nklr red-light cameras hurting revenue

[Chris Norloff]

I am speechless ... Red light cameras too good for their own good? Some cities rethink devices as drivers pay heed, reducing fine revenue http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23710970 Chris

[Doug Herr]

On Fri, 18 Apr 2008, Chris Norloff wrote:

> I am speechless ... > > Red light cameras too good for their own good? > Some cities rethink devices as drivers pay heed, reducing fine > revenue > > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23710970

Seems that they are admitting that they *want* us to commit traffic crimes so that they can fine us. Not surprising that it is true, but I am surprised at the basic admission of the fact. Me in my simplicity, really did think that the idea of those cameras was to stop people from running red lights. How silly. -- Doug Herr A16 in Oakland, California

[Stephen Grisanti]

There are other reports indicating that the traffic lights are being adjusted to shorter "yellow" times so that more violators are produced and therefore caught, but that this move is increasing the number of rear-enders when people do try to stop for the lights. Gotta love it. Stephen

--- On Fri, 4/18/08, Doug Herr wrote: > From: Doug Herr > Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] red-light cameras hurting revenue > To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, April 18, 2008, 10:05 AM > On Fri, 18 Apr 2008, Chris Norloff wrote: > > > I am speechless ... > > > > Red light cameras too good for their own good? > > Some cities rethink devices as drivers pay heed, > reducing fine > > revenue > > > > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23710970 > > > Seems that they are admitting that they *want* us to commit > traffic > crimes so that they can fine us. Not surprising that it is > true, but > I am surprised at the basic admission of the fact. > > Me in my simplicity, really did think that the idea of > those cameras > was to stop people from running red lights. How silly. > > > -- > Doug Herr > A16 in Oakland, California > > ------------------------------------ > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: > www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

[Lourd Baltimore]

Some reports for reference: Denver area: http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/23/2300.asp Several areas: http://www.motorists.org/blog/red-light ... or-profit/ As much as I hate having to deal with Quality Assurance in my own job, I wish it to be inflicted upon others in their jobs. . ----- Original Message ---- From: Stephen Grisanti To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com; Doug Herr Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 5:11:57 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] red-light cameras hurting revenue There are other reports indicating that the traffic lights are being adjusted to shorter "yellow" times so that more violators are produced and therefore caught, but that this move is increasing the number of rear-enders when people do try to stop for the lights. Gotta love it. Stephen

--- On Fri, 4/18/08, Doug Herr wrote: > From: Doug Herr > Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] red-light cameras hurting revenue > To: DSN_klr650@yahoogro ups.com > Date: Friday, April 18, 2008, 10:05 AM > On Fri, 18 Apr 2008, Chris Norloff wrote: > > > I am speechless ... > > > > Red light cameras too good for their own good? > > Some cities rethink devices as drivers pay heed, > reducing fine > > revenue > > > > http://www.msnbc. msn.com/id/ 23710970 > > > Seems that they are admitting that they *want* us to commit > traffic > crimes so that they can fine us. Not surprising that it is > true, but > I am surprised at the basic admission of the fact. > > Me in my simplicity, really did think that the idea of > those cameras > was to stop people from running red lights. How silly. > > > -- > Doug Herr > A16 in Oakland, California > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews. com > > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: > www.bigcee.com/ klr650faq. html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr. com/dsnklr650Yah oo! Groups > Links > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. yahoo.com/ ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62s ... o8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[revmaaatin]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Grisanti wrote:

> > There are other reports indicating that the traffic lights are

being adjusted to shorter "yellow" times so that more violators are produced and therefore caught, but that this move is increasing the number of rear-enders when people do try to stop for the lights. Gotta love it.

> > Stephen >

Just to offer a 'counter-example' that not all highway planners and city fathers are myopic in traffic control. Yesterday I was transporting registered Angus bulls (semen bulls-used for semen donation and subsequent artificial insemination) from Central South Dakota, to Hastings, NB on highway US281. Hastings had a different approach to managing red light violators; they offered a flashing yellow light some estimated 200 feet prior to the intersection that the light was going to change soon. "Prepare to Stop when light is flashing" is what I remember the sign saying. Every major intersection along the N/S #281 had the additional warning device. Towing a 24ft gooseneck trailer loaded with Angus beef on a wet, rain swept pavement is annoying but having the little yellow tattletale flashing a warning gave prior notice and helped to keep the truck in control and the cattle contained. and that ain't no Bull. revmaaatin. Who shed yesterday's cowboy costume, and contemplating the KLR costume for a one-hour ride.

