gas - probably as bad as a oil thread

[roncriswell@sbcglobal.net]

As an old dirtbike rider like probably most of you are, I get so tired of when the so called next big adventure comes out (emphasis on big). Isn't every bike an adventure? The only adventure you might experience on the Yamaha Tenere is when if you are so stupid to take it down a deep gravel road, a muddy road, a talcum powder sandy road and have to pick the big turd up by yourself. I get hooked into these things every time a new one comes out (until I read the weight). To me weight is everything on a bike that is supposed to be able to go anywhere. You can get away with a bad suspension, under powered the lighter the bike is. I know, I still went more hard rough places on my 100 cc Hodaka than any other bike I have owned and I have had more powerful better suspentioned dirt bikes. I keep waiting for somebody to make a better KLR or Suzuki DR 650. Something under 300 pounds single cylinder with maybe 50 torquey ponies with a great suspension, 4 gallon or so tank, and a comfortable seat. Nine gallon tank, I don't want, 100 high reving ponies I don't need. I had to laugh when the guy that wrote about the Tenere said he went on a 3 day 600 mile trip. WHOOO HOO! I hate to tell him I have done numerous 500 - 600 - and 700 mile days on my KLR (with a Corbin). I have had it up around 100 mph on full 606 knobbies. The only time the power hasn't been adequate was passing a double logging truck in Mexico at 7000 ft. altitude. If the Japanes might build something like the V twin Aprllia dirt bikes with a 4 gallon tank and a comfy seat I might spring for it, but the Tenre, the Multistrada, the KTM 990 or the Beemer GS's, no thanks. The old air head GS Beemrs would be the closest to getting mild interest but still way too heavy and big. I had to laugh once when I rode to Big Bend once on a very windy cold weekend from Dallas with a friend that has the Big Beemer that is like a a Gold Wing with heated grips, CD player and air suspension who was ready to quit after 300 miles. Woosey. And remeber the guys on the big Beemers on the Long Way Around trip with backup parts and film crew in that deep mud? I had to laugh. I just read a book recently about a guy riding from Mexico to Ushuaia Argentina on a 125 air cooled single cylinder Honda. Smart man it my book. Anybody know if Seafoam makes a bike run leaner? A friend with a Honda Shadow let it sit up too long and I told him to use Seafoam which he did at maybe double what he should. He started it and the pipes got glowing red hot so he shut it off. This bike is a bike he bought at one of those auctions with after market loud pipes and probably isn't jetted correctly. Another friend says Seafoam will make it run lean???? Criswell

[Jeff Khoury]

