Re: making movies of screen action (was: Re: [cadintoshmac] Another

[thorstenlemke]

Attachments :Hello,
ah - that can be done with the graphics tool:
Thorsten[img]cid:E82A81D2-1934-4F46-BF33-DC22F59AEF53[/img]

> you can transfer the content from one layer to another with the transfer function in the layer menu.

Thorsten - I have done that, but what Ken & I would like to see is the possibility of selecting one object from among many in layer A and copying that object only to layer B. Perhaps I have misunderstood, and there is already an easy way to do that, but I have not been able to find it!

in friendship

Rowland

[RowlandCarson]

On 2016-03-19, at 16:11, Thorsten Lemke lemke@lemkesoft.de [cadintoshmac] wrote:

> Hello,
>
> ah - that can be done with the graphics tool:
>
> Thorsten
>
>>
>> > you can transfer the content from one layer to another with the transfer function in the layer menu.
>>
>> Thorsten - I have done that, but what Ken & I would like to see is the possibility of selecting one object from among many in layer A and copying that object only to layer B. Perhaps I have misunderstood, and there is already an easy way to do that, but I have not been able to find it!

Thorsten - thanks for the clarification - I’ll give it a try shortly to make sure I understand the process; maybe this answers Ken’s requirement too.

in friendship

Rowland

| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
| pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson

[Ken Gillett]

No, I don’t think it solves the problem.

Currently with the Layer menu you can:-

copy/duplicate an entire layer.

Or with the ‘Apply Layer’ graphics tool:-

‘move' an individual or selected group of objects to a different layer

both of which are valid and useful functions, but not what I so often need to do, which is to:-

COPY individual or selected group of objects to a different layer

I often find I have a drawing with many objects and need to duplicate some of those objects to a different layer as the basis for creating a variation of the original drawing. I need to end up with 2 independent drawings, each in a different layer, but I don’t want to waste time starting completely from scratch when I already have what I need to start the second variation. But I have not been able to find a way to achieve this. I might be able to duplicate the entire layer and delete what I then don’t need, but I might only want a very small part of the original drawing and so this is not efficient. Sometimes, I might need to duplicate some objects to a different layer which already exists with a drawing and it would be impossible to simply duplicate the entire layer just to copy a few needed objects.

I realise the ‘Apply Layer’ tool implies simply moving the objects, we could rename the tool?

Many of the tools use a 0 or 1 parameter to specify whether the selected process should apply to the original objects or to create a copy, like the ‘Move’ tool which can simply move the selected object to the specified location, or duplicate it and place the new copy in that new location. That’s how I envisage a modified ‘Layer’ tool would work. Select the object(s) individually or with a marquee and prior to performing the action we need to enter 0 or 1 so the selected objects are either ‘moved’ to the specified layer, or a copy of them is placed there instead, leaving the originals in place.

I’ve always needed this facility and yet been surprised that Cadintosh cannot do it as it seems such an obvious requirement and a missing function that ought to be there.

If I’m wrong and this is already possible then I’m sorry for asking and please tell me how, but I’m pretty sure it cannot be done.

> On 19 Mar 2016, at 16:24, Rowland Carson rowlandcarson@gmail.com [cadintoshmac] wrote:
>
> On 2016-03-19, at 16:11, Thorsten Lemke lemke@lemkesoft.de [cadintoshmac] wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> ah - that can be done with the graphics tool:
>>
>> Thorsten
>>
>>>
>>>> you can transfer the content from one layer to another with the transfer function in the layer menu.
>>>
>>> Thorsten - I have done that, but what Ken & I would like to see is the possibility of selecting one object from among many in layer A and copying that object only to layer B. Perhaps I have misunderstood, and there is already an easy way to do that, but I have not been able to find it!
>
> Thorsten - thanks for the clarification - I’ll give it a try shortly to make sure I understand the process; maybe this answers Ken’s requirement too.
>
> in friendship
>
> Rowland

Ken G i l l e t t

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

[Al Szymanski]

Can you not just save each of those objects in your very own library? Then pull them out of the library and drop them where you need them?

al

On Mar 19, 2016, at 10:20 AM, Ken Gillett kengroups@ukgb.net [cadintoshmac] wrote:

