Re: home made treads and wheels

christopher_balke · Post by **christopher_balke** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:15 am

Hey anyone make their own wheels and treads that work ?

Chris

David Schulpius · Post by **David Schulpius** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:56 am

Hi Chris,
Are you going to be making your robot mobile or static? Before I start I need to say I have a static B9 and don't have plans to have him roaming around the house or yard. I did however get good set of machined wheels from a club vendor but opted for a set of low cost but high quality treads that are not looped. I just clamped them together where it cant be seen. Also I used shoulder bolts and sleeves instead of bearings and axles.
Check the Vendors area over on our web site for some good choices on available tread section. We have three that offer excellent treads. Barton and Huber offer the non-continuous that need to be clamped and Reinbrecht offers the continuous belt. Several others do the wheels but usually only do runs when enough people want them. They are Barton, Sockwell and Considine. Their wheels are expensive but worth every penny and oh so cool. Here's a link to the vendor list:
http://www.b9robotbuildersclub.com/pub/builders/scrapbooks.html

If you don't plan to motorize the treads and are on a budget you don't have to make the wheels and tread tank tread quality and save some money. Make these part yourself and save. Look through the members web sites and scrapbooks listed over on our website. There are several people that show how they made their own wheels and treads that are listed with links. I know a guy that works at Harley Davidson that made his treads out of Harley fan belts. They looked great and are very strong. I know other builders that made the wheels out of wood. I've seen others make them out of pvc plastic discs and pipe. Still others went to a machine shop and had nice aluminum ones made for them. There are some real nice Blueprints for the wheels and tread belts on our website here:
http://www.b9robotbuildersclub.com/tools/protected/reference/blueprints.html

Take some time and research what others have done. Our links to other members builds is a good way to get ideas and tips:
http://www.b9robotbuildersclub.com/pub/builders/membersites.html

http://www.b9robotbuildersclub.com/pub/builders/scrapbooks.html

It's your robot and wallet. You can go any way your money, talent and imagination leads you.
Just have fun, Dave Schulpius

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 11:15 PM, christopher_balke@yahoo.com [B9Builders] wrote:

Hey anyone make their own wheels and treads that work ?

Chris

toblueiis · Post by **toblueiis** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:08 am

Hello Dave,

That sounds interesting about the guy making his belts out of Harley fan belts. Today with kevlar reinforced belts, that would make a nice, non stretchable belt. I was just looking at some bike tires with kevlar at the store, sold in a box. I was thinking that it would be nice if they could be used in making poured belts, where this portion of the tire was embedded in the pour for strength. Was wondering how well they would bond together.

Do you have any more info on the Harley guy's belts? Maybe he will see this thread and chime in.

thanks,

David M.

--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 1/23/16, David Schulpius dschulpius@wi.rr.com [B9Builders] wrote:

Subject: Re: [B9Builders] home made treads and wheels
To: "Tobor001@aol.com [B9Builders]"
Date: Saturday, January 23, 2016, 8:55 AM

Hi Chris,
Are you going to be making your
robot mobile or static? Before I start I need to say I have
a static B9 and don't have plans to have him roaming
around the house or yard. I did however get good set of
machined wheels from a club vendor but opted for a set of
low cost but high quality treads that are not looped. I just
clamped them together where it cant be seen. Also I used
shoulder bolts and sleeves instead of bearings and
axles.
Check the Vendors area over on our
web site for some good choices on available tread section.
We have three that offer excellent treads. Barton and Huber
offer the non-continuous that need to be clamped and
Reinbrecht offers the continuous belt. Several others do the
wheels but usually only do runs when enough people want
them. They are Barton, Sockwell and Considine. Their
wheels are expensive but worth every penny and oh so cool.
Here's a link to the vendor list:
http://www.b9robotbuildersclub.com/pub/builders/scrapbooks.html

If you don't plan to motorize
the treads and are on a budget you don't have to make
the wheels and tread tank tread quality and save some money.
Make these part yourself and save. Look through the members
web sites and scrapbooks listed over on our website. There
are several people that show how they made their own wheels
and treads that are listed with links. I know a guy that
works at Harley Davidson that made his treads out of Harley
fan belts. They looked great and are very strong. I know
other builders that made the wheels out of wood. I've
seen others make them out of pvc plastic discs and pipe.
Still others went to a machine shop and had nice aluminum
ones made for them. There are some real nice Blueprints for
the wheels and tread belts on our website here:
http://www.b9robotbuildersclub.com/tools/protected/reference/blueprints.html

Take some time and research what
others have done. Our links to other members builds is a
good way to get ideas and tips:
http://www.b9robotbuildersclub.com/pub/builders/membersites.html

http://www.b9robotbuildersclub.com/pub/builders/scrapbooks.html

It's your robot and wallet. You
can go any way your money, talent and imagination leads
you.
Just have fun, Dave Schulpius
On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at
11:15 PM, christopher_balke@yahoo.com
[B9Builders]
wrote:

Hey anyone make their own wheels and treads that
work ?