#ygrps-yiv-1836670057 p {margin:0;}As much as I love my KLR, I'm certainly not going to gloss over its shortcomings. I've said it before, if you want to ride to the trail, ride the trail, then ride home... the KLR is your bike.  That being said, there are many things that KHI could have done to it rather than the minimal overhaul they gave it for '08. The technology now exists to create a bike that comes closer to my personal holy grail.  In my mind they should scrap the KLR line completely in favor of an ER650X... a Versys platform (aluminum frame) with longer-throw aggressive suspension, more aggressive tires and the ER engine with VVT to allow low-end torque without sacrificing HP for cruising.  This would bring weight down, power up and improve overall rideability. The new BMW F650GS (twin) comes close.  It is only a few lbs heavier than a KLR and puts out 71HP stock.  Its suspension is not quite KLR-like enough but I've ridden it and on the freeway it is much more pleasant cruising than the KLR. The KLR is great around town but on the 500+ mile days I've done on it, the engine just does not perform acceptably at cruising speed.  Max sustained cruise is about 75.  Above that the engine feels strained with a 15T, and with a 16T it's gutless.  Torque is fine, but HP is needed as well.  In addition, the geometry of the frame and suspension is rather unstable above 80 or so... I guess that would be a moot point anyway, huh? The beauty of the KLR is in its simplicity.  It is simple to operate and maintain, but it is 1980s technology and it is beginning to show.  We are 10 years into the new millennium we should at least have a PGM FI engine by now.  Seriously.  Even Harleys are FI nowadays. I read somewhere that the KLR is KHI's #5 selling model.  They could seriously boost that by applying some of their more modern technology and introducing a bike worthy of their name.  It wouldn't even take that much engineering because the frame and engine already exist and are proven, reliable items. If you are into deeper stuff than that bike could handle you'd probably be better off with a DR-Z400, a KLX250 or a WR250. -Jeff Khoury [b]From: [/b]roncriswell@... [b]To: [/b]"KLR Group" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com>, "GARY PATTERSON" , "Don & Jewel Gil" , CurtisDrew@..., "Michael McSpadden" , "Mick Laird" , "Mark Bumgarner" , "Ramey" , "rocky heuer" [b]Sent: [/b]Sunday, October 31, 2010 7:03:56 AM [b]Subject: [/b][DSN_KLR650] KLR vereses the Yamaha Tenere   As an old dirtbike rider like probably most of you are, I get so tired of when the so called next big adventure comes out (emphasis on big). Isn't every bike an adventure? The only adventure you might experience on the Yamaha Tenere is when if you are so stupid to take it down a deep gravel road, a muddy road, a talcum powder sandy road and have to pick the big turd up by yourself. I get hooked into these things every time a new one comes out (until I read the weight). To me weight is everything on a bike that is supposed to be able to go anywhere. You can get away with a bad suspension, under powered the lighter the bike is. I know, I still went more hard rough places on my 100 cc Hodaka than any other bike I have owned and I have had more powerful better suspentioned dirt bikes. I keep waiting for somebody to make a better KLR or Suzuki DR 650. Something under 300 pounds single cylinder with maybe 50 torquey ponies with a great suspension, 4 gallon or so tank, and a comfortable seat. Nine gallon tank, I don't want, 100 high reving ponies I don't need. I had to laugh when the guy that wrote about the Tenere said he went on a 3 day 600 mile trip. WHOOO HOO! I hate to tell him I have done numerous 500 - 600 - and 700 mile days on my KLR (with a Corbin). I have had it up around 100 mph on full 606 knobbies. The only time the power hasn't been adequate was passing a double logging truck in Mexico at 7000 ft. altitude. If the Japanes might build something like the V twin Aprllia dirt bikes with a 4 gallon tank and a comfy seat I might spring for it, but the Tenre, the Multistrada, the KTM 990 or the Beemer GS's, no thanks. The old air head GS Beemrs would be the closest to getting mild interest but still way too heavy and big. I had to laugh once when I rode to Big Bend once on a very windy cold weekend from Dallas with a friend that has the Big Beemer that is like a a Gold Wing with heated grips, CD player and air suspension who was ready to quit after 300 miles. Woosey. And remeber the guys on the big Beemers on the Long Way Around trip with backup parts and film crew in that deep mud? I had to laugh. I just read a book recently about a guy riding from Mexico to Ushuaia Argentina on a 125 air cooled single cylinder Honda. Smart man it my book. Anybody know if Seafoam makes a bike run leaner? A friend with a Honda Shadow let it sit up too long and I told him to use Seafoam which he did at maybe double what he should. He started it and the pipes got glowing red hot so he shut it off. This bike is a bike he bought at one of those auctions with after market loud pipes and probably isn't jetted correctly. Another friend says Seafoam will make it run lean???? Criswell

[roncriswell@sbcglobal.net]

I agree that the KLR is way down there on the perfect go anywhere bike especially on the tech side. I don't think though the DRZ400, the KLX or the WR is quite right either. A friend and I went riding in Utah and he was on the DRZ 400 and he really was straining to stay up on the highway. I run mine at 5200 rpm all day long on the highway (sometimes higher) with no complaints or noticeable oil usage at 53,000 miles. My point was / is the GS's, as are Ktm 990's, Multistradas, Tenere's and the like are way off the mark at a whole lot more dinero. I am still wondering why Honda with the XR 650 R's didn't put a starter, and street lights on it??? That is more what I would like, not a Transalp. And I don't want to pay BMW prices and probably couldn't work on it like I do my KLR. Criswell