[John thomas]

Sooooooooo........ do I stop for the yellow light and get .... CREAMED? Or do I run the yellow and risk a ticket? And do I get off cheaper with the cost of ticket and camera system... or the cost of fire engin, 6-12 police cars, fire chief, tow truck, thousands of delayed commuters and ok yeah mop and bucket to get what is left of me off of the road... hmmmmmmm I do believe I will go with the ticket.... maby on 1 wheel and they won't get my plate Big grinn! Thomas Forest Park Ga. "Old Geezer club member 39.11" 90 Tengai 21,000 miles ----- Original Message ---- From: revmaaatin To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 7:17:33 PM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: red-light cameras hurting revenue --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com, Stephen Grisanti wrote:

> > There are other reports indicating that the traffic lights are

being adjusted to shorter "yellow" times so that more violators are produced and therefore caught, but that this move is increasing the number of rear-enders when people do try to stop for the lights. Gotta love it.

> > Stephen >

Just to offer a 'counter-example' that not all highway planners and city fathers are myopic in traffic control. Yesterday I was transporting registered Angus bulls (semen bulls-used for semen donation and subsequent artificial insemination) from Central South Dakota, to Hastings, NB on highway US281. Hastings had a different approach to managing red light violators; they offered a flashing yellow light some estimated 200 feet prior to the intersection that the light was going to change soon. "Prepare to Stop when light is flashing" is what I remember the sign saying. Every major intersection along the N/S #281 had the additional warning device. Towing a 24ft gooseneck trailer loaded with Angus beef on a wet, rain swept pavement is annoying but having the little yellow tattletale flashing a warning gave prior notice and helped to keep the truck in control and the cattle contained. and that ain't no Bull. revmaaatin. Who shed yesterday's cowboy costume, and contemplating the KLR costume for a one-hour ride. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Randall Marbach]

This sounds like the makings of a great class action lawsuit Imagine all the lawyers out there that would love to go after cities that are violating fundamental safety recommendations wrt to yellow light timing in search of the almighty buck.. Randy from Burbank ----- Original Message ---- From: John thomas To: dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 5:02:08 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: red-light cameras hurting revenue Sooooooooo........ do I stop for the yellow light and get .... CREAMED? Or do I run the yellow and risk a ticket? And do I get off cheaper with the cost of ticket and camera system... or the cost of fire engin, 6-12 police cars, fire chief, tow truck, thousands of delayed commuters and ok yeah mop and bucket to get what is left of me off of the road... hmmmmmmm I do believe I will go with the ticket.... maby on 1 wheel and they won't get my plate Big grinn! Thomas Forest Park Ga. "Old Geezer club member 39.11" 90 Tengai 21,000 miles ----- Original Message ---- From: revmaaatin To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 7:17:33 PM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: red-light cameras hurting revenue --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com, Stephen Grisanti wrote:

> > There are other reports indicating that the traffic lights are

being adjusted to shorter "yellow" times so that more violators are produced and therefore caught, but that this move is increasing the number of rear-enders when people do try to stop for the lights. Gotta love it.

> > Stephen >

Just to offer a 'counter-example' that not all highway planners and city fathers are myopic in traffic control. Yesterday I was transporting registered Angus bulls (semen bulls-used for semen donation and subsequent artificial insemination) from Central South Dakota, to Hastings, NB on highway US281. Hastings had a different approach to managing red light violators; they offered a flashing yellow light some estimated 200 feet prior to the intersection that the light was going to change soon. "Prepare to Stop when light is flashing" is what I remember the sign saying. Every major intersection along the N/S #281 had the additional warning device. Towing a 24ft gooseneck trailer loaded with Angus beef on a wet, rain swept pavement is annoying but having the little yellow tattletale flashing a warning gave prior notice and helped to keep the truck in control and the cattle contained. and that ain't no Bull. revmaaatin. Who shed yesterday's cowboy costume, and contemplating the KLR costume for a one-hour ride. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo! Groups Links ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

[albatrossklr]