Chris

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David Schulpius · Post by **David Schulpius** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:59 am

The guy I know is Jim W. over in Sussex WI. He's a very busy guy that I only met once a few years ago when I started building my B9. A friend took me over to his house to see his various collections, B9 and other robots. Wow! what a collection this guy has! I was in heaven all evening. Anyway, He's a follow B9 Builders Club member (B9-0033) but has drifted away towards other interests and paths. His awesome motorized B9 is very close to being finished and he told me that evening that we really wanted to get back to work on his B9 to finish it someday. I've lost track of him sense and don't know what he's done to his B9, if anything.
I do know a little something about Kevlar and based on what I read. I was doing research on what type of synthetic cable to use on my B9 Arm retraction platform and my first thought was Kevlar cable. I found some siprising things about it and decided not to use it. I don't know if it would be the right material to use in tread belts. However I could be wrong. Seems that Kevlar tends to fatigue, creep and fail. Here's just a little peace of info I found on this issue:

The tensile, creep and tension-tension fatigue properties of Kevlar-49 fibre (formerly known as PRD-49) have been determined. The fracture morphology of the fibre has been examined and is shown to be complex due to considerable splitting. The fibre quickly stabilizes under a steady load but failure due to creep can occur when it is loaded very near to its simple tensile breaking load. Kevlar-49 has been found to fail by fatigue, and its fatigue lifetime is dependent on the amplitude of the applied oscillatory load as well as the maximum load to which the fibre is cycled.

Anyway, a better fiber to use would be Vectran. It's amazing stuff and I ended using it in my arm retraction platform. Here's the info on it:
Vectran is a high-performance multifilament yarn spun from liquid crystal polymer (LCP). Vectran is the only commercially available melt spun LCP fiber in the world. Vectran fiber exhibits exceptional strength and rigidity. Pound for pound Vectran fiber is five times stronger than steel and ten times stronger than aluminum. These unique properties characterize Vectran :

High strength and modulus

Excellent creep resistance

High abrasion resistance

Excellent flex/fold characteristics

Minimal moisture absorption

Excellent chemical resistance

Low coefficient of thermal expansion (CTE)

High dielectric strength

Outstanding cut resistance

Excellent property retention at high/low temperatures

Outstanding vibration damping characteristics

High impact resistance

I found all sorts of cable made with Vectran. I ended up using 3/32" "Shine Line". It a synthetic cable with a covered Vectran fiber core. It's as flexible as string and I have a lot of trouble trying to cut it with wire cutters. However a sharp knife or edge will slowly sever it but you cant pull it apart even when it gets down to only a few strands holding. I have it wound tightly on a pulley and it's pulled my heavy B9 arm in and out of the torso hundreds of times with no stretch at all. I'm blown away by this stuff. Here is the cable I used that I bought on Amazon:Shine Line

Anyway, as far as adding reinforcement to out B9 tread belts; there may not be a lot of difference between using Kevlar and Vectran. The load put on the belts may be within Kevlar's tolerances. However if given a choice I'd use Vectran.
Hope this helps, Dave Schulpius
On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 9:05 AM, toblueiis toblueiis@yahoo.com [B9Builders] wrote:

Hello Dave,

That sounds interesting about the guy making his belts out of Harley fan belts. Today with kevlar reinforced belts, that would make a nice, non stretchable belt. I was just looking at some bike tires with kevlar at the store, sold in a box. I was thinking that it would be nice if they could be used in making poured belts, where this portion of the tire was embedded in the pour for strength. Was wondering how well they would bond together.

Do you have any more info on the Harley guy's belts? Maybe he will see this thread and chime in.

thanks,

David M.

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 1/23/16, David Schulpius dschulpius@wi.rr.com [B9Builders] wrote:

Subject: Re: [B9Builders] home made treads and wheels
To: "Tobor001@aol.com [B9Builders]"
Date: Saturday, January 23, 2016, 8:55 AM

Hi Chris,
Are you going to be making your
robot mobile or static? Before I start I need to say I have
a static B9 and don't have plans to have him roaming
around the house or yard. I did however get good set of
machined wheels from a club vendor but opted for a set of
low cost but high quality treads that are not looped. I just
clamped them together where it cant be seen. Also I used
shoulder bolts and sleeves instead of bearings and
axles.
Check the Vendors area over on our
web site for some good choices on available tread section.
We have three that offer excellent treads. Barton and Huber
offer the non-continuous that need to be clamped and
Reinbrecht offers the continuous belt. Several others do the
wheels but usually only do runs when enough people want
them. They are Barton, Sockwell and Considine. Their
wheels are expensive but worth every penny and oh so cool.
Here's a link to the vendor list:
http://www.b9robotbuildersclub.com/pub/builders/scrapbooks.html

If you don't plan to motorize
the treads and are on a budget you don't have to make
the wheels and tread tank tread quality and save some money.
Make these part yourself and save. Look through the members
web sites and scrapbooks listed over on our website. There
are several people that show how they made their own wheels
and treads that are listed with links. I know a guy that
works at Harley Davidson that made his treads out of Harley
fan belts. They looked great and are very strong. I know
other builders that made the wheels out of wood. I've
seen others make them out of pvc plastic discs and pipe.
Still others went to a machine shop and had nice aluminum
ones made for them. There are some real nice Blueprints for
the wheels and tread belts on our website here:
http://www.b9robotbuildersclub.com/tools/protected/reference/blueprints.html

Take some time and research what
others have done. Our links to other members builds is a
good way to get ideas and tips:
http://www.b9robotbuildersclub.com/pub/builders/membersites.html

http://www.b9robotbuildersclub.com/pub/builders/scrapbooks.html

It's your robot and wallet. You
can go any way your money, talent and imagination leads
you.
Just have fun, Dave Schulpius
On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at
11:15 PM, christopher_balke@yahoo.com
[B9Builders]
wrote:

Hey anyone make their own wheels and treads that
work ?