On Oct 31, 2010, at 2:20 PM, Jeff Khoury wrote:   As much as I love my KLR, I'm certainly not going to gloss over its shortcomings. I've said it before, if you want to ride to the trail, ride the trail, then ride home... the KLR is your bike.  That being said, there are many things that KHI could have done to it rather than the minimal overhaul they gave it for '08. The technology now exists to create a bike that comes closer to my personal holy grail.  In my mind they should scrap the KLR line completely in favor of an ER650X... a Versys platform (aluminum frame) with longer-throw aggressive suspension, more aggressive tires and the ER engine with VVT to allow low-end torque without sacrificing HP for cruising.  This would bring weight down, power up and improve overall rideability. The new BMW F650GS (twin) comes close.  It is only a few lbs heavier than a KLR and puts out 71HP stock.  Its suspension is not quite KLR-like enough but I've ridden it and on the freeway it is much more pleasant cruising than the KLR. The KLR is great around town but on the 500+ mile days I've done on it, the engine just does not perform acceptably at cruising speed.  Max sustained cruise is about 75.  Above that the engine feels strained with a 15T, and with a 16T it's gutless.  Torque is fine, but HP is needed as well.  In addition, the geometry of the frame and suspension is rather unstable above 80 or so... I guess that would be a moot point anyway, huh? The beauty of the KLR is in its simplicity.  It is simple to operate and maintain, but it is 1980s technology and it is beginning to show.  We are 10 years into the new millennium we should at least have a PGM FI engine by now.  Seriously.  Even Harleys are FI nowadays. I read somewhere that the KLR is KHI's #5 selling model.  They could seriously boost that by applying some of their more modern technology and introducing a bike ! worthy of their name.  It wouldn't even take that much engineering because the frame and engine already exist and are proven, reliable items. If you are into deeper stuff than that bike could handle you'd probably be better off with a DR-Z400, a KLX250 or a WR250. -Jeff Khoury [b]From: [/b]roncriswell@... [b]To: [/b]"KLR Group" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com>, "GARY PATTERSON" , "Don & Jewel Gil" , CurtisDrew@..., "Michael McSpadden" , "Mick Laird" , "Mark Bumgarner" , "Ramey" , "rocky heuer" [b]Sent: [/b]Sunday, October 31, 2010 7:03:56 AM [b]Subject: [/b][DSN_KLR650] KLR vereses the Yamaha Tenere   As an old dirtbike rider like probably most of you are, I get so tired of when the so called next big adventure comes out (emphasis on big). Isn't every bike an adventure? The only adventure you might experience on the Yamaha Tenere is when if you are so stupid to take it down a deep gravel road, a muddy road, a talcum powder sandy road and have to pick the big turd up by yourself. I get hooked into these things every time a new one comes out (until I read the weight). To me weight is everything on a bike that is supposed to be able to go anywhere. You can get away with a bad suspension, under powered the lighter the bike is. I know, I still went more hard rough places on my 100 cc Hodaka than any other bike I have owned and I have had more powerful better suspentioned dirt bikes. I keep waiting for somebody to make a better KLR or Suzuki DR 650. Something under 300 pounds single cylinder with maybe 50 torquey ponies with a great suspension, 4 gallon or so tank, and a comfortable seat. Nine gallon tank, I don't want, 100 high reving ponies I don't need. I had to laugh when the guy that wrote about the Tenere said he went on a 3 day 600 mile trip. WHOOO HOO! I hate to tell him I have done numerous 500 - 600 - and 700 mile days on my KLR (with a Corbin). I have had it up around 100 mph on full 606 knobbies. The only time the power hasn't been adequate was passing a double logging truck in Mexico at 7000 ft. altitude. If the Japanes might build something like the V twin Aprllia dirt bikes with a 4 gallon tank and a comfy seat I might spring for it, but the Tenre, the Multistrada, the KTM 990 or the Beemer GS's, no thanks. The old air head GS Beemrs would be the closest to getting mild interest but still way too heavy and big. I had to laugh once when I rode to Big Bend once on a very windy cold weekend from Dallas with a friend that has the Big Beemer that is like a a Gold Wing with heated grips, CD player and air suspension who was ready to quit after 300 miles. Woosey. And remeber the guys on the big Beemers on the Long Way Around trip with backup parts and film crew in that deep mud? I had to laugh. I just read a book recently about a guy riding from Mexico to Ushuaia Argentina on a 125 air cooled single cylinder Honda. Smart man it my book. Anybody know if Seafoam makes a bike run leaner? A friend with a Honda Shadow let it sit up too long and I told him to use Seafoam which he did at maybe double what he should. He started it and the pipes got glowing red hot so he shut it off. This bike is a bike he bought at one of those auctions with after market loud pipes and probably isn't jetted correctly. Another friend says Seafoam will make it run lean???? Criswell

