Thank you.
Claes.
-----Original Message-----
From: elcapitanuno31@... [mailto:elcapitanuno31@...]
Sent: 02 August 2001 22:08
To:
DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DSN_klr650] Re: are you serious?
this thread has evolved from concern for the violation one's personal
privacy to a loathsome and very entertaining assault on all things
french to a swashbuckling display of american pride....are we still
all motorcyclists?
...as many have gone forward with their own opinions and voiced them
freely, I would like to comment on the topics raised thus far...being
of Irish decent, though prodigy of immigrants who came to this
country via latin america- and holding both a US and Irish passport,
in addition to having spent a number of my years living in Spain and
Latin America (what a mouthfull!) I am at times very confused by the
concepts of Nationalism and Pride that have been floating around this
list.
First let me state that I feel strongly that National pride (or dare
I say CULTURAL pride) is extremely important. Individuals make up
the greater whole of a country. HOWEVER let us not forget that every
incident of genocide or ethnic cleansing that our world has bore
witness to, has been justified by Nationalism. It is not without
reason that the United States is perceived negatively by many outside
the U.S. Our foreign policies- which to those of us who vote in
support of or opposition to- are just policies, but for many they
translate into things like: restricted access to necessities, loss of
family memebers, support of regimes that persecute and "dissappear"
innocent civilians, etc. etc. etc. I once met a woman in Nicaragua
who described in great detail finding the mutilated body of her 18
year-old daughter on her stoop during the Contra War. Regardless of
idealogies her daughter was killed by U.S. Tax dollars- I was very
ashamed.
The United States involvement in foreign wars from WWII to date has
often been motivated by the economic interests of this country, not
the "Saving Europe's Ass" or "Liberating the Panamanians" or any
other altruistic bullshit our Media has spun it into. We entered
WWII because U.S. security was threatened. We attacked Iraq because
Saddam Hussein would have posed a serious threat to our Economy if he
had successfully taken control of the Oil wells along the northern
border of Kuwait. This was not a war of Ethics as the media depicted
it- far from it, we demonized Hussein much in the same way we
demonized Noriega and we demonize Castro. I don't mean to elevate
these leaders out of the toilet hole they belong in, but rather point
out that we had no qualms with Hussein gassing the Kurds with mustard
gas throughout the '80s (gas that we sold him, mind you) as long as
he maintained a strong defence against the Iron Curtain. It is my
opinion that we lead Hussein into the gulf war, enticed him into
believing that we would do nothing if he were to invade Kuwait. Many
may recall the last diplomatic summit prior to the invasion of Kuwait
in which April Gilaspy (sp?), Secretary to the embassador told
Hussein:
"(The United States) takes no issue with your Arab-Arab disputes,
what is of concern is the national security of Israel." One week
later the U.S. ceased arms sales to Iraq. Two weeks later we invaded
with our "Smart Bombs" and SCUDs that couldn't hit a barn at 10 yards.
Why did we do this? What was our motivation? There are many possible
answers, I would not exclude the unifying effect a War can have on a
nation. Let us not forget that public support for our president at
the time was at an all time low....
So I ramble...my issue is with the concept of Nationalism when it
means a denial of the wrongs it has caused. I am about embark on a
several month voyage through the thin waistine of the Americas on my
KLR....as Ted Simon says in his wonderful book "Jupiter's Travels,"
to really know this world, we must crawl through it, feel it between
our toes. The greatest lessons I've learned in my life I've learned
on the road, listening to the people I meet. To espouse an arrogant
and xenophobic sense of national pride, blinds you to the lessons of
others.
El Capitan
-- In DSN_klr650@y..., "Claes Borovac" wrote:
> Now, again, are you serious or very ironic? I do not know.
>
> Claes.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: brettonwolfgang@h... [mailto:brettonwolfgang@h...]
> Sent: 02 August 2001 20:22
> To: DSN_klr650@y...
> Subject: [DSN_klr650] Re: are you serious?
>
>
> I have no problem putting it in blunt terms.
> My country, The U.S.A. came to town and kicked the living shit out
of
> the Germans. My counry also kicked the dog shit out of the bastard
> Japanese. They had it coming, Europe couldnt deliver it, so we took
> it to them.
>
> Yes, Europe should be grateful.
>
> You bastards.
>
> Bretton Wolfgang, An American in America
>
> PS: You Bastards.
>
> --- In DSN_klr650@y..., "Claes Borovac" wrote:
> > Are you guys serious about that the french, or the rest of europe
> should
> > be "grateful" to the us because of WW2?
> >
> > Claes a swede in Dublin.
>
>
> Visit the KLR650 archives at
>
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>
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> but with the wife and the 2 kids;-)
>
>