Chris

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toblueiis · Post by **toblueiis** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:18 am

Hello Dave,

Once again, thanks for a lot of great info and insight. I understand what you are saying. Sometimes, a fancy type material seems great to use all around, but may have a subtle weakness where we need it. I know at work, we work with several exotic metals because of the chemicals we work with. Stainless steel isn't one of the exotic metals at all, but we avoid using it in chlorine service because the chlorine can too easily attack the chromium in the stainless steel. Just good old black iron holds up so much better. I have a poster with a quote that says, " the race is not always to the swift, but to those who keep on running ". I have had this poster since a teen and love its' encouragement.

Most of all, we are striving for dependability in our B9 projects.

thanks,

David M.

--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 1/23/16, David Schulpius dschulpius@wi.rr.com [B9Builders] wrote:

Subject: Re: [B9Builders] home made treads and wheels
To: "Tobor001@aol.com [B9Builders]"
Date: Saturday, January 23, 2016, 9:59 AM

The guy I know is Jim W. over in
Sussex WI. He's a very busy guy that I only met once a
few years ago when I started building my B9. A friend took
me over to his house to see his various collections, B9 and
other robots. Wow! what a collection this guy has! I was in
heaven all evening. Anyway, He's a follow B9 Builders
Club member (B9-0033) but has drifted away towards other
interests and paths. His awesome motorized B9 is very close
to being finished and he told me that evening that we really
wanted to get back to work on his B9 to finish it someday.
I've lost track of him sense and don't know what
he's done to his B9, if anything.
I do know a little something about
Kevlar and based on what I read. I was doing research on
what type of synthetic cable to use on my B9 Arm retraction
platform and my first thought was Kevlar cable. I found some
siprising things about it and decided not to use it. I
don't know if it would be the right material to use in
tread belts. However I could be wrong. Seems that Kevlar
tends to fatigue, creep and fail. Here's just a little
peace of info I found on this issue:The tensile, creep and tension-tension
fatigue properties of Kevlar-49 fibre (formerly known as
PRD-49) have been determined. The fracture morphology of the
fibre has been examined and is shown to be complex due to
considerable splitting. The fibre quickly stabilizes under a
steady load but failure due to creep can occur when it is
loaded very near to its simple tensile breaking load.
Kevlar-49 has been found to fail by fatigue, and its fatigue
lifetime is dependent on the amplitude of the applied
oscillatory load as well as the maximum load to which the
fibre is cycled.
Anyway, a better fiber to use
would be Vectran. It's amazing stuff and I ended
using it in my arm retraction platform. Here's the info
on it:
Vectran
is a high-performance multifilament yarn spun from liquid
crystal polymer (LCP). Vectran is the only commercially
available melt spun LCP fiber in the world. Vectran fiber
exhibits exceptional strength and rigidity. Pound for pound
Vectran fiber is five times stronger than steel and ten
times stronger than aluminum. These unique properties
characterize Vectran :High strength and
modulusExcellent creep
resistanceHigh abrasion
resistanceExcellent flex/fold
characteristicsMinimal moisture
absorptionExcellent chemical
resistanceLow coefficient of thermal
expansion (CTE)High dielectric
strengthOutstanding cut
resistanceExcellent property retention at
high/low temperaturesOutstanding vibration
damping characteristicsHigh impact
resistance
I found all sorts of cable made with
Vectran. I ended up using 3/32" "Shine Line".
It a synthetic cable with a covered Vectran fiber core.
It's as flexible as string and I have a lot of trouble
trying to cut it with wire cutters. However a sharp knife or
edge will slowly sever it but you cant pull it apart even
when it gets down to only a few strands holding. I have it
wound tightly on a pulley and it's pulled my heavy B9
arm in and out of the torso hundreds of times with no
stretch at all. I'm blown away by this stuff. Here is
the cable I used that I bought on Amazon:Shine
Line

Anyway, as far as adding
reinforcement to out B9 tread belts; there may not be a
lot of difference between using Kevlar and Vectran. The load
put on the belts may be within Kevlar's tolerances.
However if given a choice I'd use
Vectran.
Hope this
helps, Dave Schulpius
On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at
9:05 AM, toblueiis toblueiis@yahoo.com
[B9Builders]
wrote:

Hello Dave,

That sounds interesting about the guy making his belts out
of Harley fan belts. Today with kevlar reinforced belts,
that would make a nice, non stretchable belt. I was just
looking at some bike tires with kevlar at the store, sold in
a box. I was thinking that it would be nice if they could
be used in making poured belts, where this portion of the
tire was embedded in the pour for strength. Was wondering
how well they would bond together.