[Jud]

Criz, I bet you'd really like my DR650 with the 4.9 gal. IMS tank and the best seat in motorcycling history, a slightly modified Corbin.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "roncriswell@..." wrote: > > I agree that the KLR is way down there on the perfect go anywhere bike especially on the tech side. I don't think though the DRZ400, the KLX or the WR is quite right either. A friend and I went riding in Utah and he was on the DRZ 400 and he really was straining to stay up on the highway. I run mine at 5200 rpm all day long on the highway (sometimes higher) with no complaints or noticeable oil usage at 53,000 miles. My point was / is the GS's, as are Ktm 990's, Multistradas, Tenere's and the like are way off the mark at a whole lot more dinero. I am still wondering why Honda with the XR 650 R's didn't put a starter, and street lights on it??? That is more what I would like, not a Transalp. And I don't want to pay BMW prices and probably couldn't work on it like I do my KLR. > > Criswell > On Oct 31, 2010, at 2:20 PM, Jeff Khoury wrote: > > > > > As much as I love my KLR, I'm certainly not going to gloss over its shortcomings. > > > > I've said it before, if you want to ride to the trail, ride the trail, then ride home... the KLR is your bike. That being said, there are many things that KHI could have done to it rather than the minimal overhaul they gave it for '08. > > > > The technology now exists to create a bike that comes closer to my personal holy grail. In my mind they should scrap the KLR line completely in favor of an ER650X... a Versys platform (aluminum frame) with longer-throw aggressive suspension, more aggressive tires and the ER engine with VVT to allow low-end torque without sacrificing HP for cruising. This would bring weight down, power up and improve overall rideability. > > > > The new BMW F650GS (twin) comes close. It is only a few lbs heavier than a KLR and puts out 71HP stock. Its suspension is not quite KLR-like enough but I've ridden it and on the freeway it is much more pleasant cruising than the KLR. > > > > The KLR is great around town but on the 500+ mile days I've done on it, the engine just does not perform acceptably at cruising speed. Max sustained cruise is about 75. Above that the engine feels strained with a 15T, and with a 16T it's gutless. Torque is fine, but HP is needed as well. In addition, the geometry of the frame and suspension is rather unstable above 80 or so... I guess that would be a moot point anyway, huh? > > > > The beauty of the KLR is in its simplicity. It is simple to operate and maintain, but it is 1980s technology and it is beginning to show. We are 10 years into the new millennium we should at least have a PGM FI engine by now. Seriously. Even Harleys are FI nowadays. > > > > I read somewhere that the KLR is KHI's #5 selling model. They could seriously boost that by applying some of their more modern technology and introducing a bike ! worthy of their name. It wouldn't even take that much engineering because the frame and engine already exist and are proven, reliable items. > > > > If you are into deeper stuff than that bike could handle you'd probably be better off with a DR-Z400, a KLX250 or a WR250. > > > > -Jeff Khoury > > > > > > From: roncriswell@... > > To: "KLR Group" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com>, "GARY PATTERSON" , "Don & Jewel Gil" , CurtisDrew@..., "Michael McSpadden" , "Mick Laird" , "Mark Bumgarner" , "Ramey" , "rocky heuer" > > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 7:03:56 AM > > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] KLR vereses the Yamaha Tenere > > > > > > As an old dirtbike rider like probably most of you are, I get so tired of when the so called next big adventure comes out (emphasis on big). Isn't every bike an adventure? The only adventure you might experience on the Yamaha Tenere is when if you are so stupid to take it down a deep gravel road, a muddy road, a talcum powder sandy road and have to pick the big turd up by yourself. I get hooked into these things every time a new one comes out (until I read the weight). To me weight is everything on a bike that is supposed to be able to go anywhere. You can get away with a bad suspension, under powered the lighter the bike is. I know, I still went more hard rough places on my 100 cc Hodaka than any other bike I have owned and I have had more powerful better suspentioned dirt bikes. I keep waiting for somebody to make a better KLR or Suzuki DR 650. Something under 300 pounds single cylinder with maybe 50 torquey ponies with a great suspension, 4 gallon or so tank, and a comfortable seat. Nine gallon tank, I don't want, 100 high reving ponies I don't need. I had to laugh when the guy that wrote about the Tenere said he went on a 3 day 600 mile trip. WHOOO HOO! I hate to tell him I have done numerous 500 - 600 - and 700 mile days on my KLR (with a Corbin). I have had it up around 100 mph on full 606 knobbies. The only time the power hasn't been adequate was passing a double logging truck in Mexico at 7000 ft. altitude. If the Japanes might build something like the V twin Aprllia dirt bikes with a 4 gallon tank and a comfy seat I might spring for it, but the Tenre, the Multistrada, the KTM 990 or the Beemer GS's, no thanks. The old air head GS Beemrs would be the closest to getting mild interest but still way too heavy and big. I had to laugh once when I rode to Big Bend once on a very windy cold weekend from Dallas with a friend that has the Big Beemer that is like a a Gold Wing with heated grips, CD player and air suspension who was ready to quit after 300 miles. Woosey. And remeber the guys on the big Beemers on the Long Way Around trip with backup parts and film crew in that deep mud? I had to laugh. I just read a book recently about a guy riding from Mexico to Ushuaia Argentina on a 125 air cooled single cylinder Honda. > > Smart man it my book. > > > > Anybody know if Seafoam makes a bike run leaner? A friend with a Honda Shadow let it sit up too long and I told him to use Seafoam which he did at maybe double what he should. He started it and the pipes got glowing red hot so he shut it off. This bike is a bike he bought at one of those auctions with after market loud pipes and probably isn't jetted correctly. Another friend says Seafoam will make it run lean???? > > > > Criswell > > > > > > >

