time for a new battery.

[kusstj]

Happy Spring guys, here is an interesting tale. I had an OEM Dunlop with badly cracking sidewalls. So, I Broke down and picked up two Kenda k270's for the 02 KLR. Got a great deal at Bob's Cycle in St. Paul. (shameless plug) So I install the front without too much wrestling and air it up. I notice the bead had not seated in one area, so I thought I would drive it a while and see if it would wiggle its way home onto the rim. I ride down to the gas station in Chaska where they have a decent free air station. The tire is giving me a nice wump wump wump at low speed. I give it everything it's got at the station. I check with my tester which goes to 110 psi I think. The tire was up to 90psi, yet bead still not popped home completely, but one side did seat and the bike was rideable. So I head west to the next small town - Carver. At slow speed the wump is barely noticeable, but still there. I find another station with air. I hold the air hose on hoping to see the bead seat in front of my eyes. Nothing. I pull out my cheapo air gage and the gage slams open like a colt 45 revolver went off in my hand. Someplace over 110psi best I can tell, I suppose their compressor goes to 120 which is common. Bead still not seated in a 6 inch area on one side. So I continue down along the river bluffs toward Jordon. Bike is rideable, from a wump wump standpoint, but visibly I can see the bead area of the tire and it is not true. Riding on the highway with 120 psi in the front is a bit strange. Like the old style roller coaster you can feel every tiny undulation in the blacktop. Although I doubted I could run into any trouble, I was wary at highway speed. I wondering if anyone on the KLR list has had a blowout on the highway due to over pressure.?? I found some rough gravel with pot holes and attempted to pound the tire into submission. Still nothing. So I made it back home and parked the bike thinking that the high pressure would eventually have an effect and the bead would move home. Let it sit overnight. Next morning -nothing. Bead still not home. Now the bike is rideable, although I considered just airing it down to an appropriate pressure and riding it, and forgetting about it thinking it would eventually seat on a hot day this summer. But the thought of that "untrue" vision of the side wall stayed in my head and kept bothering me. It was one of those garage projects which just kept you out there, regardless of how unimportant it was. I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep, I couldn't drink until I had it solved. (ok I was actually drinking just fine last night, but you get the idea) I started to wonder if the Taiwanese had produced a defective tire which I had inherited. Perhaps much of the geopolitical strife and current global unrest had prompted some production guy in a factory to dial in his 40 ton vulcanized rubber press such that defective sidewalls would result, knowing full well that some middle class overweight (slightly) engineer and part time garage hobbiest would pull his hair out because of this tire. Nothing more diabolical than industrial sabotage . . . . So I get out to the garage today with a coffee in hand, plugged in the trouble light and stared at the tire a while. Part of me thought, what the hell just ride it. It had sat over night with about 90 -100 psi. I then pull the valve core and air the tire down. The area which refused to seat now opened a bit with a small gap. So I shoot in some no touch tire product spray which I had on the shelf to see if it would serve as lubricant. I then hook up my 12volt peewee herman air compressor. The compressor does say 275psi on the side (ya right) but it did appear to be getting the tire good and hard. Still nothing. I pull the core and let it air down again, and repeat the tire care lube trick, shooting a copious amount into the small gap between rubber and rim. I hit it with the air again and 10 minutes later the gage says about 100 psi. Still nothing. I happen to notice that my trouble light is now hot with perhaps a 100w lightbulb. I had recently replaced the Al Gore style bulb which never got very warm and which broke after falling off the ladder. So I place the trouble light in the vicinity of the unseated bead spot. It was warming the surface of the rubber and rim ever so slightly. There was still about 100 psi in the tire. I thought maybe I would heat this area a while with just the heat of the trouble light so as not to damage anything. I have a heat gun, but thought there is nothgin worse that the stench of singed rubber and it would be stupid to burn a spot on a new tire. About the time I got the light hung on the tire so it stayed put I look to see the area started to expand outward in front of my eyes. Part of me thought about a three stooges episode where tires blew up in Curly's face leaving his face black and smashing the cigar in his mouth. Within a span of 30 seconds the trouble spot slowly and silently expanded into place. For 24 hours I had been wanting to hear it Pop into place, but nope. Silently and slowly. Was it the pressure? The Spray? The small amount of heat? A three way interaction? Or just plain old time. Perhaps I had foiled the plot of an evil far eastern industrial saboteur. So anyhow, the bead is now seated 24 hours later, and I have to say I do feel gratified. For a while it seemed all the air pressure in the world wasn't going to solve this. Not sure exactly what did the trick. Believe it or not even my wife listened with interest to this ten minute story. So if you are still reading this, thanks for listening. Keep the rubber side down, ride safe and often. Todd in Chaska Minnesohta, A16