Do you have any more info on the Harley guy's belts?
Maybe he will see this thread and chime in.

thanks,

David M.

--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 1/23/16, David Schulpius dschulpius@wi.rr.com
[B9Builders]
wrote:

Subject: Re: [B9Builders] home made treads and wheels

To: "Tobor001@aol.com
[B9Builders]"

Date: Saturday, January 23, 2016, 8:55 AM

Hi Chris,

Are you going to be making your

robot mobile or static? Before I start I need to say I
have

a static B9 and don't have plans to have him roaming

around the house or yard. I did however get good set of

machined wheels from a club vendor but opted for a set
of

low cost but high quality treads that are not looped. I
just

clamped them together where it cant be seen. Also I used

shoulder bolts and sleeves instead of bearings and

axles.

Check the Vendors area over on our

web site for some good choices on available tread
section.

We have three that offer excellent treads. Barton and
Huber

offer the non-continuous that need to be clamped and

Reinbrecht offers the continuous belt. Several others do
the

wheels but usually only do runs when enough people want

them. They are Barton, Sockwell and Considine. Their

wheels are expensive but worth every penny and oh so
cool.

Here's a link to the vendor list:

http://www.b9robotbuildersclub.com/pub/builders/scrapbooks.html

If you don't plan to motorize

the treads and are on a budget you don't have to
make

the wheels and tread tank tread quality and save some
money.

Make these part yourself and save. Look through the
members

web sites and scrapbooks listed over on our website.
There

are several people that show how they made their own
wheels

and treads that are listed with links. I know a guy that

works at Harley Davidson that made his treads out of
Harley

fan belts. They looked great and are very strong. I know

other builders that made the wheels out of wood.
I've

seen others make them out of pvc plastic discs and pipe.

Still others went to a machine shop and had nice
aluminum

ones made for them. There are some real nice Blueprints
for

the wheels and tread belts on our website here:

http://www.b9robotbuildersclub.com/tools/protected/reference/blueprints.html

Take some time and research what

others have done. Our links to other members builds is a

good way to get ideas and tips:

http://www.b9robotbuildersclub.com/pub/builders/membersites.html

http://www.b9robotbuildersclub.com/pub/builders/scrapbooks.html

It's your robot and wallet. You

can go any way your money, talent and imagination leads

you.

Just have fun, Dave Schulpius

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at

11:15 PM, christopher_balke@yahoo.com

[B9Builders]

wrote:

Hey anyone make their own wheels and treads that

work ?

Chris

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Bob Greiner laptop · Post by **Bob Greiner laptop** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:45 am

Chris - I have experimented with several ways of making treads as I wanted to build a mobile robot. Stretching of treads is a problem with most ways if you want to power the treads to move the robot. The ones that worked the best for me I made from a car tire although the tread pattern deviates from the true look of the robot treads, I did not find it objectionable. Being continuous loop I didn t have the problem of joining the ends together. Here is the link to how I did that: http://bobgreiner.tripod.com/id166.htm Below is the link to my previous treads that I made true to the robot look, but even making them from a high durometer rubber they still experienced the stretch problem when driving them. Then the other problem was joining them together, I tried several things summarized here, in the end nothing was perfect. http://bobgreiner.tripod.com/id37.htm The robot tread design was never really made to be driven by the treads, nice look but not practical. But I kind of forced it to work. You can see several things I ve tried on my site, the wheelchair motors worked the best for me and there are no off the shelf components to put it all together. I created my own sprockets etc in my garage and without a machine shop it was very difficult but not impossible. As you can see my robot became mobile, but he is still not finished after all these years! A work in progress and I spent a lot of time experimenting with these things which is the fun of it for me. http://bobgreiner.tripod.com/HTMLobj-3431/My_B9_mobile_at_Buildoff.MOV David Schulpius gave much good advice too that says the rest of it, and there are also other ways to make your robot mobile without fighting the tread issues. Oh and I had purchased from a club vendor my wheels of solid aluminum, I originally tried making them from wood, but that involved cutting a huge amount of circles and trying to join them together, doable, but a huge task, and I didn t feel the would be the best for motorizing and they were hard to finish to look good, so I abandoned that approach and never documented it on my site. I ve been away from my robot project for some time due to health and family things and I try to look in on what s happening on the B9 list now and then so I occasionally chime in. Of course this topic is close to home for me and we still don t have a perfect answer to treads that are drivable and have the B9 look . And of course the problematic design issues that exist with that approach (square slots in a belt driven from inside circumference around a sprocket is all wrong as the slots close up as they bend around a sprocket-which is why you do not find belts made this way). Anyway he challenge is the fun, for me at least and trying to keep the budget low at the same time. And I like to make things from scratch, not always the best solution but been a lot of fun. Bob G. B9-0017 From: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 22, 2016 11:15 PM To: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [B9Builders] home made treads and wheels
Hey anyone make their own wheels and treads that work ?