[The Reverend]

The thing is the price point. The reason I love the KLR is because it s *[b]dirt cheap[/b]* and if you throw it down a hill, you shrug and pick up another one. For that, I could almost live with the carburetor and the low power. J

 

[b]From:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]Jeff Khoury

The technology now exists to create a bike that comes closer to my personal holy grail.  In my mind they should scrap the KLR line completely in favor of an ER650X... a Versys platform (aluminum frame) with longer-throw aggressive suspension, more aggressive tires and the ER engine with VVT to allow low-end torque without sacrificing HP for cruising.  This would bring weight down, power up and improve overall rideability.

[cycletip@yahoo.com]

Agree with ya Criswel but there is such a bike. Couple from KTM. Just rode with a guy who had a 690 Enduro. Only thing is they cost double a KLR and won't carry / haul goods or a piliion way the KLR does. I lusted after a Hodaka back in the day. DT's, CT's, AT's ruled the roost. For the life of me can't understand why one company hasn't made a DRZ type 650? <>

[roncriswell@sbcglobal.net]

Yeah and that is my problem with KTM. Still the KLR and DR 650 are the two best especially for the buck and hauling. Obviously the KTM's are far better dirt bikes (until you buy parts). Criswell

On Nov 1, 2010, at 6:24 AM, cycletip@... wrote:   Agree with ya Criswell but there is such a bike. Couple from KTM. Just rode with a guy who had a 690 Enduro. Only thing is they cost double a KLR and won't carry / haul goods or a piliion way the KLR does. I lusted after a Hodaka back in the day. DT's, CT's, AT's ruled the roost. For the life of me can't understand why one company hasn't made a DRZ type 650? >