[fasteddiecopeman]

Todd, MY feeling is that you've just been EXTREMELY LUCKY! That tire could have (and SHOULD have) exploded in your face, causing death or severe injuries. Good idea is to NEVER exceed the max tire pressure shown on the sidewall, and if it doesn't seat, it's probably not lubricated enough, so air-down, re-lube the WHOLE tire bead, and refill. I use tire lube from a tire store, but I have used WD40, which worked fine. Out of the MANY K270s I've installed (at least a dozen), I've never had a problem getting the beads seated thru judicious use of lube and air. Cheers, Ed

[revmaaatin]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "kusstj" wrote:

> > Happy Spring guys, here is an interesting tale. I had an OEM Dunlop with badly > cracking sidewalls. So, I Broke down and picked up two Kenda k270's for the 02 > KLR.

SNIP . Todd in Chaska Minnesohta, A16 Todd-- This is not 'my' idea, but one I gleaned from Jeff Saline; Since you did not say so, I will assume you did not clean the rim before installing the new tire. It makes a huge difference. H-U-G-E. Something about the goo left over from a previous tire really degrades the seating process. Particularly if the tire has been there a really long time. A thorough cleaning does wonders for bead seating. Think: fastidiously clean. You can clean a wheel-bead surface with an electric drill and a wire wheel. or air die grinder/wire wheel if you have one. shrug. I had one set of wheels I bought used required 45 minutes of cleaning; the embedded old tire goo was a mess. The D607 tire change was in Feb, the tire temp was only ~65F and it was painful, even with the clean wheel. You are on to something good about the warm tire; I helped a buddy put on a set of K270's--I had him throughly clean the wheel, [while placing the tire in the full sunshine =90F], liberally lubed the tire with real tire soap during initially installation and relubed for inflation. The bead(s) fully seated on both wheels with only 30 psi. The clean rim is the bomb. The hot tire is the bomb. Some suggest putting the tire in the car with the windows up to help warm up the tire. (Spring conditions make that suggestion harder; think hot water in a tub, warm air vent, next to the hot water heater, warmed with a light bulb, etc.) No. It has not =never been that easy since. cough. But I get as close to those conditions as possible. Two sets of hands is always helpful as well. Another 'helper' is to put a ratchet strap around the circumference/contact patch of the tire to help bulge a difficult tire. YMMV. Thanks for posting. I hope you used a HD/UHD tube. I would hate to have to reseat that tire again. revmaaatin.

[skypilot110]

I have to agree with Ed that your lucky to be alive. Blowing a tireup in your face is dangerous but riding with the bead out is an almost sure way to blow a tire at speed. The bad news is you may not be out of the woods yet. Beeds on front D270s seat easily. The fact that it didnt after all that is a problem. While it may just be a mater of more lube, soapy dish water works well, it may be a bad bead or a fault in the rim. While you dont want to hear this you need to air it down and pop the bead to be sure. When a tire doesnt seat like that the first thing to do is to mark the spot on the tire and bead where it would not seat. Next you air down, break the bead and spin the tire a quarter or half turn and try again. If it doesnt seat again it is likely to be where either the tire or rim is marked. Then you know what to look at. If it pops right in you are likely fine and can write it off to not enough lube. If not, follow the proceedure and be sure. Sorry, but this is something you should be sure of Chris