Chris

toblueiis · Post by **toblueiis** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:09 pm

Hello Bob,

I saw your site and really appreciated how you showed us your efforts. You did a great job. I don't remember seeing what size tire it was that you used. Do you remember? I have made a printed copy of your work, actually your site of b9 projects, and it is filed in my file cabinet. I have three file cabinets of file folders relative to B9 builds, parts, and other relative information. I really appreciate the work of other builders and study their efforts for what I can learn. It is so interesting to see other approaches to the same issues. There is a lot to learn from other builders.

thanks,

David M.

--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 1/23/16, 'Bob Greiner laptop' bobchrisandbuddy@verizon.net [B9Builders] wrote:

Subject: Re: [B9Builders] home made treads and wheels
To: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, January 23, 2016, 10:45 AM

Chris - I have experimented with several ways of
making treads as I
wanted to build a mobile robot. Stretching of treads is a
problem with
most ways if you want to power the treads to move the
robot. The ones that
worked the best for me I made from a car tire although the
tread pattern
deviates from the true look of the robot treads, I did not
find it
objectionable. Being continuous loop I didn t have the
problem of joining the
ends together. Here is the link to how I did that:
http://bobgreiner.tripod.com/id166.htm

Below is the link to my previous treads that I made
true to the robot look,
but even making them from a high durometer rubber they still
experienced the
stretch problem when driving them. Then the other problem
was joining them
together, I tried several things summarized here, in the end
nothing was
perfect.
http://bobgreiner.tripod.com/id37.htm

The robot tread design
was never really made to
be driven by the treads, nice look but not practical. But
I kind of
forced it to work. You can see several things I ve
tried on my site, the
wheelchair motors worked the best for me and there are no
off the shelf
components to put it all together. I created my own
sprockets etc in my garage
and without a machine shop it was very difficult but not
impossible. As you can
see my robot became mobile, but he is still not finished
after all these years!
A work in progress and I spent a lot of time experimenting
with these things
which is the fun of it for me. http://bobgreiner.tripod.com/HTMLobj-3431/My_B9_mobile_at_Buildoff.MOV

David Schulpius gave much
good advice too that
says the rest of it, and there are also other ways to make
your robot mobile
without fighting the tread issues. Oh and I had purchased
from a club vendor my
wheels of solid aluminum, I originally tried making them
from wood, but that
involved cutting a huge amount of circles and trying to join
them together,
doable, but a huge task, and I didn t feel the would be
the best for motorizing
and they were hard to finish to look good, so I abandoned
that approach and
never documented it on my site.

I ve been away from my
robot project for some
time due to health and family things and I try to look in on
what s happening on
the B9 list now and then so I occasionally chime in. Of
course this topic
is close to home for me and we still don t have a perfect
answer to treads that
are drivable and have the B9 look . And of course the
problematic design
issues that exist with that approach (square slots in a belt
driven from inside
circumference around a sprocket is all wrong as the slots
close up as they bend
around a sprocket-which is why you do not find belts made
this way).
Anyway he challenge is the fun, for me at least and trying
to keep the budget
low at the same time. And I like to make things from
scratch, not always the
best solution but been a lot of fun.

Bob G.
B9-0017

From: mailto:B9Builders@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, January 22, 2016 11:15 PM
To: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [B9Builders] home made treads and
wheels

Hey anyone make their own wheels and treads that work ?

Chris

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Bob Greiner laptop · Post by **Bob Greiner laptop** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:28 pm

David-Tire size was buried in there, was a P235/70R16 104S. The O.D. of the tire was 90-3/8" and the O.D. of my old tread belts is 86-3/4. 3-5/8 difference without compensating for the difference in thickness. So it was a little on the long side, I had to loop it over one of the other wheels to take up the slack as my sprockets were about as high inside as I wanted to go with them. Actual length depends on diameter of drive sprockets and spacing of wheels in treadsections and adjustment built into the drive assembly. I made my treadsections before club determined necessary to raise the upper two wheels a bit which would affect the total length also. So what I have is not necessarily accurate for a length and I ve not put the design in CAD to determine just what the actual length would need to be. Bob G. B9-0017 From: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 11:06 AM To: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [B9Builders] home made treads and wheels
Hello Bob,

I saw your site and really appreciated how you showed us your efforts. You did a great job. I don't remember seeing what size tire it was that you used. Do you remember? I have made a printed copy of your work, actually your site of b9 projects, and it is filed in my file cabinet. I have three file cabinets of file folders relative to B9 builds, parts, and other relative information. I really appreciate the work of other builders and study their efforts for what I can learn. It is so interesting to see other approaches to the same issues. There is a lot to learn from other builders.

thanks,

David M.