Poor bull.. At least stud horses get to have fun making their donations. albatross a crusty old bird who makes his donations the natural way

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "revmaaatin" wrote: > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Grisanti > wrote: > > > > There are other reports indicating that the traffic lights are > being adjusted to shorter "yellow" times so that more violators are > produced and therefore caught, but that this move is increasing the > number of rear-enders when people do try to stop for the lights. > Gotta love it. > > > > Stephen > > > > > Just to offer a 'counter-example' that not all highway planners and > city fathers are myopic in traffic control. > > Yesterday I was transporting registered Angus bulls (semen bulls-used > for semen donation and subsequent artificial insemination) from > Central South Dakota, to Hastings, NB on highway US281. Hastings had > a different approach to managing red light violators; they offered a > flashing yellow light some estimated 200 feet prior to the > intersection that the light was going to change soon. "Prepare to > Stop when light is flashing" is what I remember the sign saying. > Every major intersection along the N/S #281 had the additional > warning device. > > Towing a 24ft gooseneck trailer loaded with Angus beef on a wet, rain > swept pavement is annoying but having the little yellow tattletale > flashing a warning gave prior notice and helped to keep the truck in > control and the cattle contained. and that ain't no Bull. > > revmaaatin. Who shed yesterday's cowboy costume, and contemplating > the KLR costume for a one-hour ride. >

[smthng else]

On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 8:02 PM, John thomas wrote:

> Sooooooooo........ do I stop for the yellow light and get .... CREAMED? > Or do I run the yellow and risk a ticket?

Somewhat OT... I've actually had two tickets tossed out on this. One was a red light camera where it was visible in the photo that I had someone on my tail. The other was the officer's discretion... He was sitting on a side street when I went flying past him on one wheel. Of course, he nabbed me and had the "yer busted" attitude until I explained to him that I was simply getting out of the way of the garbage truck that didn't see me at the last stop light. I'm lucky that the garbage truck locked up his brakes when he finally did see me (he managed to stop exactly where I was before the one-wheel shenanigans). His skid marks were my savior. Don't get me wrong, I'm not usually a "hooligan" type and I didn't even know my little Seca II *could* pull that much of a wheelie until that day. Still... even if you do get a red-light ticket, I'd say your chances of getting it tossed out are about 50/50, even if there isn't someone one your rear in the picture. --Jonathan "smthng" Kalmes Springfield, VA 2005 Yamaha FJR1300ABS - "Blue Bayou" 2006 Jeep Unlimited Rubicon - "Teflon" http://smthng.info "Look, the truth is, I've been trying to save the world, one person at a time, but, I'm meant for smthng bigger. Smthng important. I know it now."

[E.L. Green]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, John thomas wrote:

> Sooooooooo........ do I stop for the yellow light and get ....

CREAMED?

> Or do I run the yellow and risk a ticket?

That depends on what you're driving/riding. All cars today have extensive crumple zones front and back so getting creamed from the rear is probably the safest thing that can happen to you, both your sheetmetal and the sheetmetal of the vehicle behind you will crumple and absorb much of the force (and, alas, I have multiple first-hand experience with this phenomenon). So I'd prefer getting creamed from the rear to being t-boned from the side. Getting creamed from the rear is much safer. Unless you're driving a Pinto or Crown Victoria. Or riding a motorcycle. On the other hand, getting t-boned from the side by someone going 35mph is always going to be hospital time or even hearse time if it's someone t-boning you from the left (driver's side). As for Rev's blinking "prepare to stop" lights, many higher-speed state highways have them around here. If the speed limit is 55mph but there's a stoplight ahead, it gives you warning to slow down so you can stop in a reasonable distance at the stoplight. The most dangerous stop lights around here are the ones on the 45mph roads -- California pretty much won't give you a ticket until you're going ten over unless some cop is *really* bored (or if you're going through one of the various speed trap towns of course), so cars are going 55mph on those when it's really not safe because the yellow time is set for 45mph and you're going too fast to see the pedestrian crosswalk signals until you're in the intersection. That's the kind of situation where I'm *really* looking for escape routes on my KLR -- I have no idea whether the person behind me is going to stop or not, or whether the person coming from the side is going to stop or not, so I'm going nuts trying to figure out where to send my KLR if either of them does something stupid. -E