> No, I don’t think it solves the problem.
>
> Currently with the Layer menu you can:-
>
> copy/duplicate an entire layer.
>
> Or with the ‘Apply Layer’ graphics tool:-
>
> ‘move' an individual or selected group of objects to a different layer
>
> both of which are valid and useful functions, but not what I so often need to do, which is to:-
>
> COPY individual or selected group of objects to a different layer
>
> I often find I have a drawing with many objects and need to duplicate some of those objects to a different layer as the basis for creating a variation of the original drawing. I need to end up with 2 independent drawings, each in a different layer, but I don’t want to waste time starting completely from scratch when I already have what I need to start the second variation. But I have not been able to find a way to achieve this. I might be able to duplicate the entire layer and delete what I then don’t need, but I might only want a very small part of the original drawing and so this is not efficient. Sometimes, I might need to duplicate some objects to a different layer which already exists with a drawing and it would be impossible to simply duplicate the entire layer just to copy a few needed objects.
>
> I realise the ‘Apply Layer’ tool implies simply moving the objects, we could rename the tool?
>
> Many of the tools use a 0 or 1 parameter to specify whether the selected process should apply to the original objects or to create a copy, like the ‘Move’ tool which can simply move the selected object to the specified location, or duplicate it and place the new copy in that new location. That’s how I envisage a modified ‘Layer’ tool would work. Select the object(s) individually or with a marquee and prior to performing the action we need to enter 0 or 1 so the selected objects are either ‘moved’ to the specified layer, or a copy of them is placed there instead, leaving the originals in place.
>
> I’ve always needed this facility and yet been surprised that Cadintosh cannot do it as it seems such an obvious requirement and a missing function that ought to be there.
>
> If I’m wrong and this is already possible then I’m sorry for asking and please tell me how, but I’m pretty sure it cannot be done.
>
>
>> On 19 Mar 2016, at 16:24, Rowland Carson rowlandcarson@gmail.com [cadintoshmac] wrote:
>>
>> On 2016-03-19, at 16:11, Thorsten Lemke lemke@lemkesoft.de [cadintoshmac] wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> ah - that can be done with the graphics tool:
>>>
>>> Thorsten
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> you can transfer the content from one layer to another with the transfer function in the layer menu.
>>>>
>>>> Thorsten - I have done that, but what Ken & I would like to see is the possibility of selecting one object from among many in layer A and copying that object only to layer B. Perhaps I have misunderstood, and there is already an easy way to do that, but I have not been able to find it!
>>
>> Thorsten - thanks for the clarification - I’ll give it a try shortly to make sure I understand the process; maybe this answers Ken’s requirement too.
>>
>> in friendship
>>
>> Rowland
>
>
>
> Ken G i l l e t t
>
> _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>

[thorstenlemke]

Dear Ken,

thanks for the details.

I add that to the todo list.

Thorsten

>
>
> No, I don’t think it solves the problem.
>
> Currently with the Layer menu you can:-
>
> copy/duplicate an entire layer.
>
> Or with the ‘Apply Layer’ graphics tool:-
>
> ‘move' an individual or selected group of objects to a different layer
>
> both of which are valid and useful functions, but not what I so often need to do, which is to:-
>
> COPY individual or selected group of objects to a different layer
>
> I often find I have a drawing with many objects and need to duplicate some of those objects to a different layer as the basis for creating a variation of the original drawing. I need to end up with 2 independent drawings, each in a different layer, but I don’t want to waste time starting completely from scratch when I already have what I need to start the second variation. But I have not been able to find a way to achieve this. I might be able to duplicate the entire layer and delete what I then don’t need, but I might only want a very small part of the original drawing and so this is not efficient. Sometimes, I might need to duplicate some objects to a different layer which already exists with a drawing and it would be impossible to simply duplicate the entire layer just to copy a few needed objects.
>
> I realise the ‘Apply Layer’ tool implies simply moving the objects, we could rename the tool?
>
> Many of the tools use a 0 or 1 parameter to specify whether the selected process should apply to the original objects or to create a copy, like the ‘Move’ tool which can simply move the selected object to the specified location, or duplicate it and place the new copy in that new location. That’s how I envisage a modified ‘Layer’ tool would work. Select the object(s) individually or with a marquee and prior to performing the action we need to enter 0 or 1 so the selected objects are either ‘moved’ to the specified layer, or a copy of them is placed there instead, leaving the originals in place.
>
> I’ve always needed this facility and yet been surprised that Cadintosh cannot do it as it seems such an obvious requirement and a missing function that ought to be there.
>
> If I’m wrong and this is already possible then I’m sorry for asking and please tell me how, but I’m pretty sure it cannot be done.
>
>
>> On 19 Mar 2016, at 16:24, Rowland Carson rowlandcarson@gmail.com [cadintoshmac] wrote:
>>
>> On 2016-03-19, at 16:11, Thorsten Lemke lemke@lemkesoft.de [cadintoshmac] wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> ah - that can be done with the graphics tool:
>>>
>>> Thorsten
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> you can transfer the content from one layer to another with the transfer function in the layer menu.
>>>>
>>>> Thorsten - I have done that, but what Ken & I would like to see is the possibility of selecting one object from among many in layer A and copying that object only to layer B. Perhaps I have misunderstood, and there is already an easy way to do that, but I have not been able to find it!
>>
>> Thorsten - thanks for the clarification - I’ll give it a try shortly to make sure I understand the process; maybe this answers Ken’s requirement too.
>>
>> in friendship
>>
>> Rowland
>
>

[Ken Gillett]

Yes, that would be possible, but not the ‘right’ way. The symbol library is really for repeated use of the same object, but we’re discussing just a one-off ‘copy this object to a different layer’. If you had to do this via the library as you suggest it would involve creating the library symbol, placing it in the other layer and then deleting it from the library which is 3 times the number of steps it should be.