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 1/23/16, 'Bob Greiner laptop' bobchrisandbuddy@verizon.net [B9Builders] wrote:

Subject: Re: [B9Builders] home made treads and wheels
To: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, January 23, 2016, 10:45 AM

Chris - I have experimented with several ways of
making treads as I
wanted to build a mobile robot. Stretching of treads is a
problem with
most ways if you want to power the treads to move the
robot. The ones that
worked the best for me I made from a car tire although the
tread pattern
deviates from the true look of the robot treads, I did not
find it
objectionable. Being continuous loop I didn t have the
problem of joining the
ends together. Here is the link to how I did that:
http://bobgreiner.tripod.com/id166.htm

Below is the link to my previous treads that I made
true to the robot look,
but even making them from a high durometer rubber they still
experienced the
stretch problem when driving them. Then the other problem
was joining them
together, I tried several things summarized here, in the end
nothing was
perfect.
http://bobgreiner.tripod.com/id37.htm

The robot tread design
was never really made to
be driven by the treads, nice look but not practical. But
I kind of
forced it to work. You can see several things I ve
tried on my site, the
wheelchair motors worked the best for me and there are no
off the shelf
components to put it all together. I created my own
sprockets etc in my garage
and without a machine shop it was very difficult but not
impossible. As you can
see my robot became mobile, but he is still not finished
after all these years!
A work in progress and I spent a lot of time experimenting
with these things
which is the fun of it for me. http://bobgreiner.tripod.com/HTMLobj-34 ... ildoff.MOV

David Schulpius gave much
good advice too that
says the rest of it, and there are also other ways to make
your robot mobile
without fighting the tread issues. Oh and I had purchased
from a club vendor my
wheels of solid aluminum, I originally tried making them
from wood, but that
involved cutting a huge amount of circles and trying to join
them together,
doable, but a huge task, and I didn t feel the would be
the best for motorizing
and they were hard to finish to look good, so I abandoned
that approach and
never documented it on my site.

I ve been away from my
robot project for some
time due to health and family things and I try to look in on
what s happening on
the B9 list now and then so I occasionally chime in. Of
course this topic
is close to home for me and we still don t have a perfect
answer to treads that
are drivable and have the B9 look . And of course the
problematic design
issues that exist with that approach (square slots in a belt
driven from inside
circumference around a sprocket is all wrong as the slots
close up as they bend
around a sprocket-which is why you do not find belts made
this way).
Anyway he challenge is the fun, for me at least and trying
to keep the budget
low at the same time. And I like to make things from
scratch, not always the
best solution but been a lot of fun.

Bob G.
B9-0017

From: mailto:B9Builders@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, January 22, 2016 11:15 PM
To: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [B9Builders] home made treads and
wheels

Hey anyone make their own wheels and treads that work ?

Chris

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Bob Greiner laptop · Post by **Bob Greiner laptop** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:40 pm

I have a couple old videos of Jim W s mobile treadsection and how he had it setup that he posted several years ago. He used timing type belts which work great but like my tire belts don t have the B9 look, although they re not objectionable to me and they do resolve that issue of how a cogged belt should operate around a sprocket. I believe Jim also built stainless steel radar section at one time too which I probably have pics of too. He did some excellent work with the B9!! Bob G. B9-0017 From: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 9:59 AM To: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [B9Builders] home made treads and wheels
The guy I know is Jim W. over in Sussex WI. He's a very busy guy that I only met once a few years ago when I started building my B9. A friend took me over to his house to see his various collections, B9 and other robots. Wow! what a collection this guy has! I was in heaven all evening. Anyway, He's a follow B9 Builders Club member (B9-0033) but has drifted away towards other interests and paths. His awesome motorized B9 is very close to being finished and he told me that evening that we really wanted to get back to work on his B9 to finish it someday. I've lost track of him sense and don't know what he's done to his B9, if anything. I do know a little something about Kevlar and based on what I read. I was doing research on what type of synthetic cable to use on my B9 Arm retraction platform and my first thought was Kevlar cable. I found some siprising things about it and decided not to use it. I don't know if it would be the right material to use in tread belts. However I could be wrong. Seems that Kevlar tends to fatigue, creep and fail. Here's just a little peace of info I found on this issue:

The tensile, creep and tension-tension fatigue properties of Kevlar-49 fibre (formerly known as PRD-49) have been determined. The fracture morphology of the fibre has been examined and is shown to be complex due to considerable splitting. The fibre quickly stabilizes under a steady load but failure due to creep can occur when it is loaded very near to its simple tensile breaking load. Kevlar-49 has been found to fail by fatigue, and its fatigue lifetime is dependent on the amplitude of the applied oscillatory load as well as the maximum load to which the fibre is cycled.

Anyway, a better fiber to use would be Vectran. It's amazing stuff and I ended using it in my arm retraction platform. Here's the info on it: Vectran is a high-performance multifilament yarn spun from liquid crystal polymer (LCP). Vectran is the only commercially available melt spun LCP fiber in the world. Vectran fiber exhibits exceptional strength and rigidity. Pound for pound Vectran fiber is five times stronger than steel and ten times stronger than aluminum. These unique properties characterize Vectran :

High strength and modulus

Excellent creep resistance

High abrasion resistance

Excellent flex/fold characteristics

Minimal moisture absorption

Excellent chemical resistance

Low coefficient of thermal expansion (CTE)

High dielectric strength

Outstanding cut resistance

Excellent property retention at high/low temperatures

Outstanding vibration damping characteristics

High impact resistance

I found all sorts of cable made with Vectran. I ended up using 3/32" "Shine Line". It a synthetic cable with a covered Vectran fiber core. It's as flexible as string and I have a lot of trouble trying to cut it with wire cutters. However a sharp knife or edge will slowly sever it but you cant pull it apart even when it gets down to only a few strands holding. I have it wound tightly on a pulley and it's pulled my heavy B9 arm in and out of the torso hundreds of times with no stretch at all. I'm blown away by this stuff. Here is the cable I used that I bought on Amazon: Shine Line