[Jud]

Yah, I have an LC4 Adventure, and it is a very cool bike, faster than a KLR with a lot more, better suspension, but it's edgy and not all that easy to live with, way too tall for me and oil changes go well into the second hour (might be faster with practice and some special bits to speed it along). And did I mention how spendy it is? Yup, DRZ suspension on a DR650 would be the business. Meanwhile, I look at the X-Challenge that Walter Colebatch tarted up for his Sibirsky Extreme adventures and think that might be one way to go, but then you look at the cost of a BMW with all the Touratech accessories, and realize it's even harder to reach than a KTM.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, cycletip@... wrote: > > Agree with ya Criswel but there is such a bike. Couple from KTM. Just rode with a guy who had a 690 Enduro. Only thing is they cost double a KLR and won't carry / haul goods or a piliion way the KLR does. I lusted after a Hodaka back in the day. DT's, CT's, AT's ruled the roost. For the life of me can't understand why one company hasn't made a DRZ type 650? > > > > >

[revmaaatin]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, cycletip@... wrote:

> > Agree with ya Criswel but there is such a bike. Couple from KTM. Just rode with a guy who had a 690 Enduro. Only thing is they cost double a KLR and won't carry / haul goods or a piliion way the KLR does. I lusted after a Hodaka back in the day. DT's, CT's, AT's ruled the roost. For the life of me can't understand why one company hasn't made a DRZ type 650? >

I remember the Hodaka Ad (1974? or 1975?) of circumnavigating Australia on a 100 or 125 Hodaka. Entirely possible if you didn't run it wide open for long stretches. As I recall, the only reported maintenance required was a rear tire. The picture looked like the Beverly Hillbillies on a motorcycle. cough. or like a KLR on a two week trip. I sold Hodaka's for a couple of years. Was unfortunate enough to be a 'dealer' when they went out of business. sigh. The bikes were so simple--except if you ran them at 100% for any length of time, the crank seals failed--quickly. Treated with a small amount of respect, they were quite a bargain. revmaaatin.

[roncriswell@sbcglobal.net]

I rode my Hodaka (ace 100) WFO for 8 years and even won a couple of trophy's on it then sold it in a garage sale for $75. Only time it ever failed me was riding in deep mud with about an inch deep on its cylinder head using a friends highly suspect pre-mix, the dang thing seized on me. New rings, wrist pin and rod bearings and crank pin plus sanding off the dinged piston, she was ready for battle again. Shortly after that I did a spectacular endo (they will wheelie in third over a little rise if you yank hard enough). Broken triple clamp, forks bent severely, plus seat and rear fender. A good aluminum welder fixed the triple clamp, a friend with a press straightened the whimbulley fork tubes, and a sheet of aluminum made a fender. Cheap, fun, durable bike (like the KLR). Criswell

On Nov 1, 2010, at 4:11 PM, revmaaatin wrote:   --- In DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com, cycletip@... wrote: > > Agree with ya Criswel but there is such a bike. Couple from KTM. Just rode with a guy who had a 690 Enduro. Only thing is they cost double a KLR and won't carry / haul goods or a piliion way the KLR does. I lusted after a Hodaka back in the day. DT's, CT's, AT's ruled the roost. For the life of me can't understand why one company hasn't made a DRZ type 650? > I remember the Hodaka Ad (1974? or 1975?) of circumnavigating Australia on a 100 or 125 Hodaka. Entirely possible if you didn't run it wide open for long stretches. As I recall, the only reported maintenance required was a rear tire. The picture looked like the Beverly Hillbillies on a motorcycle. cough. or like a KLR on a two week trip. I sold Hodaka's for a couple of years. Was unfortunate enough to be a 'dealer' when they went out of business. sigh. The bikes were so simple--except if you ran them at 100% for any length of time, the crank seals failed--quickly. Treated with a small amount of respect, they were quite a bargain. revmaaatin.