You could use that same circuitous route via the library to copy an object to a different location on the same layer, but the correct and more efficient way is to use the ‘Move’ tool and tell it to make a copy in the desired location rather than simply move the original. Having to add to the library every time would be nightmare slow. What I’m suggesting it that we have the same ‘move’ or ‘copy’ option with the Layer tool as we currently have in the Move and other tools.

Hopefully Thorsten will be able to incorporate this in good time.

> On 19 Mar 2016, at 17:49, Al Szymanski aszy@mac.com [cadintoshmac] wrote:
>
> Can you not just save each of those objects in your very own library? Then pull them out of the library and drop them where you need them?
>
> al
>
> On Mar 19, 2016, at 10:20 AM, Ken Gillett kengroups@ukgb.net [cadintoshmac] wrote:
>
>> No, I don’t think it solves the problem.
>>
>> Currently with the Layer menu you can:-
>>
>> copy/duplicate an entire layer.
>>
>> Or with the ‘Apply Layer’ graphics tool:-
>>
>> ‘move' an individual or selected group of objects to a different layer
>>
>> both of which are valid and useful functions, but not what I so often need to do, which is to:-
>>
>> COPY individual or selected group of objects to a different layer
>>
>> I often find I have a drawing with many objects and need to duplicate some of those objects to a different layer as the basis for creating a variation of the original drawing. I need to end up with 2 independent drawings, each in a different layer, but I don’t want to waste time starting completely from scratch when I already have what I need to start the second variation. But I have not been able to find a way to achieve this. I might be able to duplicate the entire layer and delete what I then don’t need, but I might only want a very small part of the original drawing and so this is not efficient. Sometimes, I might need to duplicate some objects to a different layer which already exists with a drawing and it would be impossible to simply duplicate the entire layer just to copy a few needed objects.
>>
>> I realise the ‘Apply Layer’ tool implies simply moving the objects, we could rename the tool?
>>
>> Many of the tools use a 0 or 1 parameter to specify whether the selected process should apply to the original objects or to create a copy, like the ‘Move’ tool which can simply move the selected object to the specified location, or duplicate it and place the new copy in that new location. That’s how I envisage a modified ‘Layer’ tool would work. Select the object(s) individually or with a marquee and prior to performing the action we need to enter 0 or 1 so the selected objects are either ‘moved’ to the specified layer, or a copy of them is placed there instead, leaving the originals in place.
>>
>> I’ve always needed this facility and yet been surprised that Cadintosh cannot do it as it seems such an obvious requirement and a missing function that ought to be there.
>>
>> If I’m wrong and this is already possible then I’m sorry for asking and please tell me how, but I’m pretty sure it cannot be done.
>>
>>
>>> On 19 Mar 2016, at 16:24, Rowland Carson rowlandcarson@gmail.com [cadintoshmac] wrote:
>>>
>>> On 2016-03-19, at 16:11, Thorsten Lemke lemke@lemkesoft.de [cadintoshmac] wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> ah - that can be done with the graphics tool:
>>>>
>>>> Thorsten
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> you can transfer the content from one layer to another with the transfer function in the layer menu.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thorsten - I have done that, but what Ken & I would like to see is the possibility of selecting one object from among many in layer A and copying that object only to layer B. Perhaps I have misunderstood, and there is already an easy way to do that, but I have not been able to find it!
>>>
>>> Thorsten - thanks for the clarification - I’ll give it a try shortly to make sure I understand the process; maybe this answers Ken’s requirement too.
>>>
>>> in friendship
>>>
>>> Rowland
>>
>>

Ken G i l l e t t

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

[thorstenlemke]

Dear Ken,
please view my short tutorial movie at:http://www.lemkesoft.org/help/transform_and_layer.mp4
I transform a part first with the option copy 1 time.Now I change the layer of the copied part.
It works perfectly. All symbols are still intact - as exspected.
So, where is the exact problem?

No, I don’t think it solves the problem.

Currently with the Layer menu you can:-

copy/duplicate an entire layer.

Or with the ‘Apply Layer’ graphics tool:-

‘move' an individual or selected group of objects to a different layer

both of which are valid and useful functions, but not what I so often need to do, which is to:-

COPY individual or selected group of objects to a different layer

[Ken Gillett]

If you are referring to my request for a ‘COPY to new layer’ function/tool, then yes, what you show has always been possible, but it’s a 2 stage process, copy first (to a different location) and then move one copy to a different layer. But:-

1 • It takes twice as many steps as the function I am requesting

2 • The object(s) in the one of the layers is not in the correct position.