Anyway, as far as adding reinforcement to out B9 tread belts; there may not be a lot of difference between using Kevlar and Vectran. The load put on the belts may be within Kevlar's tolerances. However if given a choice I'd use Vectran. Hope this helps, Dave Schulpius On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 9:05 AM, toblueiis toblueiis@yahoo.com [B9Builders] wrote:
Hello Dave,

That sounds interesting about the guy making his belts out of Harley fan belts. Today with kevlar reinforced belts, that would make a nice, non stretchable belt. I was just looking at some bike tires with kevlar at the store, sold in a box. I was thinking that it would be nice if they could be used in making poured belts, where this portion of the tire was embedded in the pour for strength. Was wondering how well they would bond together.

Do you have any more info on the Harley guy's belts? Maybe he will see this thread and chime in.

thanks,

David M.

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 1/23/16, David Schulpius dschulpius@wi.rr.com [B9Builders] wrote:

Subject: Re: [B9Builders] home made treads and wheels
To: "Tobor001@aol.com [B9Builders]"
Date: Saturday, January 23, 2016, 8:55 AM

Hi Chris,
Are you going to be making your
robot mobile or static? Before I start I need to say I have
a static B9 and don't have plans to have him roaming
around the house or yard. I did however get good set of
machined wheels from a club vendor but opted for a set of
low cost but high quality treads that are not looped. I just
clamped them together where it cant be seen. Also I used
shoulder bolts and sleeves instead of bearings and
axles.
Check the Vendors area over on our
web site for some good choices on available tread section.
We have three that offer excellent treads. Barton and Huber
offer the non-continuous that need to be clamped and
Reinbrecht offers the continuous belt. Several others do the
wheels but usually only do runs when enough people want
them. They are Barton, Sockwell and Considine. Their
wheels are expensive but worth every penny and oh so cool.
Here's a link to the vendor list:
http://www.b9robotbuildersclub.com/pub/builders/scrapbooks.html

If you don't plan to motorize
the treads and are on a budget you don't have to make
the wheels and tread tank tread quality and save some money.
Make these part yourself and save. Look through the members
web sites and scrapbooks listed over on our website. There
are several people that show how they made their own wheels
and treads that are listed with links. I know a guy that
works at Harley Davidson that made his treads out of Harley
fan belts. They looked great and are very strong. I know
other builders that made the wheels out of wood. I've
seen others make them out of pvc plastic discs and pipe.
Still others went to a machine shop and had nice aluminum
ones made for them. There are some real nice Blueprints for
the wheels and tread belts on our website here:
http://www.b9robotbuildersclub.com/tools/protected/reference/blueprints.html

Take some time and research what
others have done. Our links to other members builds is a
good way to get ideas and tips:
http://www.b9robotbuildersclub.com/pub/builders/membersites.html

http://www.b9robotbuildersclub.com/pub/builders/scrapbooks.html

It's your robot and wallet. You
can go any way your money, talent and imagination leads
you.
Just have fun, Dave Schulpius
On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at
11:15 PM, christopher_balke@yahoo.com
[B9Builders]
wrote:

Hey anyone make their own wheels and treads that
work ?

Chris

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Bob Greiner laptop · Post by **Bob Greiner laptop** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:13 pm

Attachments :

[url=file:///D:\B9YAHOO\attachments\\JWTreadMech2.MPG]JWTreadMech2.MPG[/url]

[url=file:///D:\B9YAHOO\attachments\\JWTreadMech1.MPG]JWTreadMech1.MPG[/url]

Attached are JW s treadsection videos. (And Jim Ws radar was an aluminum one, not stainless.) Bob G. B9-0017 From: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 11:40 AM To: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [B9Builders] home made treads and wheels
I have a couple old videos of Jim W s mobile treadsection and how he had it setup that he posted several years ago. He used timing type belts which work great but like my tire belts don t have the B9 look, although they re not objectionable to me and they do resolve that issue of how a cogged belt should operate around a sprocket. I believe Jim also built stainless steel radar section at one time too which I probably have pics of too. He did some excellent work with the B9!! Bob G. B9-0017 From: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 9:59 AM To: B9Builders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [B9Builders] home made treads and wheels The guy I know is Jim W. over in Sussex WI. He's a very busy guy that I only met once a few years ago when I started building my B9. A friend took me over to his house to see his various collections, B9 and other robots. Wow! what a collection this guy has! I was in heaven all evening. Anyway, He's a follow B9 Builders Club member (B9-0033) but has drifted away towards other interests and paths. His awesome motorized B9 is very close to being finished and he told me that evening that we really wanted to get back to work on his B9 to finish it someday. I've lost track of him sense and don't know what he's done to his B9, if anything. I do know a little something about Kevlar and based on what I read. I was doing research on what type of synthetic cable to use on my B9 Arm retraction platform and my first thought was Kevlar cable. I found some siprising things about it and decided not to use it. I don't know if it would be the right material to use in tread belts. However I could be wrong. Seems that Kevlar tends to fatigue, creep and fail. Here's just a little peace of info I found on this issue:

The tensile, creep and tension-tension fatigue properties of Kevlar-49 fibre (formerly known as PRD-49) have been determined. The fracture morphology of the fibre has been examined and is shown to be complex due to considerable splitting. The fibre quickly stabilizes under a steady load but failure due to creep can occur when it is loaded very near to its simple tensile breaking load. Kevlar-49 has been found to fail by fatigue, and its fatigue lifetime is dependent on the amplitude of the applied oscillatory load as well as the maximum load to which the fibre is cycled.