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "fasteddiecopeman" wrote: > > Todd, > MY feeling is that you've just been EXTREMELY LUCKY! That tire could have (and SHOULD have) exploded in your face, causing death or severe injuries. > Good idea is to NEVER exceed the max tire pressure shown on the sidewall, and if it doesn't seat, it's probably not lubricated enough, so air-down, re-lube the WHOLE tire bead, and refill. I use tire lube from a tire store, but I have used WD40, which worked fine. Out of the MANY K270s I've installed (at least a dozen), I've never had a problem getting the beads seated thru judicious use of lube and air. > Cheers, > Ed >

[dat brooklyn bum]

I had a similar experience with a 270 recently. Except I didn't go for a ride on mine. After the bead wouldn't seat with excessive pressure , and several attempts with more and more lube, I finally coaxed the bead into place by using a tire iron to work towards the center of the unseated area. Worked great. BTW I think all the hubbub about excessive pressure causing injury may be slightly overblown - the tube will blow, not the tire - but that's just my opinion. Though riding on a tire with over 100 psi does sound sketchy to me. ;') da Vermonster

> --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "fasteddiecopeman" wrote: > > > > Todd, > > MY feeling is that you've just been EXTREMELY LUCKY! That tire could have (and SHOULD have) exploded in your face, causing death or severe injuries. > > Good idea is to NEVER exceed the max tire pressure shown on the sidewall, and if it doesn't seat, it's probably not lubricated enough, so air-down, re-lube the WHOLE tire bead, and refill. I use tire lube from a tire store, but I have used WD40, which worked fine. Out of the MANY K270s I've installed (at least a dozen), I've never had a problem getting the beads seated thru judicious use of lube and air. > > Cheers, > > Ed > > >

[mark ward]

3items 1. when a bead is stuborn beyond lube etc. I tap (hit) the tire with a RUBBER mallot, while inflated (PROPERLY) and that usualy gets it to pop into place. 2.Danger?? I have a friend that ran a Tire shop, said he THAUGHT is was an over rated issue, UNTILL he seen the damage of not using a tire cage, Now he insist on Tire cages. When something BLOWS EVERYTHING "SHAKES". 3. Is this story a Fish/golf (POLITICIAN) tale?? ( I had My KLR650 doing 150mph up hill. Or was I going rolling backwards DOWN HILL??)

--- On Mon, 3/21/11, dat brooklyn bum wrote: From: dat brooklyn bum Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Kenda K270 seating the bead To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, March 21, 2011, 12:33 PM I had a similar experience with a 270 recently. Except I didn't go for a ride on mine. After the bead wouldn't seat with excessive pressure , and several attempts with more and more lube, I finally coaxed the bead into place by using a tire iron to work towards the center of the unseated area. Worked great. BTW I think all the hubbub about excessive pressure causing injury may be slightly overblown - the tube will blow, not the tire - but that's just my opinion. Though riding on a tire with over 100 psi does sound sketchy to me. ;') da Vermonster > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "fasteddiecopeman" wrote: > > > > Todd, > > MY feeling is that you've just been EXTREMELY LUCKY! That tire could have (and SHOULD have) exploded in your face, causing death or severe injuries. > > Good idea is to NEVER exceed the max tire pressure shown on the sidewall, and if it doesn't seat, it's probably not lubricated enough, so air-down, re-lube the WHOLE tire bead, and refill. I use tire lube from a tire store, but I have used WD40, which worked fine. Out of the MANY K270s I've installed (at least a dozen), I've never had a problem getting the beads seated thru judicious use of lube and air. > > Cheers, > > Ed > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Kevin Powers]

You're using the wrong tools. The other day I watched a guy change a truck tire using only a pick axe. If you are going to do crazy stuff like roll around on a 100psi of kinda-sorta-seated front tire you might as well go whole hog and break out the big hardware. A few days after watching the pick axe tire change I had a buddy go down on a paved stretch when the front tire on his KLR went flat in a hurry. He was geared up properly and came out of it it pretty good shape. His helmet was scraped up, he had a whole in the sleeve of his riding jacket, some scrapes on his elbow and a bruised rib from landing on his arm. -- Kevin Powers White Bear Lake, MN [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[dat brooklyn bum]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, mark ward wrote:

> 2.Danger?? I have a friend that ran a Tire shop, said he THAUGHT is was an over rated issue, UNTILL he seen the damage of not using a tire cage, Now he insist on Tire cages. >>>>

The key difference here is that most of us are still running the stock tubed tire setup. The tube should fail long before the tire itself. I am NOT recommending that people air up to 100+ psi, but using more than the tire sidewall max pressure for seating a bead doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Operating a vehicle with more than the listed max pressure is definitely not worth risking. da Vermonster (How many psi are created when throwing a match at a starter fluid filled tire?)

[Jud]

I don't think 100 psi will blow a tire in good condition, either. It will survive hits to obstacles that must give transient pressures well above that figure. But I can't help cringing and looking away whenever the pressure gets up over 50 or 60 psi. I did have a tire blow on me once, a dry-rotted Barum that should have been replaced about 25 years earlier. The wire bead had rusted almost through, and it failed at about 35 psi. All I can say is, I'm glad I had sunglasses on, and I would not want to be next to a tire that let go at 50, 60 or 100 psi. Martin has the right idea about mounting: clean the rim. Then use talc to lube. I think a lot of the crud you find on the rim is left behind by dish soap, Ru-Glide or the spooge of the day. Breaking the bead the next time is a lot easier too, if you mount the tire on a clean rim using talc or baby powder. But my top tire mounting trick is not available to most riders. I always try to make sure my buddy Craig is around when I have to change a tire. If I just fumble the tire iron a little bit, or even if I don't, he jumps right in to give a hand, and pretty soon he's doing all the work. He can't help himself; it's his nature. I can just find a lawn chair and fire up a Rocky Patel.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "dat brooklyn bum" wrote: > > I had a similar experience with a 270 recently. Except I didn't go for a ride on mine. After the bead wouldn't seat with excessive pressure , and several attempts with more and more lube, I finally coaxed the bead into place by using a tire iron to work towards the center of the unseated area. Worked great. BTW I think all the hubbub about excessive pressure causing injury may be slightly overblown - the tube will blow, not the tire - but that's just my opinion. Though riding on a tire with over 100 psi does sound sketchy to me. ;') > > da Vermonster > > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "fasteddiecopeman" wrote: > > > > > > Todd, > > > MY feeling is that you've just been EXTREMELY LUCKY! That tire could have (and SHOULD have) exploded in your face, causing death or severe injuries. > > > Good idea is to NEVER exceed the max tire pressure shown on the sidewall, and if it doesn't seat, it's probably not lubricated enough, so air-down, re-lube the WHOLE tire bead, and refill. I use tire lube from a tire store, but I have used WD40, which worked fine. Out of the MANY K270s I've installed (at least a dozen), I've never had a problem getting the beads seated thru judicious use of lube and air. > > > Cheers, > > > Ed > > > > > >

[fasteddiecopeman]

This is NOT overblown! When we were about 8 or 9 years old, my brother filled his bicycle tire at a gas station without realizing that the air was flowing with NO restraint. His tire EXPLODED and knocked him several feet backwards! When I worked at a gas station, we had a large shielded container that we put wheels into when we were seating beads to CONTAIN THE EXPLOSION and, hopefully, save our life in the event that it exploded. Be careful out there! Ed

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "dat brooklyn bum" wrote: > > I had a similar experience with a 270 recently. Except I didn't go for a ride on mine. After the bead wouldn't seat with excessive pressure , and several attempts with more and more lube, I finally coaxed the bead into place by using a tire iron to work towards the center of the unseated area. Worked great. BTW I think all the hubbub about excessive pressure causing injury may be slightly overblown - the tube will blow, not the tire - but that's just my opinion. Though riding on a tire with over 100 psi does sound sketchy to me. ;') > > da Vermonster > >