all day and not complain...

> If your spouse isn't interested in riding, it's pretty easy to >figure out that motorcycling, especially the week long adventure >touring type, can be pretty selfish hobby for a married man.

Correct-o, but we take a couple of vacations together each year and I'm pretty good with the honey-do list so that keeps the guilt level down to just a twinge when I wave good-bye for a week. If I didn't have to travel for work, the bike trips wouldn't really be an issue. __Arden

[Erik]

> not to participate, that's fine. (Is this a bad time to mention that > I like to sew?)

you're not the only one here. i like to Do It Myself as often as possible, and that includes fixing and making clothes. (though the latter is -hard- and I don't do it much.) erik

[Conall]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Tengai Mark Van Horn wrote:

> At 9:55 PM -0800 1/13/05, Eric L. Green wrote: > >> So much for not repelling women...now how do we attract women to > >> motorcycling? > > > >By encouraging them to enter high-paying professions, and paying

them

> >equal pay when they do so. > > > >Look: the reason women don't own motorcycles is the same reason I

didn't

> >own a motorcycle for over 10 years after I sold mine at the end of

my

> >college years -- $$$. A motorcycle is a luxury item in the United

States,

> >rather than something routinely used for daily transportation.

Women on

> >average earn 3/4ths of what men earn. > > I disagree. I'm shit poor and I have a bunch of bikes. A couple of > 'em are even nice to look at. > Luxury is in the mind of the beholder. > > Mark

I'm agree with Mark, at one time I couldn't justify the cost of car insurance. So I bought a KLR and used that for primary transportation. I saved so much money riding a 2000 dollar cycle with $20 a month insurance, I was able to afford a second KLR. Is the second one luxury? No I use it for my primary transportation when visiting the wrens ( parents), cheaper than a rental car. Conall

[Rodney Copeland]

I'm really sorry to hear that. Makes me feel fortunate. Maybe with a lil campaignin, it can change. Rod --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Arden Kysely" wrote:

> > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart Mumford"

> wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > However, is there anything wrong with motorcycling being a male- > dominated pastime? I don't see anything wrong with it. > > Just like I don't see anything wrong with women having their own > >female dominated pursuits. > > My mother in law is a very active member of a quilting group, and > guess how many men are involved with that... > > (actually, there is one "hairdresser") > > There's nothing wrong with it being male-dominated, as long as

women

> have a fair chance of joining the sport. If they're excluded

because

> men don't think they should be riding, that's wrong. If women

choose

> not to participate, that's fine. (Is this a bad time to mention

that

> I like to sew?) > > > Like Mrs. Arden, my wife is not interested in motorcycle riding

at

> >all. She says if I buy a BMW K 1200 LT, she'll go riding with me, > >but she is definitely NKLR. > > Of my DR-Z, KLR and VFR, the KLR is my wife's choice for comfort,

but

> we don't go to far because comfort is relative. Funny how she can

sit

> the saddle of a horse all day and not complain... > > > If your spouse isn't interested in riding, it's pretty easy to > >figure out that motorcycling, especially the week long adventure > >touring type, can be pretty selfish hobby for a married man. > > Correct-o, but we take a couple of vacations together each year and > I'm pretty good with the honey-do list so that keeps the guilt

level

> down to just a twinge when I wave good-bye for a week. If I didn't > have to travel for work, the bike trips wouldn't really be an issue. > > __Arden

[matteeanne@yahoo.com]

Sure as S**t i'll get blasted for this. And dont think for a second I like Tom Leykus at all, but he has made one point that it very valid. And this is not for all women, but rather the majority. (My wife is the minority, and the breadwinner in my family BTW. Point is, most women consider work in a much different light than (most) men do. If they happen to get pregnant, or go to school, or have something more important than work going on, they take the time off. It is not the same for us Men. We work hell or high water. I employ 39 employees at my store, and statistically the men are far more reliable, and do not have many "excuses" (Cramps, preg's, fighting with spouse, etc) And I never have any of the men asking me to lift something heavy for them, or take care of something "gross". So naturally these men are making more money. Fact is, if ANYONE, man or woman pulls their weight, they make more money than those who don't.(my boss is a woman) But the MAJORITY of women do not take work as seriously as men, so the Majority make less money. As for a KLR "costing" I have saved the cost of the bike in gas alone versus driving a cage (my truck has a 455) And, lastly, my wife bought me my KLR. And with the exception of "Show me your rack" Friday's. leykus is an arrogant idiot who is not very much in touch with reality.... --- Conall wrote:

> > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Tengai Mark Van > Horn > wrote: > > At 9:55 PM -0800 1/13/05, Eric L. Green wrote: > > >> So much for not repelling women...now how do > we attract women to > > >> motorcycling? > > > > > >By encouraging them to enter high-paying > professions, and paying > them > > >equal pay when they do so. > > > > > >Look: the reason women don't own motorcycles is > the same reason I > didn't > > >own a motorcycle for over 10 years after I sold > mine at the end of > my > > >college years -- $$$. A motorcycle is a luxury > item in the United > States, > > >rather than something routinely used for daily > transportation. > Women on > > >average earn 3/4ths of what men earn. > > > > I disagree. I'm shit poor and I have a bunch of > bikes. A couple of > > 'em are even nice to look at. > > Luxury is in the mind of the beholder. > > > > Mark > > I'm agree with Mark, at one time I couldn't justify > the cost of car > insurance. So I bought a KLR and used that for > primary > transportation. I saved so much money riding a 2000 > dollar cycle with > $20 a month insurance, I was able to afford a second > KLR. Is the > second one luxury? No I use it for my primary > transportation when > visiting the wrens ( parents), cheaper than a rental > car. > > Conall > > > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: > www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: > www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > DSN_KLR650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > >

__________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com

[steve pye]

----- Original Message ----- From: "Bogdan Swider" > > I think one thing that keeps women out of motorcycling is men and their > 'manly' attitudes-- I've been following this thread with interest. Some great comments. I can't help but make a little personal observation of my own. My first wife had no interest in bikes and her irresponsible behavior caused me to sell two KLR's. My new girlfriend has owned several bikes and currently rides a VTX Honda ( okay...it's a cruiser!! So what??), and loves the sport. Suffice it say....I'm a lot happier!!!! I think we should do all we can to encourage women riders. Cheers, Steve