Anyway, a better fiber to use would be Vectran. It's amazing stuff and I ended using it in my arm retraction platform. Here's the info on it: Vectran is a high-performance multifilament yarn spun from liquid crystal polymer (LCP). Vectran is the only commercially available melt spun LCP fiber in the world. Vectran fiber exhibits exceptional strength and rigidity. Pound for pound Vectran fiber is five times stronger than steel and ten times stronger than aluminum. These unique properties characterize Vectran :

High strength and modulus

Excellent creep resistance

High abrasion resistance

Excellent flex/fold characteristics

Minimal moisture absorption

Excellent chemical resistance

Low coefficient of thermal expansion (CTE)

High dielectric strength

Outstanding cut resistance

Excellent property retention at high/low temperatures

Outstanding vibration damping characteristics

High impact resistance

I found all sorts of cable made with Vectran. I ended up using 3/32" "Shine Line". It a synthetic cable with a covered Vectran fiber core. It's as flexible as string and I have a lot of trouble trying to cut it with wire cutters. However a sharp knife or edge will slowly sever it but you cant pull it apart even when it gets down to only a few strands holding. I have it wound tightly on a pulley and it's pulled my heavy B9 arm in and out of the torso hundreds of times with no stretch at all. I'm blown away by this stuff. Here is the cable I used that I bought on Amazon: Shine Line

Anyway, as far as adding reinforcement to out B9 tread belts; there may not be a lot of difference between using Kevlar and Vectran. The load put on the belts may be within Kevlar's tolerances. However if given a choice I'd use Vectran. Hope this helps, Dave Schulpius On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 9:05 AM, toblueiis toblueiis@yahoo.com [B9Builders] wrote:
Hello Dave,

That sounds interesting about the guy making his belts out of Harley fan belts. Today with kevlar reinforced belts, that would make a nice, non stretchable belt. I was just looking at some bike tires with kevlar at the store, sold in a box. I was thinking that it would be nice if they could be used in making poured belts, where this portion of the tire was embedded in the pour for strength. Was wondering how well they would bond together.

Do you have any more info on the Harley guy's belts? Maybe he will see this thread and chime in.

thanks,

David M.

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 1/23/16, David Schulpius dschulpius@wi.rr.com [B9Builders] wrote:

Subject: Re: [B9Builders] home made treads and wheels
To: "Tobor001@aol.com [B9Builders]"
Date: Saturday, January 23, 2016, 8:55 AM

Hi Chris,
Are you going to be making your
robot mobile or static? Before I start I need to say I have
a static B9 and don't have plans to have him roaming
around the house or yard. I did however get good set of
machined wheels from a club vendor but opted for a set of
low cost but high quality treads that are not looped. I just
clamped them together where it cant be seen. Also I used
shoulder bolts and sleeves instead of bearings and
axles.
Check the Vendors area over on our
web site for some good choices on available tread section.
We have three that offer excellent treads. Barton and Huber
offer the non-continuous that need to be clamped and
Reinbrecht offers the continuous belt. Several others do the
wheels but usually only do runs when enough people want
them. They are Barton, Sockwell and Considine. Their
wheels are expensive but worth every penny and oh so cool.
Here's a link to the vendor list:
http://www.b9robotbuildersclub.com/pub/builders/scrapbooks.html

If you don't plan to motorize
the treads and are on a budget you don't have to make
the wheels and tread tank tread quality and save some money.
Make these part yourself and save. Look through the members
web sites and scrapbooks listed over on our website. There
are several people that show how they made their own wheels
and treads that are listed with links. I know a guy that
works at Harley Davidson that made his treads out of Harley
fan belts. They looked great and are very strong. I know
other builders that made the wheels out of wood. I've
seen others make them out of pvc plastic discs and pipe.
Still others went to a machine shop and had nice aluminum
ones made for them. There are some real nice Blueprints for
the wheels and tread belts on our website here:
http://www.b9robotbuildersclub.com/tools/protected/reference/blueprints.html

Take some time and research what
others have done. Our links to other members builds is a
good way to get ideas and tips:
http://www.b9robotbuildersclub.com/pub/builders/membersites.html

http://www.b9robotbuildersclub.com/pub/builders/scrapbooks.html

It's your robot and wallet. You
can go any way your money, talent and imagination leads
you.
Just have fun, Dave Schulpius
On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at
11:15 PM, christopher_balke@yahoo.com
[B9Builders]
wrote:

Hey anyone make their own wheels and treads that
work ?

Chris

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#yiv2891498497

Wilsons Sandbox