Point 1 might be considered trivial in isolation, but when many operations are required, having to perform twice as many for everything is obviously inefficient and wastes a lot of time. Apply line width, or colour etc can all be done by less efficient means, but they have a special tool to make the process simpler, quicker and more efficient. Apply Layer is also valuable, but we need more.

Point 2, more importantly the object(s) in one of the layers (depending on which was actually moved to the new layer) is/are now in the wrong position. When using layers to build up a composite drawing of everything that is required, it is obviously vital that everything is in the correct position. If not, the drawing becomes a useless jumble. Of course, the copied objects in the wrong location can be moved back, but that requires a lot more time setting up to get it all back to the EXACT position.

Overall, both the Move and Apply Layer tools/functions are very valuable in their own right, but when you want to COPY selected objects to a different layer, there is no way to easily do it and it is something that I need to do so very often (and I would think others too) that it needs some additional feature/function/tool in Cadintosh to make it a quicker, simpler, more efficient process.

If however you are referring to the problem of missing symbols, then I’m not sure why you are showing that video, since you are not performing the actions I have described that causes the symbol instances to be deleted. What you demonstrate has always worked perfectly, but that is not the problem. Follow the simple steps I have described, it is not a complicated process to demonstrate - only 2 steps:-

• Open document (as I sent it) in Cadintosh
• Use Layer/Duplicate… (type in the layer numbers and press return)

and hey presto! All symbol instances vanish from my screen. Do the symbol instances vanish from the drawing when you do this? If so, then you can look into what is causing it. If not, then we need to find out why it is occurring for me and not for you. As I said, I’m not doing anything complicated.

A suggestion/request that affects both is to be able to make use of the clipboard to copy and paste objects, any objects. We’d need a selection tool and the appropriate Edit menu items would need to be enabled, but being able to Copy and Paste could provide the additional ‘Copy to Layer’ function I have been requesting and also when objects go missing from a document, being able to copy them from another backup doc. would be invaluable.

This feature would need:-

• To work between layers and different documents. In other words, Copy from one document and layer and Paste into any other layer in any open document, obviously with the ability to paste multiple times into multiple destinations. Just go to the document, select the required layer and Paste.

• The Pasted object(s) must be placed at the exact same co-ordinates as they were in the layer from which they were copied.

• Symbol instances would need to ‘linked’ to the appropriate symbol in the library of the recipient doc. I don’t know how Cadintosh links instances to their library symbol, but it would need to be able to do this and if there is no such symbol in the library of the recipient doc, create one.

If I’m mistaken and Cadintosh can already Copy and Paste, then please correct me, but I’ve never been able to get it to do anything like that and I think it would an incredibly useful feature.

> On 24 Mar 2016, at 22:11, Thorsten Lemke lemke@lemkesoft.de [cadintoshmac] wrote:
>
> Dear Ken,
>
>
> please view my short tutorial movie at:
> http://www.lemkesoft.org/help/transform_and_layer.mp4
>
> I transform a part first with the option copy 1 time.
> Now I change the layer of the copied part.
>
> It works perfectly. All symbols are still intact - as exspected.
>
> So, where is the exact problem?
>>
>>
>> No, I don’t think it solves the problem.
>>
>> Currently with the Layer menu you can:-
>>
>> copy/duplicate an entire layer.
>>
>> Or with the ‘Apply Layer’ graphics tool:-
>>
>> ‘move' an individual or selected group of objects to a different layer
>>
>> both of which are valid and useful functions, but not what I so often need to do, which is to:-
>>
>> COPY individual or selected group of objects to a different layer
>>

Ken G i l l e t t

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

[thorstenlemke]

Dear Ken,
please download build 272 at:
http://www.lemkesoft.org/beta.html
That does fix the issue.

Thorsten

[Ken Gillett]

Yay! Thanks Thorsten, that does indeed fix the problem. Now I can duplicate layers without losing stuff.

This can be used as a get around to copy objects to another layer. Duplicate the original to a spare empty layer, then ‘Apply Layer’ to the objects you need from that intermediate layer which you then delete. This way, you get the objects you need, copied to the required destination layer, in the exact same location as in the original layer. So this ‘can’ do what is required, but it’s still a rather convoluted process.

I still think we need the ability to copy and paste between docs/layers though. That would be terrific in so many ways, not just for this.

> On 25 Mar 2016, at 10:01, Thorsten Lemke lemke@lemkesoft.de [cadintoshmac] wrote:
>
> Dear Ken,
>
>
> please download build 272 at:
>
> http://www.lemkesoft.org/beta.html
>
> That does fix the issue.
>
>
> Thorsten

Ken G i l l e t t

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/